General Cube Philosophy: Principles Of Anti-EDH Feminist Design

Hello Riptide Cubers,

Please bear with me while I explain this ridiculous title.

@lsclr: I keep ending up playing against women who apologize for removing my creatures and swinging at me.
@lsclr: this just makes me really sad.
@lsclr: of course my problem might actually be with women, or rather with the ways that women get raised etc. but that is outside the scope of problems solvable via cube.

@Aston: well sure, with that attitude

@lsclr: frankly I'm not good enough at magic to make the feminist cube that saves women.

but perhaps, with your help...

well. as somebody who has been lurking these forums for like, ten years now (I posted exactly once in 2018, to head off an argument) I have come to you in my hour of need - for I find myself surrounded by Commander Players.

YOU HAVE ALL FORGOTTEN THE TASTE OF DEATH
FEEBLE PRETENDER KINGS OF A FALSE WORLD KNOW THIS,
I WILL FINALLY HAVE THE MEASURE OF YOU
THE TIME HAS COME TO SEE YOU AS YOU ARE
REDOLENT IN YOUR EXCESSES
FEEBLE AND PATHETIC IN YOUR POWER
WITHERED AND IMPOTENT
WRUNG OUT OF THE PURITY OF VIOLENCE

and so forth.

here is my manifesto: Commander Magic Must Die. I’m not above the occasional game of commander but we have to correct course. look at all this battlecruiser nonsense.

this is not my first cube. I moved in with a friend who's been playing magic since the 90s over quarantine. we had a lot of spare time and she asked me to put a cube together. so I built a fun little combo-ey cube: green ninjas, pyromancer assault; lots of +1/+1 counters because people love scaling and proliferate and threats that grow make using early removal more thought provoking. I taught my girlfriend how to play magic with that cube and it's been great fun.
it actually turns out that magic is pretty mainstream among my specific age/class/"autism" demographic. which is great! a surprising number of her gay friends turn out to play, and the other day a couple on the train who overheard us yapping were delighted to find some fellow players. this isn't even counting my excellent nearby lgs's. what fun! oh! I keep asking; what formats do you play!

commander. commander. commander. the woman on the train tried commander with a precon and had a horrible time against a pod full of people who had tuned their decks for years; she said she really liked jumpstart actually. I keep ending up playing against women who apologize for removing my creatures and swinging at me. No, I try to tell them; that is the point of the game! You are supposed to Get Me! If you Get Me in a sufficently cool way, I will be thrilled! we are to be Villain unto each other and grow and learn in the being!

and yet.
I name two culprits for this behavior: women are raised to prioritize other's feelings over their own and apologize all the time, and commander promotes styles of play that aggro would otherwise keep in check. I like social games and scheming alliances quite a bit, and I'd like to think I'm pretty good at those! but the commander board stall entente gets so so old.

now, in order to get women to attack and play to win, we could re-flavor the game so that creatures are trying to negotiate up to 20 influence rather than attack down from 20 life. we could wait until we live in a feminist utopia where women are no longer constantly holding themselves back.

or, and this is the option that intrigues me:

maybe together,
we could build

the feminist cube that saves women.

if women are scared of attacking, we’ll give them the tools! creatures that Can’t Block and Attack Each Turn if Able; fliers and unblockables, creatures with attack and player damage triggers, cards like Goblin Diplomats for board manipulation; death triggers like Scuttling Doom Engine, the Monarch mechanic. if you haven’t played commander with the Monarch in play represented by a plastic tiara on the wearer, you’re missing out! imagine how much fun that would be without having to play commander!

(commander is fine but we need to play different magic sometimes. please)

LET IT BE KNOWN: games should go fast, and aggro must be strong. the cube should support multiple aggro decks. going for the throat is a priority. somebody needs to teach edh players that magic the gathering is about counting to 20, not just building little machines. somebody needs to teach women the killing instinct. be very careful with token creatures.

LET IT BE KNOWN: resource denial, hand destruction, and counterspells are part of the game! I don't know if I want to include armageddon but if I did it would be perfectly morally defensible! shorter games sting less to lose! kick the struts out from under Villain’s ridiculous clockwork dawdling-machine! cards like thoughtseize and cabal therapy are incredibly fun and skill-testing.

LET IT BE KNOWN: multiple copies of cards = cool! squadron hawk, niche tribal supports, all those Hidden Agenda conspiracies. imagine a pool with three Elvish Archdruids. you can do so much with an unsummon - and if you have one in your deck, Villain using one on you doesn’t feel so unfair. plus people don't have to read the card every dang time if they know what it does. I don't want to make games too samey but 100 card singleton is more variance than I want. this pushes me towards multiple copies of individual cards that enable multiple different play patterns.

LET IT BE KNOWN: life pay and discard are cool and contribute to games ending quickly. lifegain should be very specifically rationed. oh my god bob is <4$ now???? imagine a cube with like three of him!

LET IT BE KNOWN: bluffing is fun! counterspells, instant speed removal, and combat tricks are fun! these things are to be treasured!

LET IT BE KNOWN: attacking should be rewarded. if women are scared of attacking, we’ll give them the tools! Creatures that Can’t Block and Attack Each Turn if Able; fliers and unblockables, creatures with attack and player damage triggers, cards like Goblin Diplomats for board manipulation to force things through; carefully-priced wraths to break board stalls.

LET IT BE KNOWN: abilities should be weird and cool and comparatively uncomplicated, when possible. players should be assumed to know the basic rules. cards that do things like give fliers +1+1 plug into keywords in neat ways; Abyssal Persecutor and Platinum Angel are both cool and easy to understand, as is Laboratory Maniac.

LET IT BE KNOWN: ideally, and I know this is a big ask, such a cube should be bringable to/replace edh nights. I'm thinking 4 or so colors because I’m used to 4-6 players and 4 players 5 colors always feels weird. format beyond this is extremely malleable: bring your best balduvian trading post concepts. maybe you think this should be like, build two 15 card decks out of sealed pools or that like seven card format? that jason waddell was talking about like five years ago? maybe you think this should be some unholy jumpstart draft hybrid. as long as it advances the interests of women, I am willing to hear you out.

I welcome your commentary, your card suggestions, and your contributions. Help me kill EDH and save women.

(mods, if you feel this thread belongs in Cube Blogs feel free to move it. But because it's just a set of design ideas at this point - and discussion-generating ones at that, I hope, I figured putting it here would be best.)
 
a friend who's been playing magic since the 90s over quarantine. we had a lot of spare time and she asked me to put a cube together.
I taught my girlfriend how to play magic with that cube and it's been great fun.
You expect us to believe that you know two women?
it actually turns out that magic is pretty mainstream among my specific age/class/"autism" demographic.
Oh. We're well aware. I showed my post history to my doctor and got a diagnosis on the spot.
commander. commander. commander.
2027 release schedule be like
I name two culprits for this behavior: women are raised to prioritize other's feelings over their own and apologize all the time, and commander promotes styles of play that aggro would otherwise keep in check.
Genuinely interesting theory. Could probably do a study on something along these lines factoring in a history of competitive sports at younger ages and other upbringing aspects.
LET IT BE KNOWN:
All of this section sounds like most cubes. I think people play Commander because it's so accessible. Give them an alternative and see what happens!

Maybe add some pink cards with flowers on them to appeal to womans <3 <3 <3 ~*~*~
 
I adore the idea and this project and I will try to contribute something later. Now I have to get the baby to nap.

Maybe add some pink cards with flowers on them to appeal to womans <3 <3 <3 ~*~*~
Yeah, let's put some sexist stereotypes into the feminist cube :rolleyes:
 
You expect us to believe that you know two women?
I know at least three women.

Maybe add some pink cards with flowers on them to appeal to womans <3 <3 <3 ~*~*~
maybe consider the myriad subtle ways in which women are made unwelcome. did anybody ever tell you the story behind ghazban ogress?
there are a lot of women out there in the world, and some of them even play magic the gathering. at least three of them, even.
 
multiple copies of cards = cool!
Doubling up (or more) on Human / Werewolves Tribal pieces could be good. I still run Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant at 1080 but Werewolves were fun even in Singleton when I was at 540.



Bant Humans / Werewolves can encourage a Tempo-oriented aggro. Stuff like Standstill / Remand is cool here, and I think certain pieces like Mayor of Avabruck and Nightpack Ambusher could be really good with redundancy.

attacking should be rewarded
It might not be the most interesting, but I think 'Haste' is my favorite implementation of this. As a simple keyword it is one of my favorite motivators to just swing. So much so that when I play a Haste creature into a board where immediately attacking is ill-advised, I actually find myself feeling deeply upset that I can't just attack lol.

There are some classics that are just great like Goblin Guide, which would get mean with multiple copies. But then there is the Fires of Yavimaya category of Haste enablers. I love supporting Fires and will probably never cube without it, 2 of my absolute favorite sign-posts / supports would be:



Both which encourage attacking quickly.

I guess thinking of Human / Werewolves, some of the tribal support on the top-end play really well with 'Fires' as well:

 
I've observed this too, and the sore losers (often men who expected to beat the woman at the table) make that woman feel bad about winning and bad about competition in general. This goes beyond Magic and beyond women - all sorts of folks have had the joy of competition poisoned for them by sore losers and disrespectful winners. I don't have insight into how to build the cube. But I repeat a lot that competition is a gift we give each other, and we need to build a culture of appreciating that gift.

Team draft could maybe help people who feel bad competing for personal glory and denying everyone else that glory - now you're competing for your teammates, and they're counting on you, so ATTACK!!
 
I wonder if you can include cards that are so fun to swing with that getting your opponent to zero is actually secondary to the joy of the card itself.

Some EDH cards like that:
, ,

Modern Goryos, hitting them just so i can pay another 7 life for cards:


In that same vein, "we would BOTH gladly die to draw another card":
 
CARDS I AM EXCITED ABOUT AND AM CONSIDERING DOUBLING UP ON


zero power, two abilities, three 1/1s that can't be used to block. no downside to attacking or blocking, unless a combat trick, disfigure, or small red removal changes the equation. death and anthem and etb synergies. imagine turning one of those three warriors into a ninja. I have. I have imagined it.

in a world where voice of victory isn't almost 20$ a pop these might be those. but if wizards actually decided to get secondary market prices for standard under control, well, I wouldn't be trying to slay EDH. for women.


obviously. how could you not. it's white remand. it's so much tempo and it even replaces itself. an entire turn, minus combat step, for two mana, unless they just cast it again, which maybe they can. even with all those conditions I listed this is still so simple and clean: pure time.


stone cold classic. resets etbs, draws a card, puts the fear of god into Villainess. or the fear of ninjas at least. stick auras, counters, or equipment on it (have you considered: double strike?); proclaim smugly that ah ah ah! it was actually a ninja this whole time! luckily Kamigawa 2 has spread ninjas everywhere but red - they feel less bad if you know they're in the cube somewhere, and if you have some of your own. what if they got support in red though? Dash creatures? Ogre Battledriver?


she wants to get strong, she wants to attack, she wants to perpetrate horrific war-crimes of settler colonialism. well, unless you get the alt art where she does the fire circle things that the secret mesoamerican pacifist firebenders do, but that one doesn't spell Firebending out, so that's right out. war crimes it is.

this might be a bit complex but we can throw a few more firebending cards in there, and reasonable fast mana feels so so good.


an extra +1/+1 counter or two or three or more, even, if you build for it, to go with your lightning bolt. have some loyalty. it's on the house (since you're overpaying anyways). clean and low on text. maybe I should just put lightning strikes in but proliferate is such a joyful mechanic to anybody with a basic understanding of magic.

also: it occurs to me however belatedly that planeswalkers rarely survive in edh due to the number of combat steps, and that Liliana of the Veil is now like five dollars? and scales very well to her environment, and votes for small games???
 
What if we made it an EDH 1vs1 cube (Duel Commander, 20 life, no command damage rule), with cards like:

(Make most commanders at 1-3 mana, and very very few at 4 or 5 mana)
 
What if we made it an EDH 1vs1 cube (Duel Commander, 20 life, no command damage rule), with cards like:
Ash, Party Crasher Aphelia, viper's whisper Rhonas the Indomitable
(Make most commanders at 1-3 mana, and very very few at 4 or 5 mana)
I'm specifically trying to promote kinds of Magic gameplay that Commander has crowded out. I'm in favor of splashing colors, small fast games, aggro, dying to paying too much of your own life, and resource denial. and women of course.

it's true that you could splash in EDH 20 life 1v1 but that's yet another thing to explain. Consider also that 1v1 is very poorly adapted to drafting; you get your colors and that's it. what do commanders add to a format like that? if what you meant was that games are played 1v1 and the cube is drafted in a larger group, consider the extra cognitive load on the cube curator (me) of having to select that many small legendary creatures in 2-3 colors and supporting each more specifically, and of players on trying to make sure their colors have appropriate commander options. no thanks. those three cards, and commanders in general, tend to be really wordy, and I like my cards clean. also again I am specifically trying to do away with Commander gameplay and adding commanders to a format that is specifically designed to not have them is like exactly the opposite of that.

I guess what I'm asking, @TekLazar, is this:
how does your proposal oppose EDH/support women?
 
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Bant Humans / Werewolves can encourage a Tempo-oriented aggro. Stuff like Standstill / Remand is cool here, and I think certain pieces like Mayor of Avabruck and Nightpack Ambusher could be really good with redundancy.


It might not be the most interesting, but I think 'Haste' is my favorite implementation of this. As a simple keyword it is one of my favorite motivators to just swing. So much so that when I play a Haste creature into a board where immediately attacking is ill-advised, I actually find myself feeling deeply upset that I can't just attack lol.

There are some classics that are just great like Goblin Guide, which would get mean with multiple copies. But then there is the Fires of Yavimaya category of Haste enablers. I love supporting Fires and will probably never cube without it, 2 of my absolute favorite sign-posts / supports would be:

I love Haste; Standstill is like a less expensive less backbreaking Armaggeddon ie pretty dang cool. Double-sided cards are neat but a real pain to draft with sleeved - I don't want people to have to take them out and flip them over just to see what they do (otherwise, well, I might get high on my own supply and start sticking Kamigawa Flip Sagas in there.

now this is a riplab thread. well done lsclr
thank you safra. your gonzo cube update logs and general unrepentance have influenced me more than you know.

I wonder if you can include cards that are so fun to swing with that getting your opponent to zero is actually secondary to the joy of the card itself.

Some EDH cards like that:
, ,

Modern Goryos, hitting them just so i can pay another 7 life for cards:


In that same vein, "we would BOTH gladly die to draw another card":
Ancient Copper Dragon is one hundred actual dollars unless I proxy; I refuse to play Ninja Turtles on principle; Winota has soooo much text. Even if the only actual card I like here is Duskmantle Seer (don't get me wrong I love Griselbrand but I don't know that this is his place), I really like your thought process. Minion of The Mighty, Sneak or Meek Attack, Kalonian Hydra, Etali, Primal Storm, Lannery Storm, Karlach, Fury of Avernus...
 
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