Tribal zombie decks have proved to be fun, well integrated, powerful and most importantly still fun.
What other tribes could be awesome in cube and not totally stupid?
What other tribes could be awesome in cube and not totally stupid?
General Cube Tribal
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
VibeBox
Contributor
an earlier iteration of my cube supported wizards. i think the cards are there, and ironically riptide lab is quite good. there's a reason the lab tore it up with the lorwyn crew in old extended for a while.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Elementals! Goblins and Wizards are both pretty interesting as well.
The thing that's the coolest about zombies is how they interact with pox, sacrifice, and recursion themes. In other words, they open up new strategies or ways to play.I think a lot of tribal is too lord-based though, too based on power/toughness boosts. In my opinion, tribes are the coolest when you are rewarded for playing a lot of tribal members by being able to execute a powerful but niche strategy.
Wizards has some potential with morph and tricks, and elves have some potential to open up ramp, number of creatures matters, and so forth. I thought elementals and shamans were cool, but kind of shallow. While not really a "tribe" per se, I think Astral Slide could be another Birthing Pod-esque card to think about designing around. Not sure what tribe has the most cycling and etb creatures, but I'm thinking wizards might fit the bill here.
Wizards has some potential with morph and tricks, and elves have some potential to open up ramp, number of creatures matters, and so forth. I thought elementals and shamans were cool, but kind of shallow. While not really a "tribe" per se, I think Astral Slide could be another Birthing Pod-esque card to think about designing around. Not sure what tribe has the most cycling and etb creatures, but I'm thinking wizards might fit the bill here.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Personal Favorite: Rebels. Never got a chance to play with these guys, gives white an interesting toolbox/fish element.
If only what you were searching up were more up to snuff.
Also goblins isn't far form being a sweet cube archetype: there's a lot of random red beater guys who just happen to be goblins, and cards like Seige Gang Commander and Krenko, Mob Boss are already sweet technical tribal goblin cards.
From there, it's not too much of a leap to tweak the random RDW cards to include more goblins and go deep with Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Warcheif, Goblin Cheiftan, Goblin Ringleader etc
Elves isn't far off being playable either, with cards like elvish archdruid and imperious perfect being playable moslty on their own, and what with all the random mana elves running around, it could be a thing. Not sure what direction is worth going with this tribe though. Heratige Druid is probably going too deep.
If only what you were searching up were more up to snuff.
Also goblins isn't far form being a sweet cube archetype: there's a lot of random red beater guys who just happen to be goblins, and cards like Seige Gang Commander and Krenko, Mob Boss are already sweet technical tribal goblin cards.
From there, it's not too much of a leap to tweak the random RDW cards to include more goblins and go deep with Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Warcheif, Goblin Cheiftan, Goblin Ringleader etc
Elves isn't far off being playable either, with cards like elvish archdruid and imperious perfect being playable moslty on their own, and what with all the random mana elves running around, it could be a thing. Not sure what direction is worth going with this tribe though. Heratige Druid is probably going too deep.
One of my personal favorites are rogues. Many of them are evasive, and prowling always generates some value.
I'm surprised to say that humans are also an interesting tribe that has been getting quite a bit of support. And there are a large enough of them in a lot of cube lists I've seen.
I'm surprised to say that humans are also an interesting tribe that has been getting quite a bit of support. And there are a large enough of them in a lot of cube lists I've seen.
CML
Contributor
meh. tribal in cube is so often half-baked and linear that i am reflexively not a fan. that being said, humans are sweet since they take no work to support -- like a dedicated zombie section (the most interesting tribe, synergy-wise, and one that also fills the gap of 'black creatures') will be half as big as an incidental human one. i feel more cubes should therefore contain champion of the parish and mayor of avabruck.
jason, is it possible to do zombies well without singleton'ing?
i could see elves and goblins too in addition to y'all's interesting suggestions of wizards, rogues, elementals -- what would tribal sections for these cards look like, and how would they fit into cubes?
i think an interesting sub-discussion here could be 'tribal cards that don't need explicit tribal support' -- krenko, mob boss, imperious perfect, bloodline keeper as possible points of departure
jason, is it possible to do zombies well without singleton'ing?
i could see elves and goblins too in addition to y'all's interesting suggestions of wizards, rogues, elementals -- what would tribal sections for these cards look like, and how would they fit into cubes?
i think an interesting sub-discussion here could be 'tribal cards that don't need explicit tribal support' -- krenko, mob boss, imperious perfect, bloodline keeper as possible points of departure
Well, Zombies without breaking singleton is just weak sacrifice/recursion stuff. The only card I run that cares about Zombies is Gravecrawler (4x, admitedly). Jim hit the head on the interesting part of it though. They give you a deck that performs differently (lots of play / interaction), rather than just "lord tribal". Bloodghast works perfectly in it despite not being a Zombie. Maybe Vampire tribal would be cool.
Faeries were an interesting, albeit overpowered, tribe because they do unique effects with each other.
Faeries were an interesting, albeit overpowered, tribe because they do unique effects with each other.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
One thing I remember from Andy Cooperfaus is the idea of having an "undead" tribe which erratta's zombies and vampries to be a single tribe, and have them affect each other.
Undead Noctornus? Captivating Undead? Undead warchief? wait...
Yeah, I've seen that errata before, but... eh. I'm not against it, but don't find it strictly necessary either. Creature type errata gives a lot of interesting options (e.g. Rebels), but I wonder if there's a certain point where you're not just better served by entirely custom cards.
I think the idea of zombies arose from wanting to make black more interesting/better. Maybe that's a place to start? What other colors could use the help in your cube? Not necessarily power-wise, but what color(s) could be more interesting?
CML
Contributor
jim -- yeah, the thing is that black in cube is lacking in versatility (it kills dudes and reanimates) so then any attempts to make it a more aggressive color are going to result in absurdities like gravecrawler-griselbrand.dec and those decks result in the silly fallacy that 'black is bad in cube.' i see jason's recursion as an attempt to fix this problem. my own solution (which has its problems) is to make multicolor aggro more of a thing
most attempts to diversify a color end up blowin' it. think of green aggro playing jungle lion, white aggro playing savannah lions, etc. it occurs to me that my giant gold section is my answer to these dumb gimmicks, so that each color can have a strong identity and also jive with the other colors.
out of all the color themes i've considered, Dom's 'rethinking red' and a U tempo section with delver, gush, daze etc. are of most interest to me
most attempts to diversify a color end up blowin' it. think of green aggro playing jungle lion, white aggro playing savannah lions, etc. it occurs to me that my giant gold section is my answer to these dumb gimmicks, so that each color can have a strong identity and also jive with the other colors.
out of all the color themes i've considered, Dom's 'rethinking red' and a U tempo section with delver, gush, daze etc. are of most interest to me
Other than human tribal, I think it's pretty well established at this point that supporting other tribes is a bit of a stretch. I'm not quite ready to go down the full blown custom cards route yet, but creature type errata might be a halfway point.
Aside from changing creature types, I've been thinking about creature type crossovers. Vampire + Zombie is the obvious one, but are there others that might make sense?
Aside from changing creature types, I've been thinking about creature type crossovers. Vampire + Zombie is the obvious one, but are there others that might make sense?
Laz
Developer
Spellstutter might be ok with that change to play off of Wizards (ok, and you made an effort to push Wizard numbers).
I mean, Snapcaster Mage is an obvious one that plays in a similar deck to Spellstutter. Ditto something like Augur of Bolas or Delver of Secrets.
That said there are mostly-playable to completely playable Wizards through colours outside of Blue, for instance:
Then you can put Riptide Laboratory in the ULD, so no one can mistake what you are doing.
I mean, Snapcaster Mage is an obvious one that plays in a similar deck to Spellstutter. Ditto something like Augur of Bolas or Delver of Secrets.
That said there are mostly-playable to completely playable Wizards through colours outside of Blue, for instance:
Then you can put Riptide Laboratory in the ULD, so no one can mistake what you are doing.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
The main problem with Wizards is that there's only one card that really cares about them. I mean, that's fine, but it's not a lot.
Ideally "tribal" in cube consists of cards that are capable on their own, with supplemental tribal interactions that have actual play to them. Humans and Zombies are the only things that have really sufficed so far, with Vampires probably being workable at lower power levels.
Goblins need some errata and (ideally) more substantial cross-color support.
Ideally "tribal" in cube consists of cards that are capable on their own, with supplemental tribal interactions that have actual play to them. Humans and Zombies are the only things that have really sufficed so far, with Vampires probably being workable at lower power levels.
Goblins need some errata and (ideally) more substantial cross-color support.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
You mean the famous Riptide Laboratory, no doubt. But there's also these quite playable cards, provided Wizards are supported well enough in your cube. Sage's Dousing especially is pretty good if you can turn it on.
I think there'd be need for some custom cards to make the tribe really shine though. Maybe give Lavamancer's Skill the Tribal treatment and tweak Mystic Retrieval to also retrieve Wizard cards and be cheaper?
Hmmm... Sage's Dousing is interesting.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I'm actually a little worried about how strong kalestria highborn would be with zombies
I don't actually run Carrion Feeder, and I'm only at two Gravecrawlers, so I think I'm at something like 7 zombies and 7 vampires. Is that even a high enough density to make Kalastria Highborn worthwhile?
Incidental wizards is pretty sweet, though it's kind of depressing that there aren't really any worthwhile faeries to run, so Spellstutter Sprite would be leaning pretty hard on the former category. It's gotta be better than Voidmage Prodigy, at least...! I'm sad that Insectile Aberration is not a wizard on his backside.
I'm interested in making warriors a thing, too, but unlike what Khans has led us to believe, it would seem that they've traditionally been in red. Maybe some kind of soldier/warrior crossover? Was there even a good soldier lord?
Incidental wizards is pretty sweet, though it's kind of depressing that there aren't really any worthwhile faeries to run, so Spellstutter Sprite would be leaning pretty hard on the former category. It's gotta be better than Voidmage Prodigy, at least...! I'm sad that Insectile Aberration is not a wizard on his backside.
I'm interested in making warriors a thing, too, but unlike what Khans has led us to believe, it would seem that they've traditionally been in red. Maybe some kind of soldier/warrior crossover? Was there even a good soldier lord?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Man I want war falcon to be good
