General Custom Cards: The Lab

Meltyman

Meltyman

Face said:
Even though my design didn't make it to the voting round, I'm still happy I participated. This post was mostly a rant post, but if you guys have any thoughts for the card, I'd be ecstatic to hear them.
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Jason would have put every card in the vote, but there was a limit by the forum how many choices you can have, so there had to be cuts
In my opinion it's fine that Jason picks which one is up to the vote, since he is initiating the whole contest.

My only complaint on your card was that it should make colorless mana.
I would try that land in my main cube since it could combo with Enduring Renewal etc :)

It might not be a good card for the contest, since it doesn't work on its own in my opinion though.
You need a lot of synergy for that land to do enough.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

I have a few concerns about the card:
  1. Being a land means it's usually impossible to get rid of. For a card that has such a big impact on the game, I'd say you need to give the opponent an out. If you have a few triggers resolved or set up, the only way to actually get rid of the effect is with Armageddon.
  2. It does too much for too little cost. It's a very strong card to run out on turn 4-5, when you don't need to be making a land drop in aggro anyway. Once it's in play, it provides an effect that snowballs in size, quickly becoming a major board presence.
  3. It plays through answers too easily. Concerned about spot removal? Spread out the counters on as many lands as you can spare, and one or two removal spells won't hurt that much. Worried about wraths? Don't be, because if you have a couple nonland creatures on the board, a wrath will multiply the number of Mortal Landscape counters you have, making the swing back probably lethal.
 
safra

safra

Who has dragons-matters cards for me (ideally controlling ones?) that don't suck without a dragon in hand? alternately, who has cheap dragons?
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Also: Flavors behind card draw, by color:
Blue: Just like I thought. I should write this down!
Red: Fuck it, I’ll try this
Green: This should work, right?
Black: DEMON! TELL ME HOW!
White: Someone in the village probably knows what I need right?
 
sigh

sigh

Chris Taylor said:
Also: Flavors behind card draw, by color:
Blue: Just like I thought. I should write this down!
Red: Fuck it, I’ll try this
Green: This should work, right?
Black: DEMON! TELL ME HOW!
White: Someone in the village probably knows what I need right?
Click to expand...

Isn't green more in tune with "this is what nature and my visions tell me"? Green card draw is very shamanistic and in tune with the natural. White's draw is spot on imo :p. "hmm. maybe the blacksmith will know what this is"
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
anotak

anotak

safra said:
Who has dragons-matters cards for me (ideally controlling ones?) that don't suck without a dragon in hand? alternately, who has cheap dragons?
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what exactly do you mean by controlling
but either way i did a few i guess idk

Draconic Intervention {1}{U}{U}
Instant
Choose one or both — Counter target spell; or you may search your library for a Dragon card, reveal it, and put it on top of your library.

Enraged Thunderwing {2}{R}{R}
Creature — Dragon
Flying, haste, prowess
4/3

Hungry Hatchling {1}{R}{R}
Creature — Dragon
Haste, flying
{B}, Sacrifice a creature: Put a +1/+1 counter on Hungry Hatchling.
{G}, Sacrifice a land: Put a +1/+1 counter on Hungry Hatchling.
1/1

Winged Echo {R}
Instant
Winged Echo deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Exile a Dragon card from your graveyard: Return Winged Echo from your graveyard to your hand.

Rough {1}{R}
Sorcery
Rough deals 2 damage to each creature without flying.
///
Ready {3}{R}
Sorcery
You may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield. That creature gains haste. Sacrifice that creature at the beginning of the next end step.

^ for this one obv based on rough // tumble, it's sort of an edge case since it doesn't SAY dragon on it but yeah that's what it is

Eastern Dragoncaller {G}
Creature — Human Shaman
When Eastern Dragoncaller enters the battlefield, search your library for a Dragon card, reveal it, and put it into your hand.
1/1
^
alternatively
"search your library for a creature with flying"
alternatively
"search your library for a creature with power 4 or more"
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

With Conspiracy 2 coming up, I'm kicking around ideas for conspiracies. How good would this be?

Room 641A
Conspiracy
Your opponents play with their hands revealed.

I can certainly think of some recent games it would have swung, but it doesn't directly affect anything. Too good? Not worth a slot?
 
safra

safra

psly4mne said:
With Conspiracy 2 coming up, I'm kicking around ideas for conspiracies. How good would this be?

Room 641A
Conspiracy
Your opponents play with their hands revealed.

I can certainly think of some recent games it would have swung, but it doesn't directly affect anything. Too good? Not worth a slot?
Click to expand...

I don't like it. Playing a bunch of Hearthstone lately has me cherishing Magic's mind games of instants and bluffing and tracking revealed info, and as a result of this Conspiracy I think games would be actively less fun. It's interesting, certainly powerful, but I don't think it's fun-max if that makes sense?

Here's a Conspiracy cycle I thought of a little while ago to get around our singleton limitations:
(ideally they'd be transform cards in clear sleeves so you'd just flip the Scheme over once you fill its conditions, no tracking)
Kolaghan's Scheme
The first two creature spells you cast each game gain Haste.

Dromoka's Scheme
Each game, the first time a creature an opponent controls dies, that player exiles their graveyard.
The first creature you control each game enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.

Ojutai's Scheme
The first instant spell you cast each game costs {1} less.
The first sorcery spell you cast each game costs {1} less.

Silumgar's Scheme
At the beginning of your first upkeep, put a Gold token onto the battlefield, then put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.

Atarka's Scheme
At the beginning of your first upkeep, add {R}{G} to your mana pool. This mana doesn't empty from your mana pool until end of turn.

PS what about this:
Omelet of Vigor
Whenever a land enters the battlefield tapped and under your control, untap it.

too strong?
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

safra said:
I don't like it. Playing a bunch of Hearthstone lately has me cherishing Magic's mind games of instants and bluffing and tracking revealed info, and as a result of this Conspiracy I think games would be actively less fun. It's interesting, certainly powerful, but I don't think it's fun-max if that makes sense?
Click to expand...
I agree, probably a bad idea.

Here's a Conspiracy cycle I thought of a little while ago to get around our singleton limitations:
(ideally they'd be transform cards in clear sleeves so you'd just flip the Scheme over once you fill its conditions, no tracking)
Kolaghan's Scheme
The first two creature spells you cast each game gain Haste.
Click to expand...
Pretty strong. Probably worth about 4 face damage in the average case, which is really good in aggro. Might be too much, but worth trying. I actually play the hidden agendas in my singleton cube and they are still high picks, so guaranteeing hitting them makes me a little nervous.

Dromoka's Scheme
Each game, the first time a creature an opponent controls dies, that player exiles their graveyard.
The first creature you control each game enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.
Click to expand...
Seems fine. The first creature limitation means you're not abusing persist or anything but the extra size is most relevant early.

Ojutai's Scheme
The first instant spell you cast each game costs {1} less.
The first sorcery spell you cast each game costs {1} less.
Click to expand...
This one is a little harder to use, simply because the value is lost if you cast spells without generic costs first. That might restrict your deckbuilding a little, but the payoff is pretty good. Probably fair.

Silumgar's Scheme
At the beginning of your first upkeep, put a Gold token onto the battlefield, then put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.
Click to expand...
This is pretty similar to a custom in my cube (yes, I've been playing a lot of Hearthstone too), which has been a moderately high pick for control and midrange. I think getting the coin on the play would lead to a few too many runaway board positions, but it might be okay.

Atarka's Scheme
At the beginning of your first upkeep, add {R}{G} to your mana pool. This mana doesn't empty from your mana pool until end of turn.
Click to expand...
Just looks busted. This is a card I would consider taking over Lotus / Time Walk.

PS what about this:
Omelet of Vigor
Whenever a land enters the battlefield tapped and under your control, untap it.

too strong?
Click to expand...
Seems fine to me, if narrow. There aren't that many cards that would trigger this at all, and the bounce lands have fallen out of favor as far as I know. Turning your manlands/temples/evolving wilds into untapped sources is reasonable.
 
safra

safra

yeah in retrospect Atarka's Scheme is too strong for the cycle. Maybe one mana and the first creature spell you cast can't be countered, idk. a Hidden agenda with Cavern of Souls' ability?

anyway the Conspiracy -- Scheme thing has me thinking about other characters from Magic's plot and I think there's surprisingly deep design space (i feel like the Planechase Plane static abilities are a good crib source) so i'm gonna hunker down and see what else I can come up with for you

I still think every Conspiracy is probably too strong so idk
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

It's true that it's really hard to gauge power level on conspiracies. I could be off on any of those (except Atarka's). Another neat mechanic for them might be "Turn ~ face down: ...". That creates a single one-shot effect that you have control over.
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
Just my take on it but xp counters are enough of a shark jump as is. Unofficial cards have a credibility problem to begin with so I'm not sure that using mechanics which themselves have credibility problems (even when they're on official cards) is where we want to be at when we start a design.
 
genericco

genericco

I'm with Aoret. Experience counters are pretty dubious. They introduce a lot of rules baggage that adds up to a mechanic that to me doesn't seem to belong in the game.

They're mechanically similar to poison counters, but effectively play more like emblems.

Emblems are cleanly designed, they're simple mechanics that can't be interacted with in any way, and they're rare and associated with big splashy moments (planeswalker ults).

Like emblems, your xp counters sit outside the game and are associated with you rather than something you own or control. Flavor-wise, it's your commander 'leveling up', progressing to a stronger version that doesn't get reset when it gets temporarily removed to the commander zone. Without the mechanic of coming back from the penalty-box commander zone it's not clear why Meren of clan nel toth should give you special counters to keep track of when she's not around that are only relevant if you can reanimate her. It gets really clumsy and counter intuitive when you have other cards contributing their own identical xp counters that do something different or if populate is a thing.

On the commanders that currently have them they're basically durdle counters too. If I ran Meren, I'd expect drafters to spend 90 seconds squinting at it before declaring it silly. And I'd have to agree.
 
anotak

anotak

um this is why i'm asking about custom cards bc you can build an environment around them and make it a thing that is actually interacted with
 
sigh

sigh

... sounds like the perfect topic for a contest! Where we can put all of our bright minds to the test figuring out exactly how useable the mechanic is, right? Its only been used on five cards, so I'd bet there's still design space left for us to investigate. Even if the result of the investigation is "yeah wow this sucks".
 
Coke No Ice

Coke No Ice

I agree that experience counters are bogus in that they have that special flavor that would make somebody who used to play this game ten+ years ago and who you finally managed to have over to your house to cube draft look at the card and then look at you and then narrow their eyes. But from a gameplay perspective they're not so different than anything else that asks you to count, except that you get them in a fairly esoteric fashion and they don't go away ever. Both of which you could remedy with custom cards but it would probably take a LOT of customs, i.e. cards that give you experience counters (hopefully by doing something unusual), cards that want you to have experience counters (this Memnite gets +1/+1 for each experience counter you have... shh it's my first try) and cards that behave differently if you or other players have experience counters.

But that kinda sounds like making a whole damn set so I dunno
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
Coke No Ice said:
But that kinda sounds like making a whole damn set so I dunno
Click to expand...

This is kinda what turns me off to the whole thing. My customs ethos is predicated on the cards having a high plausibility of actually seeing print. Other folks like to kinda make a whole universe. To me it feels like I'm just living in pretend land and like I lose any credibility I've built up with my drafters. I already ask quite a bit of them, breaking singleton, doing weird stuff with lands, doing weird stuff with power level, ULD, etc. Trying to create an alternate universe where xp counters aren't a shark jump just sounds like a lot of work for minimal gain to me.

But hey, just cause it ain't my cup of tea doesn't mean people who are into it can't go nuts, right? :)
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
So, I'm thinking of removing the Eldrazi cards, but I do like some of the effect. Thinking of replacing them got me to think of other cards I might want to color shift. Keep in mind I'm not running all color combinations (only UB, BG, GW, WR and RU). What do you guys think of these?

/
At {1}{U}?


At {1}{W} and an activation cost of {W}?


At {R} and an activation cost of {W}?


At {2}{G} and an activation cost of {2}{W}?
At {2}{B} and an activation cost of {2}{U}?


At {1}{U} and an activation cost of {1}{B}?
Maybe it should be able to block? Blue gets 2/1 flyers with an upside nowadays, right?


At {2}{G} and an activation cost of {1}{B}?


At {2}{W} and an activation cost of {R}?
 
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