General Custom Cards: The Lab

[yan]

i like the last one. seems like a nice clue spinoff

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Quick mockup!



As a rule of thumb I would lean toward making the base creature interesting enough to see play, and charge a bit extra for the spells it creates. Creating two sorcery speed Shocks is preeeeetty powerful! I think this mechanic is pretty awesome to play around with. Probably not something Wizards is ever going to do, though never say never, right?

 

[Aston]

This is a cool idea although you might run into some problems (I'm thinking Brainstorm specifically) and it doesn't strictly work within the rules of the game but that doesn't matter too much if it's just for your own group.

I wonder if you could achieve a similar thing with Emblems that circumvents these? eg

Spelldrifter
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, you get two emblems with ", Exile this emblem: Create a copy of an instant with "Draw a card". You may cast the copy without paying its mana cost."
2/2

 

[Onderzeeboot]

This is a cool idea although you might run into some problems (I'm thinking Brainstorm specifically) and it doesn't strictly work within the rules of the game but that doesn't matter too much if it's just for your own group.

That is a very good reason why they will never print something like this. Still, tell me this isn't awesome...

 

[EliteArcanist]

Yeah, I totally agree it doesn't fit into the rules. But it is fun! And as Onderzee just demonstrated, it can be really flexible and powerful.

 

[Aston]

I agree it's awesome, that's why I want to make it work!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I agree it's awesome, that's why I want to make it work!

I think it works just fine with the spell tokens. For our cubes at least. You'll need to houserule that the spell tokens don't cease to exist when they are added to your hand or shuffled into your library or whatever, but eh. Any of the wordings I can think of that actually work with the current rules set are super messy and way too wordy. You need to invent something new to make it work I think.

I have an idea though, but it's going to take some work. I'll get back to you

 

[Chris Taylor]

Loving this idea. I've been looking for an elegant way to word this for a while now, and given how much of my playgroup plays hearthstone, it might just be totally fine.

The emblem idea seems the closest to actual magic rules but feels hella awkward, and doesn't really telegraph that it triggers prowess on first read.

I think you might have to bend the rules a bit, and just tell your players "Look, we both know what I'm trying to do here"

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think I got a good solution! What if we create a new card type, say Scroll, that can be used in conjunction with the Instant and Sorcery card types? Basically you are creating a one-shot Emblem with a casting cost.

 

[EliteArcanist]

That is perfect! A very elegant design for the whole thing. You're saying the scroll would stay on the battlefield like an emblem, to avoid awkward library interactions?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

That is perfect! A very elegant design for the whole thing. You're saying the scroll would stay on the battlefield like an emblem, to avoid awkward library interactions?

Technically it's in the command zone (and as such it can't be interacted with, discard and/or removal spells can't touch the scroll for example). But yes, this should avoid the awkward library interactions!

 

[sigh]

Very nice concept! I think the only thing missing is the "token" in the typeline. Wizards would need some new rules tech to make this work, but this is very intuitive for a playgroup. Using the sorcery and instant typing as a rule basis even tunes into the framework of how instants and sorceries are interacted with (reverberate, dispel, etc). And as a token it would conveniently vanish from the graveyard and leave no loose ends

Very cool!

 

[Chris Taylor]

I gotta say I think your choice of frame there is perfect.

Alright, when I get home it's time to brainstorm a million of these!

Qlso: someone take a quick gander over the hearthstone spoiler. Archeage Antonia's is probably a bit... I don't even know. He might be cool in magic anyways.

Holy hell I can give people coins now. Oh my good God damn

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Very nice concept! I think the only thing missing is the "token" in the typeline. Wizards would need some new rules tech to make this work, but this is very intuitive for a playgroup. Using the sorcery and instant typing as a rule basis even tunes into the framework of how instants and sorceries are interacted with (reverberate, dispel, etc). And as a token it would conveniently vanish from the graveyard and leave no loose ends

Very cool!

Thanks! I thought about the token type a bit, but...

110.5. Some effects put tokens onto the battlefield. A token is a marker used to represent any permanent that isn’t represented by a card.

and

113.1. Some effects put emblems into the command zone. An emblem is a marker used to represent an object that has one or more abilities, but no other characteristics.

Note that a token, by the current rules, always represents a permanent, and that an emblem is indeed not a token. My intention was to create a new marker type that resonates as a one shot spell, hence "scroll". It'ld be ruled something along the lines of...

111.x Some effects put scrolls into the command zone. A scroll is a marker used to represent an instant or sorcery that isn't represented by a card.

111.xa An effect that creates an scroll is written “[Player] gets a(n) [instant/sorcery] scroll with cost [mana cost] and [ability].” This means that [player] puts a scroll with cost [mana cost] and [ability] into the command zone. The scroll is both owned and controlled by that player.

111.xb At any time the player has priority and could cast a spell of the scrolls card type, he may cast the scroll as though it were a card of the appropriate card type in the player's hand. This follows all the normal rules for casting an instant or sorcery card. Casting a scroll triggers any abilities that would normally trigger on casting a card with that card type. When the scroll resolves, it ceases to exist as it leaves the stack.

111.xc A spell or ability that creates a scroll sets both its name and its card type. An “Unstable Portal sorcery scroll,” for example, is named “Unstable Portal” and has the card type Sorcery.

111.xd A scroll is neither a card nor a permanent. Scroll isn’t a card type.

111.xe A scroll is subject to anything that affects the scroll’s card type. A scroll isn’t a card (even if represented by a card that has a Magic back or that came from a Magic booster pack).

Plus a bunch of corner case rules I can't be bothered with. Anyway, I believe it should be its own card type!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I took another stab at the Seeker of Wonder, using the new template. I figured I don't need to mention the color of the scroll, since the mana cost determines the color already, and I do have to make sure people don't bounce the Seeker in response to the activated ability for "infinite" loops



I'm making the MSE template for the scrolls by hand because the only one I could find online looks really subpar. Needless to say, it's a time-consuming task, and the blue one is the first I finished. Now it's time for bed though, and tomorrow I'm super busy, so for anyone who was hoping to download this template somewhere, you'll have to exercise some patience

Question though: should it be Sorcery Scroll, or Scroll Sorcery? It's Token Creature, but Scroll Sorcery sounds bad?

 

[Chris Taylor]

Srocery - Scroll?

On reflection the supertype seems best

 

[Chris Taylor]

So, not a lot of cards in hearthstone actually give you specific cards. A bunch give you a random card, but thats less "Scrollable"

Here's three potential candidates to just port:

Coin being Lotus Petal, Razor Petal being 1 mana 1 damage, and fireball being 4 mana 6 damage (Probably a bit too much)

thoughts?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

[...] fireball being 4 mana 6 damage (Probably a bit too much)

thoughts?

Well, if you're going to make a Fireball-generating card, it should make actual Scrolls of Fireball, amirite?

 

[Aston]

Is Antonidas supposed to trigger off his own spells?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Is Antonidas supposed to trigger off his own spells?

Yes. It's a well-known finisher in Hearthstone's Mage decks. You need another spell to start the chain though.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Is Antonidas supposed to trigger off his own spells?

one of the decent combo decks at the moment involves getting him and four copies of "Your spells cost 1 less" into play for infinite damage.

Now weather that translates that well to magic, he does cost 7. Given hearthstone's differing ruleset, I'd probably knock his toughness down to 5.
If he's making magic the gathering fireballs (X spells) he's actually kinda shit, since there's very few circumstances in which casting a second X spell is good at all, let alone one that lets you divide damage

 

[Onderzeeboot]

one of the decent combo decks at the moment involves getting him and four copies of "Your spells cost 1 less" into play for infinite damage.

Now weather that translates that well to magic, he does cost 7. Given hearthstone's differing ruleset, I'd probably knock his toughness down to 5.
If he's making magic the gathering fireballs (X spells) he's actually kinda shit, since there's very few circumstances in which casting a second X spell is good at all, let alone one that lets you divide damage

Shit as in Fireball is one of the sickest uncommons you can open in limited? It's not that you are going to cast multiple Fireballs per turn, but this is going to win you the game very quickly. Also, seven mana can get you 5/7 stats just fine, so I don't think it's necessary to deviate from the Hearthstone card in that regard. If anything, it could use better stats!

 

[Taamas]

I read what you were saying yesterday about the cards that put spell tokens in your hand and got very interested in exploring the concept for a custom set I'm working on. I had a couple solutions for the problem:

–Creating a new card type that behaves just as we want. Scroll is just that, and the word I could not come up with. Amazing!

–If we want the tokens to behave as cards, why not let them be cards? Instead of creating tokens, we could make the spell-generating cards act like wishes. For example, Wild Summoner's rules text would be "When ~ enters the battlefield, you may choose a card named Summon Elemental from outside the game, reveal that card, and put it into your hand." This way, the "tokens" can go to the graveyard, be shuffled, etc etc. You could even "create" them in your graveyard, library, exile, or wherever you want.

The second approach would probably require the "tokens" be given to the person who drafts the wish card, and they could include them in their base deck, which would throw away the concept. To prevent this, I guess you could add the line "you can't have this card in your deck at the start of the game".

 

[Velrun]

Onderzeeboot

Do you think I could get your template file for the improved Conspiracy template that you've made solemnly for Scrolls?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Onderzeeboot

Do you think I could get your template file for the improved Conspiracy template that you've made solemnly for Scrolls?

If you give me some time I am happy to make a template available that works for the other four colors (and colorless) as well