General Custom Cards: The Lab

Velrun

Velrun

I guess that was the point. That it would create a dilemma we don’t see too often during drafting: Do or hate pick or pick a card that I will most likely not use (but maybe use in rare situations)?

I kinda like the 5-cards-left-in-the-pack. We could make it a mechanic and cycle it up.

Edit: Although it IS an issue that who gets the buffed cards are randomized according to table seatings. The memory issues are no worse than what we already see on official WotC cards from their draft sets and can be solved by stickers like we have always used. Cards like Outpost Siege has the same issues and has never been a problem.
 
Suicufnoc

Suicufnoc

Onderzeeboot said:
Probably a good deal better than its source of inspiration though, since tokens are permanent. Still, sweet!
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So are the effects of Lightning Bolt, Electrickery, Tormening Voice, Fireball, etc... Theoretically, if a red sorcery is worth 6 mana, and a green creature is worth 6 mana, copying them should have similar value.

But yeah, I get the feeling it should cost at least 6 anyways.

Beastmaster's Helmet is probably the right answer.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
In my mind I was comparing the following two cards.



I haven't quite figured out what the math would lead to, but copying a spell is somewhat comparable to copying a creature for one turn only? Maybe giving the token haste and exiling it at end of turn is the way to go then? Haste is secondary in green, so it's probably okay?

Also, are you intentionally using the old wording for creating tokens?
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Part of it comes from the difficulty of a purely creature less deck. A deck where every card is built for pyromancers goggles might have trouble winning on its own, and you'd need to get creative, or run an imagined 40 lightning bolts.

Jamming your deck full of green creatures is a natural instinct (heh) and while the deck has weaknesses, board presence gained by jamming another copy of every creature you play isn't the most obvious solution.

Sure you could hold back, letting the goggles help you play around overextension, but that's awkward in itself
 
Suicufnoc

Suicufnoc

The goggles/helmet itself would probably feel more green if it put like 4 +1/+1 counters on the creature or something. Or equal to CMC? But I don't like that card as much. I like that as is, it helps against counter spells and doom blades.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
You could just set it to creating a green 3/3 creature token (beast, ape, elephant, centaur, whatever flavor you like). Not as exiting, but still good for the role you want it to fill, and less unbalanced. Anyway, for reference, this what I consider the strongest green planeswalker:



And the main reason he's so strong is that he can just churn out a 3/3 beast every turn. Obviously the Helmet/Goggles is less reliable, but making a copy is way better, usually, than making a 3/3 body.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Maybe you can make it a variant of this card?



Something like "{T}: Add {G} to your mana pool. When that mana is spent to cast a green creature spell, destroy all tokens created by Beastmaster's Helmet, then create a token that's a copy of that creature, except it's not legendary."

Not sure if this is the most elegant wording, but... ensuring there's only ever one token around does make it fairer? Of course you can still abuse the heck out of it with Birthing Pod, since casting cost is a copyable value. You could also do something like Hour of Devastation's eternalize.

{T}: Add {G} to your mana pool. When that mana is spent to cast a green creature spell, destroy all tokens created by Beastmaster's Helmet, then create a token that's a copy of that creature, except it’s a 3/3 green Spirit Beast with no mana cost."

Or you could increase the casting cost of your original design. I do think the original cost is too low for that effect.
 
Suicufnoc

Suicufnoc

Onderzeeboot said:
Obviously the Helmet/Goggles is less reliable, but making a copy is way better, usually, than making a 3/3 body.
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Agreed, but you need the card in hand. In your average green deck, this isn't making a token every single turn, and I would assume an average creature CMC of 3-4.

Now, in UG ramp, with lots of card draw, this card is nuts.

Onderzeeboot said:
When that mana is spent to cast a green creature spell, destroy all tokens created by Beastmaster's Helmet, then create a token that's a copy of that creature
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I kind of like this. I don't know if making it non-legendary is necessary.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Suicufnoc said:
I don't know if making it non-legendary is necessary.
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Me neither, but I added it because I thought it might feel bad for players that casting a legendary creature with this templating means you end up with no tokens. Conversely, being able to make a second copy of a cool legendary creature might be exciting.
 
Aston

Aston

Has there ever been a card that makes non legendary copies of legendary permanents? I didn’t realise the rules would let that work and it’s a cool thing to be able to do.
 
Suicufnoc

Suicufnoc

Aston said:
Has there ever been a card that makes non legendary copies of legendary permanents? I didn’t realise the rules would let that work and it’s a cool thing to be able to do.
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I'm not sure. Does it actually work, or will the one with legendary still make sure one dies because they have the same name?
 
Aston

Aston

According to Wikipedia (lol) the legend rule only kicks in if there are two permanents which share the same name and are both legendary. I thought it worked the way you’re saying, where each legendary checks each other permanent to see if they share a name, but apparently not.
 
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