General Custom Cards: The Lab

[safra]

Never seen this before. It isn't playable outside some kind of lorwyn style environment imo, but here's a thought, based on the marriage of this and Persecute:
2BB sorcery
additional cost sacrifice any number of non-token permanents
target opponent reveals their hand and discards all cards with a CMC equal to something you sacrificed

Mass discard "isn't fun", but sideboarding Persecute in Modern is a delight! And the idea I had in mind was to play off the tension of 'do I also sacrifice this good card' against 'but what if there's a counterspell' against the idea that simplifying board states is a nice thing to do every once in a while.

Also, fringe benefit to any kind of bauble or enchantment recursion plans.

 

[Chris Taylor]

To encourage more people to make use of creature recursion, and to up the creature count of my black section (for cards like graveblade marauder) without clogging up boards, I've been experimenting with different ways for the basic spells to be creatures. (Okay maybe there's a better way of putting that but roll with me here)

Shriekmaw opens up a removal spell option on raise dead, but the damn card's 5 mana mode is so strong that you can't really call it a noncreature part of your cube in terms of balancing. (Plus there's also a lot of psychology going on there. Mulldrifter gets evoked WAY LESS than it should, because casting it is so good.)

So if I wanted to make, say, a go for the throat variant that didn't have these problems, which of these works best?

Pros:
-Existing mechanics
-Sacrificing this to goblin bombardment with the sacrifice trigger on the stack is sweet

Cons:
-I feel like I could make this cost 8 and people would still try and hardcast it, and there need to be reminder text if it's mana cost is NULL like evermind
-Scans horribly. I hate cards whose actual cost is in the text box instead of in the upper right
-Wordy as hell, especially on instants.




Pros:
-Now scans well
-Simple
-Cards like glorious anthem mean you get a 1/1 with your spell (Cool & Weird) but they don't end up going to the graveyard, which was the whole point of this

Cons:
-No more sac synergy (though it still dies, so blood artist likes this fine)
-This is way too cute
-How do we flavor this?



Pros:
-Still Scans Well
-Medium Wordy
-Flavor kinda works? My idea is that instead of hiring a creature on a long term basis like usual, you'd hire a creature for a service, and it'd disappear. I'm sure normally that would mean you exile it or something, but I think this is justifiable as a game play conceit.

Cons:
-P/T are completely arbitrary. Stifle is the only way for this to be in play at all, so he could be a damn 30/30 for all it would matter.

There's also the completely giving up "This card counts as a creature card" text I could add to literally anything.

Which one do you think works best?

 

[Velrun]

100 % the Contract version.

At least for testing. It just feels so cool and it is truly original. A unique card but it reads well. MARO would approve!

And why would we even make custom cards if the custom cards didn't do something special/fun/unique?

Now put Contract on a few other cards

Also we might have to find a reason for this actually always dying to itself. I guess players will ask you why this just isn't an instant? (Hence your original problem)

 

[Velrun]

If you want some tension to the game play and a reason for the creature to die you could go along this kind of route:



Contract suddenly reads a little more clumsy. But the upside is that the keywords creates a little tension and some decisions to be made during the game. Do I block or wait for the sacrifice to get my gold? Also the card won't just feel like an instant but like a creature that will die quite quickly but not instantaneous. Just an idea.

 

[safra]

I like Velrun's idea a lot!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Another option is to turn around evoke.

Mercenary Poisoner
Creature - Human Assassin
Contract (When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you pay .)
When ~ enters the battlefield, destroy target nonartifact creature.
2/1

Or, shift the cost to the upkeep...

Mercenary Poisoner
Creature - Human Assassin
Contract (At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice ~ unless you pay .)
When ~ enters the battlefield, destroy target nonartifact creature.
2/1

Or, shift the effect to a dies trigger, so you actively want it to die, but make people pay for the contract or it won't work... (Though now we're moving into territory where you need an outside card to make it work on command.)

Mercenary Poisoner
Creature - Human Assassin
Contract (When ~ would be put into a graveyard, exile it unless you pay .)
When ~ dies, destroy target nonartifact creature.
2/1

Maybe word that in another way? (What's this about reflexive triggers?)

Mercenary Poisoner
Creature - Human Assassin
Contract — When ~ dies, you may pay . When you do, destroy target nonartifact creature.
2/1

Or maybe there needs to be a cost to keeping the creature around? Maybe we should reuse upkeep?

Mercenary Poisoner
Creature - Human Assassin
Upkeep (At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice ~ unless you pay .)
When ~ dies, destroy target nonartifact creature.
2/1

Or maybe what you really want is a marriage between evoke and upkeep?

Mercenary Poisoner
Creature - Human Assassin
Contract (When ~ enters the battlefield and at the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay .)
When ~ enters the battlefield, destroy target nonartifact creature.
2/1

And then maybe switch it to a dies effect?

Mercenary Poisoner
Creature - Human Assassin
Contract (When ~ enters the battlefield and at the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay .)
When ~ dies, destroy target nonartifact creature.
2/1

 

[anotak]

heads up: 0 toughness dudes are confusing to a lot of new or even medium-new ppl. also just doesnt feel like a creature at that point

alternative take

Flash
Greedy (At the beginning of each end step, if ~ entered the battlefield this turn, pay or sacrifice it.)
When ~ enters the battlefield, destroy target creature.
1/1

this is a good excuse to use the Mercenary creature type, actually

edit: oh i Onder's post wasnt here yet, lemme read that

edit2: okay so i dont like making new cards with decisions in upkeep if it's avoidable. ppl can forget to pay until they draw and it's just like, okay, that's part of magic, but just like, why perpetuate this design flaw in magic if we can minimize it.

 

[Velrun]

This is a good excuse to use the Mercenary creature type, actually

Mercenaries are looters from Mercadia who have the ability to gather quickly. They are not paid murderers:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&subtype=+["Mercenary"]

Assassin’s are paid murderers:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&subtype=+["Assassin"]

If I saw the Mercenary creature type I would ask the designer where the Mercenary looting ability were

 

[anotak]

uh, the word mercenary literally means "hired soldier"
as far as the mtg history goes, there are several mercenaries you linked on that page not from mercadia that don't have the mercadian masques ability

i meant in reference to using a "contract" or "greedy" or whatever you call it ability. that it would make sense to pair such an ability with the "mercenary" creature type in general. it fits flavor wise in the same way that "elemental" fits evoke.

 

[Chris Taylor]

The sad thing is the good answer is probably to design things that feel like creatures rather than designing #creature instants

I am a bit worried about how much blocking these things might be doing. Like bone shredder is still in your creature section right?

Is Sakura Tribe Elder? Should it be? I dunno

 

[vennythekid]

Well, how do you feel about this card:

Doom Blade Parachute
Instant
Destroy target non-black, non-artifact creature.
Create a 1/1 Human Mercenary token with "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrafice this unless you pay ."

It's the same thing, but as a spell instead of a creature. Should it be?
I would avoid designs that read or play like Echo.

I think "When this creature deals combat damage, sacrafice it" could be what you're looking for instead of Echo-style "sac-or-pay" mechanics. It lets you get the value of the creature without leading to board clogs.


Mercenary Poisoner Creature - Human Assassin
Flash
Contract (When this creature deals combat damage, sacrifice it.)
When ~ enters the battlefield, destroy target nonartifact creature.
2/1

 

[Miasmir]

Skizzik might be a good example of templating that works here?

 

[Chris Taylor]

Echo is probably what I want actually
The whole aim here was to get "Creature" on the typeline, so an instant that makes an awkward token is kinda the opposite of what I was aiming for

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Echo is probably what I want actually
The whole aim here was to get "Creature" on the typeline, so an instant that makes an awkward token is kinda the opposite of what I was aiming for

Beware of echo though, it's not the most elegant mechanic. In hindsight anotak was absolutely right for disliking my upkeep trigger

 

[anotak]

echo plays real bad

idk if it'll work but yea seriously try moving that to the eot of the current turn

 

[Velrun]

Chris just go with my Contract idea and don’t listen to those nay-sayers

You will thank me after the first tournament where you’ve introduced at least five of these Contract cards that not only plays cleanly (after reading them once), gives you more creatures in the graveyard AND minimizes the amount of non-games. GO!

 

[Chris Taylor]

I like your confidence

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think Velrun's contract idea reads cleanly, but it still suffers from the upkeep problem, plus it secretly staples Lotus Petal onto every card with contract, plus it makes no sense that you get the gold. I actually like Miasmir's Skizzik idea the best. Just rename it to contract, since everything is kicker anyway, and it reads a lot better when it has its own keyword.

What I do like about Velrun's contract idea is that you get to choose whether you want to cash in the creature for some other benefit (i.e. a sac outlet) or for mana, but that Lotus Petal really needs to be factored into the mana cost, and I think the ability is easier to remember if you make it an "at the beginning of the end step" trigger, as per anotak's suggestion. Yes that means you can't use contract creatures as a pseudo-Fog anymore, but I don't think creating more Sakura-Tribe Elders was your intent?

 

[Velrun]

Upkeep effects are 800 % more normal than EOT effects. People are use to upkeep effects and even noobs remember them where EOT effects on the other hand are super rare. It is not like people have a hard time remembering Phyrexian Arena or Search for Azcanta. Hearthstone usually use EOT effects but that is rarely a MtG thing.

And yes like the transform enchantments from Ixalan they all end up giving you mana. Even the non-green ones. But I believe that will help the cube overall.

 

[Velrun]

By the way, this is how the land ended up.

Thanks to Ondezeeboot for the morbid wording.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

By the way, this is how the land ended up.

Thanks to Ondezeeboot for the morbid wording.

View attachment 2174

I have a small nitpick... Sorry!

If we follow the revolt wording, it should read "Activate this ability only if a creature you *controlled* died this turn."

Edit: Also, morbid does not care about under whose control the creature died, so if you do, you can't actually use morbid, you'ld need some other keyword. Which is my bad again

 

[Velrun]

Note to self: Never listen to Underzeeboot in his first attempt to help Wait for the second

So this is what I have now:



It is obviously too good to see print in a normal WotC Magic set but in a contained environment like a cube it can be fair. For instance this will cost some ressources to gain access to.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Skizzik might be a good example of templating that works here?

So I've got designs I like with both templates, but my brain keeps telling me this is too "custom magic" and that evoke probably is the way to go.

(Yes please just ignore the card on the right is probably magic's only samurai without bushido *take a number* moving on)


These cards are almost functionally identical, but evoke reads a lot cleaner. This I think is literally an example listed of how not to use kicker, even if it does technically work

Kicker does communicate where I want these to fall on people's curves, and (especially with some of the bigger designs I've got) you probably get some people to pay attention by leading with , 2/2, ETB upside.

 

[Velrun]

That is probably Magic’s only samurai without bushido.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

That is probably Magic’s only samurai without bushido.

Um, actually...