I do actually like the printing of Scourge. It makes another style of combo deck (food chain combo) more consistent in draft. It's not quite at Kikki/Twin level (2/2 piece split w/ resto angel+kikki being a minor third, to this 2/1 piece split), but it's got 3 pieces, so it's close. I'm always up for more combo variety in cube.
Sets [EMN] Eldritch Moon Spoilers Thread
- Thread starter Goldenpineapple
- Start date
well there's already the food chain combo
I know, but every additional piece for a combo makes it more consistent in draft. Having another piece to draft in addition to Misthollow Griffin is a nice little boost.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Plus the eldrazi are already about exile, so even if it breaks rules it's consistent with their other rule breaking *Shrug*
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Oh also:
oh man this costs 1 mana. Aren't hearthstone creatures this big?
It's also got the cutest form of deathtouch ever
oh man this costs 1 mana. Aren't hearthstone creatures this big?
It's also got the cutest form of deathtouch ever
lol and I thought you were responding to me. My bad as well.
Loving that Permeating Mass! Not quite sure what to do with it, but it's hilarious!
Is Permeating Mass good? I think I actually like it. It looks like a fun and balanced answer to aggro matchups. I can imagine it backfiring a tad though.... I actually have no idea how it plays out at all.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
It sure blocks well, and it's kinda halfway between Beast within and Song of the dryads in how pathetic a permanent it gives them.
It's pretty eminently killable at only 3 toughness, so I hardly think it'll be a problem, unless your cube is actually how most people joke mine is becoming (100% 2/1's
)
I had a few people complaining a while back about how evolve was actually really hard to make work due to the lack of high p/t cards in green, and this does help solve that problem (Though I've mostly just cut down on the number of evolve guys I'm running instead, so it's less of a problem in that there's other green creatures for you to run)
It's pretty eminently killable at only 3 toughness, so I hardly think it'll be a problem, unless your cube is actually how most people joke mine is becoming (100% 2/1's
)I had a few people complaining a while back about how evolve was actually really hard to make work due to the lack of high p/t cards in green, and this does help solve that problem (Though I've mostly just cut down on the number of evolve guys I'm running instead, so it's less of a problem in that there's other green creatures for you to run)
I hear what you are saying. And to each their own. I just feel like there are good breaking of rules (where it's established as "possible" by the overall laws of the world you establish). And then there's just stuff that essentially cheapens said world where this effect is not supposed to happen.
/Begin Rant
An example would be like establishing that death is permanent in some fantasy world and then having somebody come back to life. You can do that sort of thing well by setting up an exception early on (think GOT and the eye patch guy - leading to Jon Snow's resurrection) and you can do it really poorly by making it seem like it's impossible and then deus ex machina'ing the whole thing (many examples I could cite for this one).
Exile used to be "Remove from the game", which literally meant take it the fuck out of this game permanently. Graveyard was "dead"/"used up", but there were always some exceptions where you could maybe get something back or resurrect it or whatever. But that was the established rule and there were ways to break it. But Exile is exile. I personally don't care how "weird" or "strange" Eldrazi are, this is like resurrection in a world where death is supposed to be final and have weight. It just cheapens the whole concept if everyone who ever died could somehow come back. It would be like bringing back a vampire in True Blood after they experience the true death. It would shatter the whole foundation of the universe in which that story took place.
/Rant End
An example would be like establishing that death is permanent in some fantasy world and then having somebody come back to life. You can do that sort of thing well by setting up an exception early on (think GOT and the eye patch guy - leading to Jon Snow's resurrection) and you can do it really poorly by making it seem like it's impossible and then deus ex machina'ing the whole thing (many examples I could cite for this one).
Exile used to be "Remove from the game", which literally meant take it the fuck out of this game permanently. Graveyard was "dead"/"used up", but there were always some exceptions where you could maybe get something back or resurrect it or whatever. But that was the established rule and there were ways to break it. But Exile is exile. I personally don't care how "weird" or "strange" Eldrazi are, this is like resurrection in a world where death is supposed to be final and have weight. It just cheapens the whole concept if everyone who ever died could somehow come back. It would be like bringing back a vampire in True Blood after they experience the true death. It would shatter the whole foundation of the universe in which that story took place.
/Rant End
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I don't believe this has been mentioned yet:
(ETA: ok it has BUT it's so good I'll mention it again)
Selfless Soul 1W
Creature - Spirit
Flying
Sacrifice Selfless Soul: Creatures you control gain indestructible until end of turn
2/1
A strict upgrade to the unfortunately named Stormfront Pegasus and the oft-forgotten Mistral Charger. This is a big boost to the 'Protect the Queen' theme that I've been liking a lot in white, and it's just as good with sweepers as it is against them
(ETA: ok it has BUT it's so good I'll mention it again)
Selfless Soul 1W
Creature - Spirit
Flying
Sacrifice Selfless Soul: Creatures you control gain indestructible until end of turn
2/1
A strict upgrade to the unfortunately named Stormfront Pegasus and the oft-forgotten Mistral Charger. This is a big boost to the 'Protect the Queen' theme that I've been liking a lot in white, and it's just as good with sweepers as it is against them
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Also works surprisingly well in prowess style decks I've found. the demand prowess puts on your noncreature spell count obviously means you'll be running less creatures, making protecting the threats you do have all the more important. I've also tried benevolent bodyguard (A favorite from pauper and EMA) to the same end.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
The great thing about those creatures is that they are like suspend counterspells, and end up adding so much depth to an overwise drab color.
My only complaint is that indestructable can't grant evasion, though having an evasive flyer is quite nice. Seems like a natural fit for the UW flyers deck.
My only complaint is that indestructable can't grant evasion, though having an evasive flyer is quite nice. Seems like a natural fit for the UW flyers deck.
Selfless Soul + Rattlechains seems like a good time.
If I can find a slot for Selfless Soul, there is a lot going for it. I run dauntless escort in one of my EDH decks, where it is perennially one of the most useful/frustrating to deal with utility creatures the deck has. Soul is one mana less, one color, and evasive? Sign me up .
I frankly dislike Permeating Mass quite a lot. It's probably a very useful card for the right place, and in all likelihood very very good, but the fact that it basically completely halts positive board development is so... frustrating! Every swing from either side can result in the threat from that side effectively being destroyed, but adding to the mess while doing so. And if the first doesn't even die.... woo boy. Add to that the fact that it can come down before the aggro player has even played a land.....
I also think people are definitely underestimating Grim Flayer. It's a brutally efficient beater that self enables and has evasion, all the while gaining you card quality. Every turn grinding you down to answers to keep it connecting, keeping the quality flowing. How rose tinted glasses am I being? I don't know. It's tremendously difficult to accurately evaluate such a nuanced card. All I think is that it has a ton of potential to power you through the game on 100 octane gasoline
.I frankly dislike Permeating Mass quite a lot. It's probably a very useful card for the right place, and in all likelihood very very good, but the fact that it basically completely halts positive board development is so... frustrating! Every swing from either side can result in the threat from that side effectively being destroyed, but adding to the mess while doing so. And if the first doesn't even die.... woo boy. Add to that the fact that it can come down before the aggro player has even played a land.....
I also think people are definitely underestimating Grim Flayer. It's a brutally efficient beater that self enables and has evasion, all the while gaining you card quality. Every turn grinding you down to answers to keep it connecting, keeping the quality flowing. How rose tinted glasses am I being? I don't know. It's tremendously difficult to accurately evaluate such a nuanced card. All I think is that it has a ton of potential to power you through the game on 100 octane gasoline
I will say that I thought Grim Flayer's mill ability was triggered on attacking, not combat damage. I still think it's good enough to try though. Free Indexing is really good, and it even feeds the yard.
It's a lot more like a free Mystic Speculation, and in a GY format even better than that.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Grim Flayer is a great card, but your format has to be ok with creatures that are non-ETB or lack an immediate activated ability. It is a bit awkward as a card, as it would be really well positioned as a simic card. Simic could do both a great job forcing it through, protecting it, and growing it to dominating size. Unfortunately, golgari is kind of ill-equipped at protecting its threats, and while green is great at accentuating trample as evasion, black is very bad at it.
Its probably a BUG card in disguise, which should be taken into account when given it a slot. Lotleth troll is probably the better pure golgari card.
Permeating mass is a miserable card that should only be ran to troll people.
card, as it would be really well positioned as a simic card. Simic could do both a great job forcing it through, protecting it, and growing it to dominating size. Unfortunately, golgari is kind of ill-equipped at protecting its threats, and while green is great at accentuating trample as evasion, black is very bad at it. Its probably a BUG card in disguise, which should be taken into account when given it a slot. Lotleth troll is probably the better pure golgari card.
Permeating mass is a miserable card that should only be ran to troll people.
I honestly do not agree that Black is bad here. Removal spells are this cards best friend. T2 this into T3 to the slaughter/whatever will be really hard for any but the lowest to the ground creature decks to stop, and that goes for T4, T5 etc
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Trample is really big on a card like Grim Flayer but, even in a graveyard-based BG Aggro deck, how often is it better than Putrid Leech?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Its not that black is bad, its just no where near as good at producing combat triggers as blue, which is what this card is about. Blue is amazing at both protecting individual threats via soft counters, or sneaking threats in for combat triggers via evasion granting effects (flying/unblockable granters) or with bounce.
Sure, black can just try to spot remove everything larger than it, but it can't protect grim flayer, it can't make it unblockable or give it flying against a developed board, and it doesn't have aura's to directly buff its trample evasion. This is awkward for a card that somewhat struggles to live up to its full potential if it can't connect once or twice, and seems to damper some of the fun.
Like I said, I really like the card; it just has a few issues that should be considered, and I would have much preferred to see this style of card in Simic, where it would be exciting due to how well it fits into that guild's tempo plan.
Sure, black can just try to spot remove everything larger than it, but it can't protect grim flayer, it can't make it unblockable or give it flying against a developed board, and it doesn't have aura's to directly buff its trample evasion. This is awkward for a card that somewhat struggles to live up to its full potential if it can't connect once or twice, and seems to damper some of the fun.
Like I said, I really like the card; it just has a few issues that should be considered, and I would have much preferred to see this style of card in Simic, where it would be exciting due to how well it fits into that guild's tempo plan.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Jeez, Y'all are acting like this thing has hexproof and first strike
If it blocks a 3/1 or bigger, it's done. If it gets doom bladed, it's done.
Sure it bricks a pike of 2/x's, but what 1/3 doesn't?
If it blocks a 3/1 or bigger, it's done. If it gets doom bladed, it's done.
Sure it bricks a pike of 2/x's, but what 1/3 doesn't?