Sets [EMN] Eldritch Moon Spoilers Thread

[sigh]

Emissary is fine as a blocker, trading with a lot of attackers is solid. I don't see the problem with the card.

people have to see it as a blocker. We can all see it, but if your drafters don't then it doesn't play as intended. Have you guys actually read through the Gatherer? About half of people commenting realize it's probably meant for trading on defense.

EDIT: This top post on Gatherer is basically exactly what I'm getting at:

"Looks good on paper, but is pretty bad in practice.

Played 4 of these dudes in a besieged draft and found it almost impossible to get the land with any reliability- at least not in time to drop a T3 blightwidow/vatmother. I'd have prefered a 1/1 with infect for this- at least people would actually block it."

VE tricks people into thinking it's for an aggressive midrange deck. Primal Druid doesn't lie to you about being on the defensive line, and that's why I think it's read slightly worse but might play better overall

 

[RavebornMuse]

people have to see it as a blocker. We can all see it, but if your drafters don't then it doesn't play as intended. Have you guys actually read through the Gatherer? About half of people commenting realize it's probably meant for trading on defense.

EDIT: This top post on Gatherer is basically exactly what I'm getting at:

VE tricks people into thinking it's for an aggressive midrange deck. Primal Druid doesn't lie to you about being on the defensive line, and that's why I think it's read slightly worse but might play better overall

If you aren't going for a trade off Viridian Emissary and you're worried about signalling then why aren't you running Sakura-Tribe Elder for your body-to-land needs? Yknow it's good to put some not-tech stuff in your list, it's nice to have some generic tools to rest upon

 

[sigh]

If you aren't going for a trade off Viridian Emissary and you're worried about signalling then why aren't you running Sakura-Tribe Elder for your body-to-land needs? Yknow it's good to put some not-tech stuff in your list, it's nice to have some generic tools to rest upon

I have STE already, and I bet a lot of other people do too. The non-tech argument works against both VE and PD, so why even bring it up? I guess to say that neither version of the effect is needed? That's a valid argument

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

This feels like a weird argument to be having. PD seems like a pretty low powered card to be playing. It probably does do a better job of signalling what deck it should go in, but wall of roots probably does an even better job. Nobody is much playing VE either.

To change the topic slightly, After initially thinking the emerge creatures were over costed and dull, I'm getting more intrigued. The blue ones seem especially interesting and could add an interesting sac overlap and could add a bit more to the currently non playable cc matters theme.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

VE and PD both have the same problem, that you can't actively trigger the land search effect if you want it. I don't like either card, and much prefer SKE as its a design that clearly signels its a cantripping life gain card, and has none of the triggering issues VE or PD have.

I ran VE for a long time, and will agree with sigh's arguments thats its an inelegant design. If I had to choose between VE or PD, I would prob run PD just because its clear what it does and where it fits.

 

[Jason Waddell]

This thread is getting more acronym heavy by the post.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

This thread is getting more acronym heavy by the post.

Don't you just hate it when everybody's using TLA's?

Anyway, I haven't seen this mentioned, but this looks like a fairly brutal effect. Am I wrong?

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

BM looks pretty sick. Non-instant speed DS but makes up for it by sticking around. Really neat form of reach.

Also sick in a haste midrange build.

 

[Goldenpineapple]

I figured no one mentioned it because no one cares about

I like enchantments that are a bit like moving auras, but there aren't a whole lot of them.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Berserker's Onslaught is more of an alpha strike card though for a midrange deck. BM straddles the line better between aggro and midrange, and looks like a different take on assault strobe, which is a niche that needs filling.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Berserker's Onslaught is more of an alpha strike card though for a midrange deck. BM straddles the line better between aggro and midrange, and looks like a different take on assault strobe, which is a niche that needs filling.

Yeah, the difference between four and five mana is real! To be fair though, enchantments like this often fail to make an impact, because they create no pressure on their own.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I think if you are encouraging those sorts of DS style aggro-combo decks, this could be nice. There aren't a lot of reasonable sorcery speed DS effects, and like i've written about extensively in the past, the instant speed variety leads to a lot of feel bad random blow outs, that punish an opponent for simply not blocking.

Running a lot of assault strobe style effects though, I feel can get a bit boring, and this might be interesting as it has similar functionality, but some pros to outweigh its cons. I think I would have preferred it at 3cc, as its quite slow, but still a neat little enchantment that might fill a role some cube lists want.

 

[Eric Chan]

If I'm running Exalted Angel as a mid-sized, control-friendly lifegain flier, is Gisela a good candidate to replace her? She's easier to get into play, which might be worth losing two points of toughness for.

All that meld text is a real downside, though, and might set wrong expectations; I think at least two people will try to "combo" with a non-existent Bruna.

 

[sigh]

If I'm running Exalted Angel as a mid-sized, control-friendly lifegain flier, is Gisela a good candidate to replace her? She's easier to get into play, which might be worth losing two points of toughness for.

All that meld text is a real downside, though, and might set wrong expectations; I think at least two people will try to "combo" with a non-existent Bruna.

You should totally just cover that part with a white paper piece or something

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Or not fight expectations and include Bruna!

 

[RavebornMuse]

If I'm running Exalted Angel as a mid-sized, control-friendly lifegain flier, is Gisela a good candidate to replace her? She's easier to get into play, which might be worth losing two points of toughness for.

All that meld text is a real downside, though, and might set wrong expectations; I think at least two people will try to "combo" with a non-existent Bruna.

I really don't like the idea of that swap, personally.

Looking at your list, Exalted Angel dodges the vast majority of your burn. Gisela, the Broken Blade does not accomplish this feat, which is a real dealbreaker in my book. If I'm going control and , I want my huge life-gaining angel that costs a bunch of mana to be sturdy against red burn spells, which are my primary concern by the time I'm dropping 4-drops or 6-drops. Meanwhile the first strike solves a problem created by trading off those 2 points in toughness, and you miss out on the fun of Basilisk Collar shenanigans in gaining the official "lifelink" ability text, which is a real drag cuz those are two of my favourite cards to draft together when I go white.

As more of a player preference thing, I also must say that I really like the excitement of playing a T3 face-down Exalted Angel and hoping I can flip her next turn. So does my play group, fwiw, and I see Exalted Angel showing up in aggro lists plenty, too, for precisely this reason. It's a really great card that has really proven itself over here, and I love how simple and effective the design is.

 

[Dom Harvey]

I'm pretty underwhelmed by the new Tamiyo

I'd rather Cube with Sarkhan Unbroken tbh

CONFESSION: I thought it was 5 mana not 4 and damn that thing is going in immediately

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Certain adds:

 

[Goldenpineapple]

Thoughts on Oath of Liliana? I assumed it would get ignored in favor of the various better/cheaper edicts, and it has what I perceive as the significant downside of being a permanent. Am I just way wrong on that or does it hit a nice place with some kind of enchantment theme or something?

Things I'm less certain will stick around but I'm still gonna try because why not:

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Thoughts on Oath of Liliana? I assumed it would get ignored in favor of the various better/cheaper edicts, and it has what I perceive as the significant downside of being a permanent. Am I just way wrong on that or does it hit a nice place with some kind of enchantment theme or something?

There's a few reasons for me. One is that I do indeed run an enchantment theme in BGW. I also think the rider for planeswalkers is much better than it looks, because it gives you a blocker to defend your fresh planeswalker with!

 

[RavebornMuse]

Thoughts on Oath of Liliana? I assumed it would get ignored in favor of the various better/cheaper edicts, and it has what I perceive as the significant downside of being a permanent. Am I just way wrong on that or does it hit a nice place with some kind of enchantment theme or something?

What is the downside of an enchantment that has an etb trigger equivalent to a spell and fringe utility in a deck with planeswalkers?? This isn't Oblivion Ring, there's no real downside to it getting blown up and potential upside if it sticks around. I'm definitely running it because
a) art is sweet
b) edict effects are really awesome -flavoured removal
c) it has a cool effect if you're running 'walkers
d) art is really friggin sweet

 

[Goldenpineapple]

What is the downside of an enchantment that has an etb trigger equivalent to a spell and fringe utility in a deck with planeswalkers??

• Doesn't fill your graveyard- delve, delirium/goyf count, threshhold etc.
• Can't snapcaster/buy it back with similar effects
• Doesn't trigger instant/sorcery cards like delver of secrets/young pyromancer/scepter etc.
• Simply less powerful than edicts that cost less or have additional effects/instant speed

Yeah it has advantages, like being flickerwisped, brago'd etc. but those seem way more niche than any of the above (without an enchantment theme to loop/dig them up etc).
The planeswalker rider is good, easily one of the better pw effects so far, but how many planeswalkers do you expect your drafters to get? For me, getting more than one is pretty nutty. Even in an average list I think the PW upside would effect fewer games/matter less overall than the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th of my downsides, and probably close or equally with the first. It seems like a negligible change (instant/sorcery ->enchantment) but trying Jace's and Chandra's oaths in place of their = cards made it clear that it hurts way more decks than it helps. I 100% support it in an enchantment theme but not really seeing it without.

 

[RavebornMuse]

• Doesn't fill your graveyard- delve, delirium/goyf count, threshhold etc.
• Can't snapcaster/buy it back with similar effects
• Doesn't trigger instant/sorcery cards like delver of secrets/young pyromancer/scepter etc.
• Simply less powerful than edicts that cost less or have additional effects/instant speed

Yeah it has advantages, like being flickerwisped, brago'd etc. but those seem way more niche than any of the above (without an enchantment theme to loop/dig them up etc).
The planeswalker rider is good, easily one of the better pw effects so far, but how many planeswalkers do you expect your drafters to get? For me, getting more than one is pretty nutty. Even in an average list I think the PW upside would effect fewer games/matter less overall than the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th of my downsides, and probably close or equally with the first. It seems like a negligible change (instant/sorcery ->enchantment) but trying Jace's and Chandra's oaths in place of their = cards made it clear that it hurts way more decks than it helps. I 100% support it in an enchantment theme but not really seeing it without.

• If you're looking for delirium triggers, looting/discarding this away can potentially fulfill this requirement, as it's rarely a shortage of instants/sorceries keeping me off delirium (it's not an optimal play I admit but I've begrudgingly pitched better cards to trigger delirium so I'm biased)
• Snappy and friends already have a crapload of pals in cube and don't really need the help (I'd argue the same goes for 'Goyf and Scepter is the most miserable piece of garbage I've ever seen but YPMV)
• Spells-Matters rarely extends to green, so why should it fully extend to black? It has a great home in /
• I won't argue you that this doesn't match up well versus just jamming 80 copies of Doom Blade

FYI I run Oath of Jace and it's been pretty phenomenal over here; decks tend to like lots of spells, but they'll happily trade that away to scry with their Tamiyo, the Moon Sage to keep Miss Moon Ladyma'am alive by improving their draws.

I'm not saying "Run Oaths to power up your 8-Planeswalker SuperFriends decks!" I'm saying they offer great perks for just grabbing up 1 or 2 'walkers. But if you're having trouble supporting -aligned Spells-Matters decks, or if a 3-mana removal spell at sorcery speed ain't playable in your format, then I can certainly understand passing on em, but they're loads of fun and my drafters get real happy when they can tap into such a simple, low-effort ~synergy play~. The only reason Oath of Chandra isn't in my list is because I'm constantly screeching and making blood sacrifices to keep Pyromancer's Goggles as good as I can make it

 

[anotak]

CONFESSION: I thought it was 5 mana not 4 and damn that thing is going in immediately

this makes way more sense

 

[Diakonov]

There's a few reasons for me. One is that I do indeed run an enchantment theme in BGW. I also think the rider for planeswalkers is much better than it looks, because it gives you a blocker to defend your fresh planeswalker with!

I just added Seal of Doom to see how it works with my enchantment theme and delirium. Just placing that idea here and kicking it over to you.