Erik's "The cool side of Magic" cube
- Thread starter Erik Twice
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Have to agree. I’ve drafted some unique decks with this insect, but it’s a payoff for a subset of the artifact archetype. It comes together so rarely that it’s a dubious use of a guild slot.
This is a complete trap.
Kind of. I’ve drafted your cube a bunch of times where I see an early Replenish and try to draft around it, but it works 50% of the time maybe?
Hey, this works and is fun!
Sometimes the packs work out so that you have few enchantments to recur. Sometimes you have the enchantments, but few ways to get them into the GY (thanks White!). Other times you want a redundant enchantment payoff but there are none.
It’s still a fine inclusion since it’s one slot and most enchantments you run are fine, but sometimes feels like a trap!
It definitely feels more like a payoff for generating a bunch of treasure tokens or other trinket-y garbage that you're going to crack for value anyway, or if you're leaning into stuff like Kavaron Harrier/Kuldotha Rebirth/Sokenzan Smelter for a Pauper-style artifact-themed aggro archetype, where stapling 2 damage to villain's face onto whatever else you're doing is just what the doctor ordered.
Some random thoughts:
This is the only card that gives you card advantage without costing you a spell slot.
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White had too many good 1-drops, making it too easy to draft aggro. I'm getting Giant Killer back in, because a tapper is unique, the spell is interesting too and it's playable even when it's not ideal.
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As far as aggro artifacts go, density is more important than actual quality. The goal is to play power cards like Cranial Platting, Steel Overseer or Arcbound Ravager so the disruption offered by Phyrexian Revoker seems more valuable now than the semi-synergy of Syr Ginger. It's also a much cleaner card.
Besides, I've always found the whole "Syr" thing to be kind of cringe.
Adding this has been a huge success. It's early interaction, which is exactly what green lacks. I like that it's limited to 3 mana or less and it doesn't exile, I feel it would be too much of a silver bullet otherwise.
These cards are a bit narrow and not too great so I ended up cutting them long ago. Yet, I think I made a mistake. Without these type of cards, the aggro human deck simply lacks a reason to move into WG and WB. The moment I put them back, I started to see decks on those colours again.
Champion is a bit binary, but its ability to close games make it both different and enough of a payoff to justify its 1GG cost. It makes you want to draft equipment in green, Mutagenic Growth or Berserk, all of which makes the cube better overall.
Xathrid Necromancer isn't always better that Midnight reaper, but it s a human-lord and both WG and BR decks can make use of him. It's also a different kind of effect, which is something I value. Given I have free slots, it's well worth the addition.
Unlike Master of Death, which is a decent creature on its own and has relevant creature types, Squee is pretty bad. But I've found it necessary to use Bazaar of Baghdad and provide redundancy. I would replace it with something else, but there are only two creatures with this "return to hand" effect.
This is the only card that gives you card advantage without costing you a spell slot.
-> White had too many good 1-drops, making it too easy to draft aggro. I'm getting Giant Killer back in, because a tapper is unique, the spell is interesting too and it's playable even when it's not ideal.
-> As far as aggro artifacts go, density is more important than actual quality. The goal is to play power cards like Cranial Platting, Steel Overseer or Arcbound Ravager so the disruption offered by Phyrexian Revoker seems more valuable now than the semi-synergy of Syr Ginger. It's also a much cleaner card.
Besides, I've always found the whole "Syr" thing to be kind of cringe.
Adding this has been a huge success. It's early interaction, which is exactly what green lacks. I like that it's limited to 3 mana or less and it doesn't exile, I feel it would be too much of a silver bullet otherwise.
These cards are a bit narrow and not too great so I ended up cutting them long ago. Yet, I think I made a mistake. Without these type of cards, the aggro human deck simply lacks a reason to move into WG and WB. The moment I put them back, I started to see decks on those colours again.
Champion is a bit binary, but its ability to close games make it both different and enough of a payoff to justify its 1GG cost. It makes you want to draft equipment in green, Mutagenic Growth or Berserk, all of which makes the cube better overall.
Xathrid Necromancer isn't always better that Midnight reaper, but it s a human-lord and both WG and BR decks can make use of him. It's also a different kind of effect, which is something I value. Given I have free slots, it's well worth the addition.
Unlike Master of Death, which is a decent creature on its own and has relevant creature types, Squee is pretty bad. But I've found it necessary to use Bazaar of Baghdad and provide redundancy. I would replace it with something else, but there are only two creatures with this "return to hand" effect.
So, I decided to add Mishra's Workshop and Sphere of Resistance on a whim and...they work? They have suddenly made borderline cards that costed 3 mana or stuff like Goblin Welder have a real home.
This is one of the best example decks I've drafted. It has powerful stuff, but it doesn't seem broken in any way:
This one might actually be better but it's just cool because it features some Bazaar action:
I like that decks using it can be quite clunky and hard to draft:
Power seems about right. Most notably, all these decks would be better off with Ancient Tomb to power out non-artifacts.
My hope is that Sphere of Resistance sees play in ramp decks, but I've only gotten or two so far.
This is one of the best example decks I've drafted. It has powerful stuff, but it doesn't seem broken in any way:
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This one might actually be better but it's just cool because it features some Bazaar action:
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I like that decks using it can be quite clunky and hard to draft:
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Power seems about right. Most notably, all these decks would be better off with Ancient Tomb to power out non-artifacts.
My hope is that Sphere of Resistance sees play in ramp decks, but I've only gotten or two so far.
Stax was a success, but there are still a bunch of open slots in my cube that aren't doing anything. Why not make me any random suggestions or replacements? Any archetypes or ideas I could try to support?
Some that do something but perhaps not enough for the slot:
Tarmogoyf and Wall of Blossoms are too similar, probably the second will be gone soon.
Sandstorm Salvager is fine, but it's one 3 mana card too much and it does little unique compared to all other green three drops.
Oath is unique, but it can be a both narrow and brutal, particularly as a sideboard card.
Once Upon a Time seems like an autoinclude, not a real decision pusher.
REDUNDANT CARDS
These are all cards that work, but that I have too many "copies" or similar effects of.
Nethergoyf - Competes with Gravecrawler, Scrapheap Scrounger and Bloodsoaked Champion
Mire Triton - This is the second copy of Stitcher's Supplier but the introduction of Overlord of the Balemurk has pushed it out
Kitsa, Otterball Elite - Great, powerful card that pushes out other more interesting, unique discard outlets like Waterfront Bouncer
Murderous Rider - Just a good card, but it's not necessary by any means
I'm really at the point that I just don't know what other archetypes I can support or how. I have the space, just not the imagination for it.
Some that do something but perhaps not enough for the slot:
Tarmogoyf and Wall of Blossoms are too similar, probably the second will be gone soon.
Sandstorm Salvager is fine, but it's one 3 mana card too much and it does little unique compared to all other green three drops.
Oath is unique, but it can be a both narrow and brutal, particularly as a sideboard card.
Once Upon a Time seems like an autoinclude, not a real decision pusher.
REDUNDANT CARDS
These are all cards that work, but that I have too many "copies" or similar effects of.
Nethergoyf - Competes with Gravecrawler, Scrapheap Scrounger and Bloodsoaked Champion
Mire Triton - This is the second copy of Stitcher's Supplier but the introduction of Overlord of the Balemurk has pushed it out
Kitsa, Otterball Elite - Great, powerful card that pushes out other more interesting, unique discard outlets like Waterfront Bouncer
Murderous Rider - Just a good card, but it's not necessary by any means
I'm really at the point that I just don't know what other archetypes I can support or how. I have the space, just not the imagination for it.
Where do you land on the persist combo? For some reason I think it would be a great fit in your cube.
Metallic Mimic would be an enabler that works with zombies and humans. You have played The Great Henge already. Putrid Goblin and Kitchen Finks could be your combo creatures.
Devoted Druid combo or no, is a nice counter payoff
Winota, joiner of forces is a cool human payoff imo.
While not necessary, if you have free slots, the 1 mana land cyclers from LoTR really help at smoothing draws and will likely increase your cube’s consistency at avoiding non-games.
Detective’s Phoenix shoots up in value if you do.
More utility lands? Eiganjo, Otawara, Academy Ruins, Volrath’s Stronghold, Phyrexian Tower, Shifting Woodlands are all high impact cards that virtually increase slot density in your decks.
Metallic Mimic would be an enabler that works with zombies and humans. You have played The Great Henge already. Putrid Goblin and Kitchen Finks could be your combo creatures.
Devoted Druid combo or no, is a nice counter payoff
Winota, joiner of forces is a cool human payoff imo.
While not necessary, if you have free slots, the 1 mana land cyclers from LoTR really help at smoothing draws and will likely increase your cube’s consistency at avoiding non-games.
Detective’s Phoenix shoots up in value if you do.
More utility lands? Eiganjo, Otawara, Academy Ruins, Volrath’s Stronghold, Phyrexian Tower, Shifting Woodlands are all high impact cards that virtually increase slot density in your decks.
I haven't seriously thought of it, I'm not sure of how it would work, but I'll do some research.
I dislike the LoTR land cyclers because they are extremely high picks, I'm not surprised one of them is already banned on Legacy. They also simplify some decks too much.
I used to run Winota, but it got cut at some point. Perhaps I should try her again, moving Overlord of the Boilerbilges to red (it's currently RW).
I should probably run Otawara and replace Kinnan with Shifting Woodlands. I'm scared of Eiganjo because it can be recurred and it doesn't seem too fun.
Volrath's Stronghold seemed too easy of a "slot in" and very oppressive with certain cards. It just gave decks a late-game loop with no effort.
Phyrexian Tower and Academy Ruins don't seem worth the slot so far.
I dislike the LoTR land cyclers because they are extremely high picks, I'm not surprised one of them is already banned on Legacy. They also simplify some decks too much.
I used to run Winota, but it got cut at some point. Perhaps I should try her again, moving Overlord of the Boilerbilges to red (it's currently RW).
I should probably run Otawara and replace Kinnan with Shifting Woodlands. I'm scared of Eiganjo because it can be recurred and it doesn't seem too fun.
Volrath's Stronghold seemed too easy of a "slot in" and very oppressive with certain cards. It just gave decks a late-game loop with no effort.
Phyrexian Tower and Academy Ruins don't seem worth the slot so far.
I’ll push back a bit on this one. I’ve struggled to make Green naturally fit into artifacts. Counters are one way, tokens/Earthcraft another and maybe delirium.
One of Green’s strengths is the lands matter theme. So having a land that cares about artifacts is actually huge since you can easily tutor it and recur it as part of a self-mill deck. This opens the door to grindy GY/land/artifact decks for little opportunity cost, and gives redundancy to Emry. I think Ruins is important in that regard and gets even better with Gifts Ungiven should you run it.
Some random thoughts:
I currently run Goblin Welder and Goblin Engineer for redundancy but the latter...isn't always good. I mean, in the right deck it's better than Welder but the deck is fragile enough as it is without having to limit yourself to 3 mana artifacts. So I wonder if I should just squadron it. Pick it and take two copies of Welder.
The same goes for Birthing Ritual and Birthing Pod. Should I just put both of them in a squadron pick?
Talking about Welder, I like Arena of Glory a lot for the deck. It takes no space but it lets you actually use your gameplan in the face of removal.
However, it's not limited to just Welder. There are a bunch of other cards and archetypes that benefit from it, from going stompy with Flametongue Kavu and Terror of the Peaks, to pushing with a late Dreadhorde Arcanist. It doesn't do much for decks that are already good, they don't need the haste, so it's a much better inclusion than I thought.
Talking about underrated cards, everyone is sleeping on Oscorp Industries / Exclusive Nightclub, likely because of the art. But it's a fantastic pick for discard decks. It increases your discard fodder count without taking spell slots, is worth a look on its own because it fixes your mana and is not a bad pick for other decks, either.
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On the other hand, Loki's Scepter has been pretty bad. It's just a sorcery speed 3-mana threaten effect. The ramp is irrelevant to the decks that want the effect and it's not actually good with Welder.
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Practiced Offense is unique, not just because it's a mass pump spell, but because it's permanent and keeps you in the game. Most cards like this are Overrun effects that you only play to win, but you can play Practiced Offense at most points and have it be worth your time. The boost plus the lifelink and, above all, the fact that you get two uses make this a fantastic addition to cube.
I currently run Goblin Welder and Goblin Engineer for redundancy but the latter...isn't always good. I mean, in the right deck it's better than Welder but the deck is fragile enough as it is without having to limit yourself to 3 mana artifacts. So I wonder if I should just squadron it. Pick it and take two copies of Welder.
The same goes for Birthing Ritual and Birthing Pod. Should I just put both of them in a squadron pick?
Talking about Welder, I like Arena of Glory a lot for the deck. It takes no space but it lets you actually use your gameplan in the face of removal.
However, it's not limited to just Welder. There are a bunch of other cards and archetypes that benefit from it, from going stompy with Flametongue Kavu and Terror of the Peaks, to pushing with a late Dreadhorde Arcanist. It doesn't do much for decks that are already good, they don't need the haste, so it's a much better inclusion than I thought.
Talking about underrated cards, everyone is sleeping on Oscorp Industries / Exclusive Nightclub, likely because of the art. But it's a fantastic pick for discard decks. It increases your discard fodder count without taking spell slots, is worth a look on its own because it fixes your mana and is not a bad pick for other decks, either.
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On the other hand, Loki's Scepter has been pretty bad. It's just a sorcery speed 3-mana threaten effect. The ramp is irrelevant to the decks that want the effect and it's not actually good with Welder.
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Practiced Offense is unique, not just because it's a mass pump spell, but because it's permanent and keeps you in the game. Most cards like this are Overrun effects that you only play to win, but you can play Practiced Offense at most points and have it be worth your time. The boost plus the lifelink and, above all, the fact that you get two uses make this a fantastic addition to cube.
Is there a reason you want to squadron rather than breaking singleton for Welder?
Pod would be a good candidate for sure if you go that route.
I share your experience with Loki’s Scepter, it’s in an awkward spot and rarely makes the main deck of my test drafts.
Offense single-handedly helped my white section participate in the GY and discard ecosystem and has been a fantastic addition. Also really like Hardened Academic in that GY aggro space. It’s easy to trigger and buffs your creatures often. Together Boros discard comes up a lot more frequently!
Pod would be a good candidate for sure if you go that route.
I share your experience with Loki’s Scepter, it’s in an awkward spot and rarely makes the main deck of my test drafts.
Offense single-handedly helped my white section participate in the GY and discard ecosystem and has been a fantastic addition. Also really like Hardened Academic in that GY aggro space. It’s easy to trigger and buffs your creatures often. Together Boros discard comes up a lot more frequently!
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I already break it with Goblin Engineer but it feels...awkward.
In practice, Welder only sees play in a small amount of archetypes and it needs support even in those. This means there's not a lot of competition for it and, at the same time, spending picks on it during the draft is costly. Yet, I've increased the supply of this low-demand by giving it two slots. Ideally, that's the opposite of what I should be doing.
On the other hand, squadroning Welder would both make it more valuable as a pick (so it's less costly to speculate on it) without artificially increasing the supply.
I'm also...not too fond of Goblin Engineer. Look, when it works it's good but...the massive reduction in targets works against it half of the time.
I needed a boros card so I'll give it a whirl!
@Nanonox was right, Hardened Academic has been a great addition!
It's not a card that you build around or that creates a new archetype, but it has increased deckbuilding variety just by existing. It's a support card for several, overlapping archetypes so you often take it for one theme and end up it for a second one:
- Haste 2/1 flyer.
- Lifelink
- Discard outlet
- +1/+1 counters
It's not life-changing, but I have seen an uptick in Boros discard decks the moment I added it. Phlage, Titan of Fire's Fury is already a good card and they work well together in midrange, heavy discard and even controll-ish shells.
It's a shame there are not many black or red creates with +1/+1 counters, if there were any, I think there would be more crossover with white.
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I run one too many black graveyard creatures, particularly after the addition of Darklight Phoenix. Gravecrawler is staying so that leaves me with:
Bloodsoaked Champion helps bridge sacrifice and humans. WB Aggro is less common lately than I would hope, though.
Bloodghast is, theorically, playable in any deck and can be abused by bringing it back several times a turn. However, I don't see that too often and the 2/1 body makes me a bit unhappy. Perhaps I should pair it with more equipment, not just expect to go in with nothing.
Scrapheap Scrounger should be worse than it is, but I like its natural 3/2 body. It's big enough to not be blocked freely and it's scary with equipment. Still, I suspect it's one of the most likely cuts. I might like it better than Bloodghast but, objectively, I don't know if I would choose it over its landfall friend.
Prized Amalgam is good and promotes graveyard decks, but I feel I might already have too many "free" creatures that wheel to this deck, as I have Vengevine, Darklight Phoenix, Anger, Blazing Rootwalla and Basking Rootwalla. It ends up being a free pick and an autoinclude. I could cut it or a rootwalla and not lose too much.
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I put these on my cube and I like the cards but I've yet to build a good deck with them:
There are a couple problems with this build. The first is that, if you use these, you need to win that turn. That means storm, which means Tendrils of Agony or maaaaybe Chatterstorm and Awaken the Woods. Even if you stretch into other colours, that's not a lot of ways to win and you often lack any.
The deck is fragile because it relies on a bunch of 1-ofs like those two cards, Fastbond or Yawghmoth's Will. It doesn't benefit much from Lion's Eye Diamond or Dark Ritual, either, and it often needs to splash for key cards. Green is also lacking in defensive options for combo. Life loss is an issue, both Fastbond and Ominous Harvest can kill you quite fast. Ultimately, the deck looks like it could work but that it will fall apart.
Ultimately, if Squandered Resources also let you sacrifice creatures...then we would talk. But like this, it's tough.
It's not a card that you build around or that creates a new archetype, but it has increased deckbuilding variety just by existing. It's a support card for several, overlapping archetypes so you often take it for one theme and end up it for a second one:
- Haste 2/1 flyer.
- Lifelink
- Discard outlet
- +1/+1 counters
It's not life-changing, but I have seen an uptick in Boros discard decks the moment I added it. Phlage, Titan of Fire's Fury is already a good card and they work well together in midrange, heavy discard and even controll-ish shells.
It's a shame there are not many black or red creates with +1/+1 counters, if there were any, I think there would be more crossover with white.
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I run one too many black graveyard creatures, particularly after the addition of Darklight Phoenix. Gravecrawler is staying so that leaves me with:
Bloodsoaked Champion helps bridge sacrifice and humans. WB Aggro is less common lately than I would hope, though.
Bloodghast is, theorically, playable in any deck and can be abused by bringing it back several times a turn. However, I don't see that too often and the 2/1 body makes me a bit unhappy. Perhaps I should pair it with more equipment, not just expect to go in with nothing.
Scrapheap Scrounger should be worse than it is, but I like its natural 3/2 body. It's big enough to not be blocked freely and it's scary with equipment. Still, I suspect it's one of the most likely cuts. I might like it better than Bloodghast but, objectively, I don't know if I would choose it over its landfall friend.
Prized Amalgam is good and promotes graveyard decks, but I feel I might already have too many "free" creatures that wheel to this deck, as I have Vengevine, Darklight Phoenix, Anger, Blazing Rootwalla and Basking Rootwalla. It ends up being a free pick and an autoinclude. I could cut it or a rootwalla and not lose too much.
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I put these on my cube and I like the cards but I've yet to build a good deck with them:
There are a couple problems with this build. The first is that, if you use these, you need to win that turn. That means storm, which means Tendrils of Agony or maaaaybe Chatterstorm and Awaken the Woods. Even if you stretch into other colours, that's not a lot of ways to win and you often lack any.
The deck is fragile because it relies on a bunch of 1-ofs like those two cards, Fastbond or Yawghmoth's Will. It doesn't benefit much from Lion's Eye Diamond or Dark Ritual, either, and it often needs to splash for key cards. Green is also lacking in defensive options for combo. Life loss is an issue, both Fastbond and Ominous Harvest can kill you quite fast. Ultimately, the deck looks like it could work but that it will fall apart.
Ultimately, if Squandered Resources also let you sacrifice creatures...then we would talk. But like this, it's tough.
Glad you liked it as much as I did.
Black I am not convinced, but Red? At least close in regards to GY/Discard strategies (+ Practiced Offense)
I like Amalgam least here, I find it too feast or famine. It's either a mediocre, multi-colored beater or a free card you return every turn when you draft a good version of GY/discard aggro. The free aspect I am fine with, as I find having these 0 mana creatures let aggressive deck feel unfair. Basically, I don't like it depending on other creatures to trigger. Same reason I didn't love Poxwalkers.
I want these to work in my cube, so I put in some effort and dedicated slots to enable them more easily.
There are a couple problems with this build. The first is that, if you use these, you need to win that turn. That means storm, which means Tendrils of Agony or maaaaybe Chatterstorm and Awaken the Woods. Even if you stretch into other colours, that's not a lot of ways to win and you often lack any.
Squandered Resources (SR) is a mana engine so you need a payoff and ideally some recursion to make the downside of sacrificing your lands palatable.
Alongside other options like Fastbond + Yawgmoth's Will/Crucible of Worlds. While less explosive, Toph, Hardheaded Teacher can also give you repeated recursion for sacrificing your lands.
These three effectively double your mana potential with SR and can really get degenerate with other cards (like Shifting Woodlands for Analyst and Ephemerate for Lumra). Second Sunrise cares about the three biggest card types you typically want to sacrifice, making it less narrow than it looks. If you are messing around with these, landfall becomes a legitimate payoff. Hedron Crab can mill them out and Springheart Nantuko or Bloodghast can give you a ton of extra sacrifice triggers if you also have a creature sacrifice outlet.
Regarding payoffs, Ominous Harvest is a good one for sacrificing and there are a few others that reward mass sacrifice
Harvest can also be a win condition depending on the situation since you can target your opponent if you have enough sacrifices.
Another category of decks where I like SR is in mana denial decks.
In response to your wrath, you sacrifice your lands and land a big threat after it resolves, breaking the symmetry. Kind of like Greater Gargadon or Knight of the Reliquary/Titania, Protector of Argoth.
Tl;dr: You need a wide sacrifice web that you mostly already have to make SR shine. I'd say Toph and Lumra might be the biggest missing pieces to make it pop more regularly.
An Abzan GY/sacrifice deck
A BG self-mill deck
A Jund combo deck
Regarding Ominous Harvest, I think you are missing a few ungated artifact sacrifice outlets for it to be really good. You have creatures and lands in spades, but only Arcbound Ravager that can do that for artifacts. If you have more, there will be an increase in competition for Harvest I think. It's the type of card that doesn't always come together though.