General Fight Club

Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Rowan_CB said:
Which of these is more successful in mitigating the downside of auras?:

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See, Spirit Loop has the right idea, but it's really inefficient. Nobody wants to pay two mana for a lifelink aura. Well, except the time I used Spirit Loop in a casual {W/U} Auratog deck. Felidar Umbra at least has totem armor, which makes it somewhat more palatable, but it's still effectively a lifelink aura for two mana. I want my aura's to give a stat buff or to be a removal spell! If you can make on of these worth it though, I belief Felidar Umbra would be my pick, because it protects the creature it enchants.
 
sigh

sigh

Neither are really that good tbh. Totem Armor is better in general, I think, because it saves the creature. The creature is usually the more important half of the equation than the individual aura. Totem Armor might, for example, save another Aura or two that is also attached to that creature.

I don't know if the fight has to be on a lifelink aura, but I think the most successful "safe" aura's are bestow creatures:


and the specific effect:
 
inscho

inscho

I think I like your custom the most of the three. I run Return to the Ranks in my cube, but the 2cmc threshold is super frustrating at times...most of the coolest stuff to recur is at 3cmc. Ranks feels mostly set up for a combo out turn with Blood Artist, Goblin Bombardment, etc. Rebirth can still function in that way, but also has utility in making value plays and recursive loops. Rebirth will almost always be better than Servitude. In cube, it's rare that you have more than 3 of one given CMC creature in your graveyard.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I'ld advocate removing basic landcycling from this (unless you like it) :)

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Featherhall

Featherhall

UGH



I have a link to my cube now, but it's under heavy revisions at this point in an attempt to reign in some of the power level (e.g.: had recently cut Splinter Twin, and am looking to cut Whip of Erebos (though cannot bring myself to do it yet, I want my Obzedat + Whip degeneracy!)). To explain, I'm attempting to balance all color pairings with a wedge, making one color a "Primary" payoff color, then the other two colors as support. Currently:
Spell Matters (Jeskai):
Primary - Blue
Secondary: White (Spell Tempo), Red (Prowess Aggro)

Graveyard Interactions (Sultai)
Primary - Black
Secondary: Blue (Reanimator), Green (Delerium)

Tokens (Mardu)
Primary - Red
Secondary: Black (Sacrifice/Aristrocrats), White (Go Wide Aggro)

Big Mana/Land Matters (Temur)
Primary - Green
Secondary: Red (Wildfire), Blue (Ramp into Fatties)

... (um, Abzan)
Primary: White
Secondary: ...

Currently, White (and Green) have sort of an identity crisis, as I'm not sure to commit to either +1/+1 counters, life gain, enchantments, or something else altogether. So getting back to the topic at hand - Which Gideon should I be using. Gideon Jura seems to only support control, while Ally Gideon seems to really only support tokens. I am hoping you guys can convince me into one or the other (or neither).
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Much as I despise both of those cards, I'd go with 4 mana Gideon. Jura promotes really repetitive, really stale, really conservative play. The - 2 is sweet, but it puts this otherwise resilient Walker in a modicum of danger, so most players will just continually +2 it, going in as a creature only when it's completely safe. Is like Ajani Goldman, except it prolongs the game instead of ending it.

4 mana Gideon is super powerful, but the creature mode gets used a lot more because it's a plus, and you'll (usually) have a Creature or two to swing alongside him, which opens up the possibilitiy of an ultimate. You can also just churn out anthems with him if you've got eternal witness or the like.
 
Peter LaCara

Peter LaCara

Neither. Instead, can I interest you in one of these:



For the following reasons:

1) Big Cat dudes are objectively cooler than generic white dudes with brown hair.
2) They are more interesting support cards (I especially like the graveyard interaction with Adversary)
3) If you absolutely must run a Gideon, run this one. He can support both aggro and control, and is less one-dimensional than either of the above options.
 
inscho

inscho

I have a soft spot for withdraw. It’s a far more interesting card. It can be a tempo blowout if you catch your opponent tapped out, really screw up combat bouncing their unguarded attacker and your blocker before damage, bounce their guy EOT along with your ETB bro, etc. Its a far more skill testing, challenging card, and more than worth the double blue cmc.

I don’t really love expel. It seems fine just fairly unexciting compared to withdraw.
 
ravnic

ravnic

Good, I had a similar intention. Withdraw just hasn't seen zero play so far in the 7 or 8 drafts since it was added to the Cube. Maybe just bad luck. Even the basic Unsummon gets maindecked regularly.
 
inscho

inscho

Do you think that's a symptom of the color balance of the types of decks that would want to play withdraw? For instance, if blue is the secondary color in an Azorius skies archetype, that double blue casting cost becomes a lot more cumbersome and less desirable. If blue is more frequently a splash color in tempo decks, I'd suggest:



Which is an awesome card.
 
ravnic

ravnic

I'm pretty sure that's not the reason. Counterspell and Boomerang are in the Cube basically since day 1 and they see play, although Boomerang could be played a little more often too. Also, fixing just got better with the inclusion of shocklands.
 
ravnic

ravnic

It's not the same, more like bouncing two lands, of which one was EtB. And in the six years I'm running both, it hasn't happened once in the early game. Like, who cares all that much about it turn 7?
 
RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

ravnic said:
It's not the same, more like bouncing two lands, of which one was EtB. And in the six years I'm running both, it hasn't happened once in the early game. Like, who cares all that much about it turn 7?
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that says more about your playgroup and your format than it does about how unfun and match-spoiling allowing someone's first two land drops getting bounced in the early game can be. it's cool that your format is forgiving enough to tolerate someone's first two land drops potentially getting bounced and your players are lax enough to not ever attempt it, but it's a pretty obvious interaction that I would expect most any seasoned player to capitalize on eventually, assuming your list is being played regularly by people who are knowledgeable of the game. obviously the likelihood of this interaction coming up goes down considerably if it's an infrequent pickup, if blue is considered weak, if your players are mostly new, or if you have a lot of new players cycling in and out of the group, but the interaction is still pretty punishing most anywhere it gets performed.
 
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