Yeah those two are definetely upgrades. I just wish we had a good Boros one. We have seen three blocks give us spell lands and still no decent Boros.
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
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Yeah those two are definetely upgrades. I just wish we had a good Boros one. We have seen three blocks give us spell lands and still no decent Boros.
I think considering you'd be at Turn 7 or so by the time you can compare the two, that you've to the stage of the game when looting is more relevant than pyroclasm. The scry does mess with that calculation though.
I prefer conditional removal so:
1. Heartless Act (I think there's enough creatures counters and tricks that grant counters in most cubes to make this fairly conditional)
2. Ultimate Price (This hit's a lot)
3. Go for the Throat (This hits almost everything)
1. Heartless Act (I think there's enough creatures counters and tricks that grant counters in most cubes to make this fairly conditional)
2. Ultimate Price (This hit's a lot)
3. Go for the Throat (This hits almost everything)
Your reference to the TitI synergy is what inspired me
. I also like conditional removal, I just don't want it to be too conditional. I worry that Heartless Act is a little too randomly conditional compared to the very clear boundaries of the other two or of something like doom blade. That may not be a problem if unconditional removal is also present but kept to 3+ CMC slots (Hero's downfall, for example).
Yeah, that is one way to look at it, but am I going to feel happy that I brought the 3/3 Solemn Recruit back to a 2/2 instead of actually dealing with it? Not super much. Obviously still some effect, but I'm not sure I'd waste the card on doing it, unless I had no other choice. I'd probably rather point the 100% kill to another creature without any counters.
Edit: the anti-synergy with undying is pretty funny. Positive synergy with persist I suppose.
Edit: the anti-synergy with undying is pretty funny. Positive synergy with persist I suppose.
3. Heartless Act. It's basically a Murderblade except for when it isn't. That wouldn't be a problem in of itself, but the issue lies in what condition makes it not a hard kill effect. Counters on creatures is a very random stipulation. You might need to outright kill a creature with a counters on it, but won't be able to due to the random restriction.
Pick your fave or rank them, suggest other options, etc, just tell me why please
2. Ultimate Price. I like this card a lot. It's restriction also tends not to hit gold "signpost" creatures, which is a big plus for some formats. I would have this tied for 1., but it is a little bit worse than Go for the Throat.
1. Go for the Throat. It's an efficient removal spell, not much more to say.
Card you didn't mention: Cast Down. Cast Down is awesome because it tends to miss a lot of engine pieces. Ever since WOTC started to support Commander as a primary format, a lot of the "cool" creature cards are now legendary. Cast Down can deal with efficient threats like Bonecrusher Giant and Siege Rhino effectively, but spares several unique engine pieces such as The Gitrog Monster and Grumgully, the Generous.
Pick your fave or rank them, suggest other options, etc, just tell me why please
I'd go with Go For the Throat, Ultimate Price, and Heartless Act in that order. GFTH is just wildly efficient and hits just about every target you'd need in Cube and of the conditional removal you've listed, it's the most universally applicable. I'd say 9/10 times it's just straight up removal. Ultimate Price is also pretty solid as the majority of threats do end up being monocolored so you've got a pretty good hit rate. I haven't cubed with Heartless Act but it seems like an alright option, especially if you're deploying any counters themes to create some more decision-making scenarios. It's going to feel bad if you run into a big body that has a single +1/+1 counter though, but that might jut make it more appealing depending on your environment.
The higher your power level, the less restrictions you're gonna want in general. I love Cast Down as an option with many of the flashier/more interesting cards nowadays being printed as legendary creatures. And I haven't had a physical cube session with it, but I'm a big fan of Eliminate as a means of dealing with early threats and low CMC walkers.
In the same vein but with maybe the opposite rationale as Trainmaster (I can see arguments for both approaches to treating legendaries differently), I could see Price of Fame being a potential option. I like the conditionality in mana cost for similar reasons LadyMapi pointed out Heartless Act is partially conditional. This feels more like 4 cmc removal to me, but thought I'd throw it into the ring regardless.
I like Price and Cast. Two mana is such a good deal for a removal spell that I like leaving some key cards out of it.
Act and Throat I'd only run if it missed a significant amount of my environment. An artifact-based cube could be a cool home to restrict both of these a bit. Act probably still rips off most of the counters from things it can't kill, so maybe it's still a bit much?
All that said, having some efficient removal spells likely isn't going to be too problematic. Throw all four of these into the same cube and they'll all see play. I just think it's a little more interesting when the 1 and 2 mana removal spells have a real downside.
Act and Throat I'd only run if it missed a significant amount of my environment. An artifact-based cube could be a cool home to restrict both of these a bit. Act probably still rips off most of the counters from things it can't kill, so maybe it's still a bit much?
All that said, having some efficient removal spells likely isn't going to be too problematic. Throw all four of these into the same cube and they'll all see play. I just think it's a little more interesting when the 1 and 2 mana removal spells have a real downside.
As always it depends on your format.
If I were to rank them without seeing your format:
Collective Brutality > Cast Down > Heartless Act > Ultimate Price > Chainer’s Edict > Easy Prey > Go for the Throat > Shriekmaw and Doom Blade > Price of Fame
The article by Ondezeeboot explains why Brutality is at the top.
https://cubecobra.com/content/article/6022ce1c03235a7690cfdfc0
Cast Down protects legendary creatures which is where I want my cheap removal spells to be at. Easy Prey is in the same family. Heartless should be high up there unless you have no counters in your cube. Chainer’s attack on a different angle. Color hate is never what you want unless it is specific and super efficient (example Mystical Dispute) because then you can use them as sideboard picks. Price of Fame is the opposite of what you want.
If I were to rank them without seeing your format:
Collective Brutality > Cast Down > Heartless Act > Ultimate Price > Chainer’s Edict > Easy Prey > Go for the Throat > Shriekmaw and Doom Blade > Price of Fame
The article by Ondezeeboot explains why Brutality is at the top.
https://cubecobra.com/content/article/6022ce1c03235a7690cfdfc0
Cast Down protects legendary creatures which is where I want my cheap removal spells to be at. Easy Prey is in the same family. Heartless should be high up there unless you have no counters in your cube. Chainer’s attack on a different angle. Color hate is never what you want unless it is specific and super efficient (example Mystical Dispute) because then you can use them as sideboard picks. Price of Fame is the opposite of what you want.
Mirrorlake probably! It's a really good card, and I think it's a little cleaner than the creature because of "Partner" (which sure you can ignore but hey! I think it's a little cluttery).
These aren't really comparable outside of being U/G. I have not been too impressed by Littjara mirror lake in ~20 drafts of Kaldheim, but the best thing you can really do with it in that format on average is clone a Ravenous Lindwurm or maybe a Sarulf's Packmate if you're lucky. Looking at your cube, I'm seeing maybe 6 targets in U/G that seem better to clone than a Ravenous Lindwurm, so perhaps the density is there. Thrassios is a lot more powerful than the mirrorlake, but I'm unsure as to wether or not it actually has a positive impact on a cube environment.
Which of these simic midrange goodies do you like more and why?
I guess the real question is, what are you trying to achieve with these cards?
Thrasios looks strong, but it doesn't raise red flags to me. 4 mana to activate an ability that doesn't affect the board (well, it puts lands into play) is a significant amount, and it can snowball with time, but not by itself, as just drawing cards and playing lands accomplishes nothing.
I like all the Kaldheim utility lands! In draft it's fine in terms of power level, but sort of unexciting and bland because as Train said it's often copying a big common beater. I believe it suffers from snow duals coming into play tapped, so that playing more tapped lands is a bigger liability. Mirrorlake thus might be a lot more interesting in cube.
I think I would test the Mirrorlake because I like that people dip deeper into their sideboards, but both seem like good options.
I like all the Kaldheim utility lands! In draft it's fine in terms of power level, but sort of unexciting and bland because as Train said it's often copying a big common beater. I believe it suffers from snow duals coming into play tapped, so that playing more tapped lands is a bigger liability. Mirrorlake thus might be a lot more interesting in cube.
I think I would test the Mirrorlake because I like that people dip deeper into their sideboards, but both seem like good options.
Mirrorlake makes me want to look for combos with Molderhulk, Quarry Beetle, Sun Titan, etc. As does the UB reanimation land. Unfortunately, it's hard to get a density of land-returner effects due to the power levels varying wildly.
Thrasios makes me want to block a few times and maybe get some value later.
Neither excites me too much, but Lake makes me think more. There's quite possibly some fun to be had with the bonus +1/+1 counter, too. All I found on a quick search was Incubation Druid there.
Thrasios makes me want to block a few times and maybe get some value later.
Neither excites me too much, but Lake makes me think more. There's quite possibly some fun to be had with the bonus +1/+1 counter, too. All I found on a quick search was Incubation Druid there.
I'd like to remind everyone also that a spell land is a "free" spell, which to me makes it significantly better than it would be otherwise.
I like both of them, lifegain is really good in aggressive matchups, while Clarion Spirit isn't a token spammer as much as Young Pyro, but the tokens come with flying and spawn even if you're playing creature spells.
Personally, I'd say Spirit > Seeker
Personally, I'd say Spirit > Seeker
