General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
A comic about the worst magic-related joke ever, nice.
I think I'll give the guy sitting in a tree a chance first. Being snowbally is a downside for me indeed, but I don't have the simic spot for Investigation.
If I'd run enchantments, Ongoing Investigation and Ulvenwald Mysteries would be tested immediately.
Let me necro that one thread..
These cards aren't really comparable other than being black 5 drops. Gravebreaker Lamia is a little better on average since it "tutors" for something when it enters the battlefield. Bone Miser is a cooler engine, but there is a really high chance that it dies before getting to do anything. I think the "correct" choice really depends on what deck needs the additional support, and wether or not a fragile engine piece is able to beat out immediate value.vs
I am strongly looking into Gravebreaker Lamia for my cube as a "fixed" final parting with bonus flashback synergy. Particularly awesome with Retrace!
The Miser looks cool, but probably comes down too late to be able to properly fuel it.
The Miser looks cool, but probably comes down too late to be able to properly fuel it.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I wonder if it actually is a weaker card. Lifelink is a good keyword.
That's a good point. Let me rephrase that to "Bone Miser has a much higher ceiling than the Lamia, with a somewhat lower floor." Lifelink is good, but a 4/4 for 5 without an ability that helps it win in combat is behind the curve for most cubes I've seen, at least in terms of attacking. The lifelink is very helpful on defense, though, so if you need a more defensive enabler, Lamia may be your choice.
However, Lamia is held back by restricting her graveyard ability to a one-time deal that has diminishing returns. Tutoring a card to the graveyard is much narrower than gaining free extra value every time you discard. How many cards are you going to have that you actually want to stick in your GY? Genesis? Hogaak? A reanimation target? You have a good chance of having drawn them already by this point, and if you've already hit an entomb effect you've already grabbed your best target. So, diminishing returns, whereas the Miser has increasing returns.
Besides, i just want to live the dream of Bone Miser!
However, Lamia is held back by restricting her graveyard ability to a one-time deal that has diminishing returns. Tutoring a card to the graveyard is much narrower than gaining free extra value every time you discard. How many cards are you going to have that you actually want to stick in your GY? Genesis? Hogaak? A reanimation target? You have a good chance of having drawn them already by this point, and if you've already hit an entomb effect you've already grabbed your best target. So, diminishing returns, whereas the Miser has increasing returns.
Besides, i just want to live the dream of Bone Miser!
In a proper GY deck, a good fraction of the deck will be targets for sending to the grave, whether it's flashback spells, reanimation targets, reanimation spells themselves, powerful self-recursive creatures, possibly a target for spell recursion or just fuel for other cool cards. And a card like Genesis is an awesome tutor! That's unlocking a regrowth effect available turn after turn. That's a solid play.
Her second ability also gains value over time as there are more spells available to cast from the grave, so that largely offsets the diminishing number of library targets as the game goes on.
Here's a sample deck from my previous cube that has 7 directly important cards to put in the grave, and Sidisi + Gisa&Geralf extend that to "any creature card", and Crucible + Gitrog adds "also land cards", and noxious revival + seasons past add "actually any card in a pinch". Conversely, there are only three cards in the deck that allow you to discard, and they are liable to be used before T5.
Maybe in a vacuum the Miser has a higher ceiling, but in a GY-themed cube I think the Lamia does a better job actually meshing with the decks in the environment, therefore making it better. Miser tends to poorly align with the decks that are actually discarding a lot of cards in cube, which usually comes down to some sort of RB madness type of deck and the UR spells deck. Both are typically fast decks, having most of their gameplan in place before T5 even hits, and therefor few cards left in hand with which to actually gain value off the miser. If you have a cycling theme or a cube without any real focus on the GY I can see Miser's stock going up.
Her second ability also gains value over time as there are more spells available to cast from the grave, so that largely offsets the diminishing number of library targets as the game goes on.
Here's a sample deck from my previous cube that has 7 directly important cards to put in the grave, and Sidisi + Gisa&Geralf extend that to "any creature card", and Crucible + Gitrog adds "also land cards", and noxious revival + seasons past add "actually any card in a pinch". Conversely, there are only three cards in the deck that allow you to discard, and they are liable to be used before T5.
Maybe in a vacuum the Miser has a higher ceiling, but in a GY-themed cube I think the Lamia does a better job actually meshing with the decks in the environment, therefore making it better. Miser tends to poorly align with the decks that are actually discarding a lot of cards in cube, which usually comes down to some sort of RB madness type of deck and the UR spells deck. Both are typically fast decks, having most of their gameplan in place before T5 even hits, and therefor few cards left in hand with which to actually gain value off the miser. If you have a cycling theme or a cube without any real focus on the GY I can see Miser's stock going up.
The Miser is a real build around. It specifically needs as deck with lots of discard outlets, similar to drake haven. A few of those cards make a cube more interesting, but beware to add too many as they're really narrow. The Lamia works with all kinds of abilities, like literally all kinds of recursion (Haunted Crossroads turns it into worldly tutor for example). If I had any lifegain or life pay synergies, I would also play it just for the huge lifelink body.
So, I'd like 96% of my cube cards to be more like the Lamia, but a few bone misers here and there are a good thing.
So, I'd like 96% of my cube cards to be more like the Lamia, but a few bone misers here and there are a good thing.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think Archfiend of Ifnir is a much better build-around for discard matters decks. The floor is much, much higher, and it happens to also self-discard for reanimator decks. Bonus!
I assume you mean "the floor is much, much higher"?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
VS Which is the better spell land that someone could splash for? I think Desolate Lighthouse?
If splashablity is a desired trait, the lighthouse is more splashable than the Frostpyre, at least into blue. What decks are you hoping to see use these or splash for these? Both have decent effects, but they are quite different in nature from each other. The frostpyre, for instance, is not going to synergize with the young pyromancers of the world at all.
I guess I meant it in terms of "raw power" or something to that effect. Looting cards seems more generally useful to me than a pyroclasm?
I guess I'll return to making this decision once I have more the cube design settled
I'm quite thrilled about getting another cycle of "spell lands", since the one from Innistrad had pretty varying power levels among the color pairs. I for instance much prefer skemfar elderhall and littjara mirrorlake to the Innistrad GB and UG lands.