enchantments that do a thing and then sacrifice themselves at end step are so cool
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
But it could be? There is no reason it couldn't. Works perfectly fine ruleswise. And there are many that come close to being just one time effects.
Yes it could if Wizards made a design error. But they haven’t made one without an ability. Why would anyone cast a spell that doesn’t do anything?
The Eidolon is a creature.
Dress Down has an ability.
Delusions has an ability.
Underworld has an ability.
What we need to find is an enchantment with strictly only the following card text:
“When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, draw a card.”
The reason why we cannot find a card like that is because it is pointless. Enchantments have static or triggered abilities. What ability does Nyxborn Courser have? Nothing. It’s just a 2/4 creature for 3 that they attached the enchantment card type onto because they wanted enchantments to be a thing in their format. It’s like a terrible custom card
And just for good measure, here are some super examples of how to do enchantment creatures:
Just to show a few. Notice how they are enchantments but also creatures? They have enchantment abilities but can also attack and block.
There are even other options to explore. Like bestow for instance
Even these make kind of sense
Anything but the dog design, please
Now imagine a critical situation where a player randomly discovers his Boseiju, Who Endures can shoot a Spirited Companion for a final all in attack which decides the game. This is in 4 years when people have forgotten Neon Dynasty limited and the reason why the super normal dog was an enchantment.
"This design does not currently exist" is wholly irrelevant when you're talking about whether or not a design can exist, is the thing. I agree that that enchantment existing is pretty unlikely, though.
I think the issue with making enchantment creatures "feel like enchantments" is that, now that we have colored non-creature artifacts as a semi-regular thing, enchantments no longer have their own niche. "Artifact" and "Enchantment" are basically just flavor tags at this point (with the flavor being "they're vaguely some kind of thing? I dunno.").
most of the enchantment creatures are associated with Old Kamigawa or are closely tied to the spirit realm in some way. except moon circuit hacker idk what her deal is
I also think it's fallacious to assume that one card = one living being otherwise planes walking would cause you to shit yourself uncontrollably due to leaving your gut flora behind. That's not to say that cards don't normally work that way, but rather that it doesn't always have to be this way (ex. Abzan Falconer clearly comes with at least one bird despite not explicitly being called "Abzan Falconer And At Least One Falcon"). The way I see it, the card represents the dog and the attending spirits. Yes, the name doesn't really work with that interpretation, but it's a cute pun so w/e.
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You know, it amuses me greatly that Darksteel Relic is still a useful card purely on the strength of costing 0 mana. Like, it's not a strong card, but it can be useful... just ask Ensoul Artifact or Phylactery Lich.
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I mean, that is the real reason why Planeswalkers immediately leave the battlefield upon running out of "loyalty".
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I mean, that is the real reason why Planeswalkers immediately leave the battlefield upon running out of "loyalty".
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Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Uhm. This is its ability. A 2/4 creature has impact on the battlefield. It's basically an Opal Acrolith that you don't need to turn on.
One card = hundreds of living beings at least
Except when they’re legendary. This is what legendary means in Magic. Unique, one of a kind. When a card is not legendary they don’t assume gender because many different genders exist for each card.
Acrolith has the ability to become a creature and become an enchantment. It can switch between card types as to dodge spot removal and sweepers.
Except when they’re legendary. This is what legendary means in Magic. Unique, one of a kind. When a card is not legendary they don’t assume gender because many different genders exist for each card.
Acrolith has the ability to become a creature and become an enchantment. It can switch between card types as to dodge spot removal and sweepers.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I know, but you're focusing on the wrong thing here. Being a creature is an ability in an of itself is what I meant, because you get to affect the battlefield directly.
All of these artifact cards don't have an ability either (other than being a creature), and there is no mechanical reason these should be artifacts. Or at least, there is no mechanical reason that does not also hold for cards like Nyxborn Courser. If artifact creatures can exist, then why not enchantment creatures, if the set mechanics ask for it? There is nothing wrong, mechanically, with enchantment creatures, it's just that the enchantment creatures in NEO are a bit questionable from a flavor perspective. They're mostly regular creatures that invoke or work with the spirit realm, or received a kami's blessing, but it's unclear why that makes the creatures themselves enchantments, especially because most of the spirits in NEO aren't enchantments. It just feels a bit random. Doesn't mean they're mechanical mistakes though, or that enchantment creatures need to have a static ability to count as enchantments.
I share your opinion Velrun!
Just that they can create enchantment creatures does not mean that is an elegant solution.
Artifact creatures were colorless and mechanical. If a colour is added then the colour should preferably be represented on the card by an ability (or flavour like being on mirroring) or something like that. This is also true for the enchantment creatures.
There was also a difference between artifacts and enchantments, one is mechanical and the other magical. Sadly, this was never thoroughly followed since many abilities were on both types.
Dress down and underworld breach should not be enchantments. If you want self sacrifice enchantments then pick one of these cycles
I don't see the functional difference between Second Chance and Breach. Both have a condition that causes their self sacrifice. Just different conditions. And seal should definitely be an artifact if we are following the strict "everything has to follow a consistent pattern despite potential gameplay improvements" approach. That art even shows a physical object (a magical artifact if you will) being broken in half to remove the monster.
Artifacts and enchantments also used to be mechanically different. Artifacts were colorless (until Alara) and thus the go to version for colorless creatures too. Enchantments were colored and couldn't tap (Until Future Sight).
One general problem with enchantments, that we don't have with artifacts, is, that the flavor isn't really clear. Artifacts are mechanical constructs of come kind. Enchantments are basically everything else they wanted to do as a permanent, non-creature effect. Auras usually really feel like enchantments as they, well, enchant things. Half of the non-auras at least, however, don't really match the term perfectly. And it has been like this forever.
One general problem with enchantments, that we don't have with artifacts, is, that the flavor isn't really clear. Artifacts are mechanical constructs of come kind. Enchantments are basically everything else they wanted to do as a permanent, non-creature effect. Auras usually really feel like enchantments as they, well, enchant things. Half of the non-auras at least, however, don't really match the term perfectly. And it has been like this forever.
Only tangentially related, but TIL about escape:
That makes escaping stuff like Cathartic Reunion a bit more punchy (it's basically 1R, escape 1 -> draw the best card out of the top three from your library).
That makes escaping stuff like Cathartic Reunion a bit more punchy (it's basically 1R, escape 1 -> draw the best card out of the top three from your library).
and a perfect example of flavor-driven enchantment creature. It's a projection of light through magical stained glass. That's pretty enchantment-yJust to make everything more complicated, remember that this was the first-ever enchantment creature:
Besides having that whole ethereal glow sparkly thing going on.
Second chance is conditional breach not. There is almost no difference to the wording of
and breach. One works until the end of turn the other also since you have to sacrifice it. Breach is just a sorcery made enchantment without a real good reason. Second chance cannot be made a sorcery without losing the rattlesnake and the mana investment on another turn. You are right that seal should be an artifact (see how hard it is?), so let me instead propose ? Until end of turn you may escape nonland cards from your graveyard where the escape cost is equal to their mana cost and three cards.
it’s cooler as an enchantment though
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Underworld Breach being an enchantment has a couple of advantages:
1) It makes the rules text easier to parse. Yes your rules text works, I think, Rusje, but it's not as clean as the wording on the enchantment.
2) It stays on the battlefield, making it clear to see for everyone that the effect is still active.
3) It can be interacted with mid-sequence to break up a combo turn unexpectedly.
4) It enables more answers, because suddenly not only discard, counterspells, and graveyard removal work against it (like with Yawgmoth's Will), but enchantment removal works as well.
I honestly prefer it as an enchantment, despite the admittedly weird 'sac at end of turn' clause.
The cornercase where the opponent has a dischenchant is fun but often negligible. The breach player gets priority first so most of the damage is done already. There are also answers against sorceries…
I am on the fence wether the memory load of it staying on the battlefield with an end of turn trigger is less or more memory load than a sorcery. Actually, I am not on the fence the memory load would be less if it were a sorcery. As an enchantment you have an ability and then you find out that it holds until the end of turn. It would be easier to parse if the end condition is immediately clear.
No, putting the sacrifice at the end as the first ability would not help since then your brain is wired by what the fuck is going on.
Any sorcery/instant can be made into an enchantment the question is what do you gain? Giant growth is probably also not clearer as a enchantment.
Sorry for my mumbling but what happens when I parse breach is:
I have an enchantment which costs something.
It is a permanent so it stays in the battlefield and does something.
I have to sac it at the end of the turn.
wait wut? So I have to trackback and the ability is only for one turn.
If it is a sorcery with my wording it is immediately clear, no trackbacking.
my wording for escape is similarly and the timing for how long is clear at the start. No confusion by first promising a permanent and then voiding that promise.
I love Underworld Breach as an enchantment. The possible disruption mid-combo has been super relevant for us. I also like that it works with permanent recursion.
But anyway, the flavor on Breach as a permanent that disappears at end of turn is so good. It's a literal underworld breach that sits around spewing out escaped stuff until it closes.
But anyway, the flavor on Breach as a permanent that disappears at end of turn is so good. It's a literal underworld breach that sits around spewing out escaped stuff until it closes.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
This isn't a corner case at all in constructed formats. Cube isn't the only format.
I disagree. Most decks playing Underworld Breach (at least in constructed) don't play the card as a fancy Recoup, they want to aggressively fill the yard and go off. E.g. this commander combo gets wrecked when you destroy the Breach in response to cracking the Lion's Eye Diamond. Modern's Grinding Breach deck, likewise, wants to dump its entire deck into its graveyard, which it can't do if you destroy the Breach after the first cast.
I mean, fair if you experience it that way. Not every mind works the same way. The first time I read the card I went: "Oh, I can cast cards from my graveyard with no additional mana cost? That sounds broken!", then continued: "Ah, but only for a turn. Check, I thought it was a bit ridiculous."
I'm totally on the same page as dbs regarding flavor. A door to hell opens for a day, spews out all these underworldly horrors, and then collapses.
Also, many, many, many permanents sacrifice themselves either at end of turn or via some other mechanism (including almost every saga). This is not even that rare a feature amongst non-saga enchantments:
I could keep going. Obviously not all "at end step". But enchantments that aren't permanent permanent are very common in MTG.
I think the majority of MTG players are already familiar with this common mechanic of enchantments, and the Breach saccing is nothing unusual at all.
Also, many, many, many permanents sacrifice themselves either at end of turn or via some other mechanism (including almost every saga). This is not even that rare a feature amongst non-saga enchantments:
I could keep going. Obviously not all "at end step". But enchantments that aren't permanent permanent are very common in MTG.
I think the majority of MTG players are already familiar with this common mechanic of enchantments, and the Breach saccing is nothing unusual at all.
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