General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Guys, you notice one of them is 2 mana...
VS
The cube has some very minor aura support, ie Rancor, etc... and has a small lifegain thing going on as well.
No takers?
And the 2-mana squall seems fine. Although white borders are ugh.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Fiendslayer Paladin. Skulk is okay as kinda a Beloved Chaplain expy, but I perfer the creature that beats down decently before you enchant it
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I quite like Fiendslayer's newfangled protection as well. I wish they'ld keyworded that as the new protection-like ability and phased out protection entirely.
My secret hope is that they'll one day change what the keyword 'protection' means entirely, and maybe limit it to just the hexproof-from-colours part. I don't think that can ever happen, though, otherwise they probably would've fixed regeneration by now.
lol of course I somehow miss that but catch the typo in the Alfred Lord Tennis-anyone quote.
Depends on your enviroment and cube.
Singleplayercube with a lot of Aggropotential Far//Away > Silumgar'S Command
Otherwise with just an inch Silumgar's Command.
The command is versatile but often not played (even in our MP-enviroment).
If I have to make a decision I would pick Far // Away, because it let you draft also different colours. You can play Far // away as seperate effects. If you have so much mana left, players will notice, that you want to counter/react/disrupt a play.
Far //Away > Silumgar's Command, although I didn't test Far // Away so far. The Command was often a bit underwhelming.
Singleplayercube with a lot of Aggropotential Far//Away > Silumgar'S Command
Otherwise with just an inch Silumgar's Command.
The command is versatile but often not played (even in our MP-enviroment).
If I have to make a decision I would pick Far // Away, because it let you draft also different colours. You can play Far // away as seperate effects. If you have so much mana left, players will notice, that you want to counter/react/disrupt a play.
Far //Away > Silumgar's Command, although I didn't test Far // Away so far. The Command was often a bit underwhelming.
I'm not sure I see much of a reason to run either, personally. Blue has more fun and/or efficient bounce; black has more fun and/or efficient kill spells. I get there is a 2-for-1 potential, and the "flexibility" is cool, but I can't ever imagine being very pleased to pick up either unless I was desperate for removal. Unless the intention behind including it is "I want some weak removal to hang at the end of a pack for control dudes to pick up easily late", I don't really see what the justification for it is. Mono-black and mono-blue both do a great job removing things, and a card that is hybrid/multicolour doesn't really seem necessary to anchor "blue/black control" as a viable deck. People will draft U/B control regardless. imho multicolour slots should be filled by exciting picks, or picks that knit together two-colour archetypes. I understand people still using Lightning Helix even if I don't agree with it much because it's a really powerful card, but Far // Away and Silumgar's Command don't even have that going for em.
Far//Away for me, easy. -3/-3 is pretty weak for a 5-cmc removal spell, and killing a walker is also of suspect relevance. Lost in the Mist ain't great, so I can't imagine negate-only is better.
It's not actually a 2 for 1. The bounce is disadvantage technically. Together though, they function better than your typical edict especially later in the game.
The flexibility aspect IMO is being glossed. Take a more powerful example. Cryptic Command. How many times is that just a harder to cast Dismiss? In our meta at least, most of the time (75% maybe more)? Show of hands.. how many run Dismiss? Another show of hands... how many people are thinking of cutting Cryptic Command for not being good enough?
It's all about the additional value of the other modes even if they aren't used as often. Having the option is what matters. Sometimes, tapping your opponents army wins you the game. Sometimes bouncing something is what you need. For all other times, there's dismiss for an extra U - not a good deal in a vacuum, but the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
Far//Away is similar in that it gives you two different modes early and both later in the game. And unlike some other split cards, the two modes work exceptionally well together.
Cube is such a high powered environment, I find you do not have a lot of time to react to things. And that is where super flexible cards end up doing so much work. Even if on paper they look lackluster.
The flexibility aspect IMO is being glossed. Take a more powerful example. Cryptic Command. How many times is that just a harder to cast Dismiss? In our meta at least, most of the time (75% maybe more)? Show of hands.. how many run Dismiss? Another show of hands... how many people are thinking of cutting Cryptic Command for not being good enough?
It's all about the additional value of the other modes even if they aren't used as often. Having the option is what matters. Sometimes, tapping your opponents army wins you the game. Sometimes bouncing something is what you need. For all other times, there's dismiss for an extra U - not a good deal in a vacuum, but the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
Far//Away is similar in that it gives you two different modes early and both later in the game. And unlike some other split cards, the two modes work exceptionally well together.
Cube is such a high powered environment, I find you do not have a lot of time to react to things. And that is where super flexible cards end up doing so much work. Even if on paper they look lackluster.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I think thats a question of mana efficiency. If 5 mana instants aren't efficent enough in your environment, I would go far // away, otherwise command. Being able to nuke planeswalkers and hit any permanent is a nice interaction gap filler for a lot of cubes.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Galvanic Arc has always been a decent removal spell in limited, you can always play it on the creature you are going to kill if you're afraid of the blowout. First strike is a relevant ability as well. Ordeal of Purphoros plays nice with +1/+1 counters already there, potentially triggering the 3 damage immediately. It's also a nice removal spell. I would cube both over Seal of Fire.
Molten Vortex seems like it rewards lower mana curves much more than Flame Jab. I guess it depends on how vital it is to be able to kill Delver of Secrets on turn 1
Molten Vortex seems like it rewards lower mana curves much more than Flame Jab. I guess it depends on how vital it is to be able to kill Delver of Secrets on turn 1
Is there a pericular incentive/payoff for the enchantments in RW? Off the top of my head I can think of...Ethereal Armor but not much else, so it's hard to evaluate which one's best. Of course, there's Starfield of Nyx which is cute with seals, but you said aggro control, so I guess that's not the direction you're going. Do you want your enchantments to stick around? Do you have any incidental +1/+1 counter synergy? Is a lot of your removal instant speed? That trick of casting Galvanic Arc on an opponent's creature that Onderzeeboot mentioned is pretty neat. If you don't need to keep your enchantments on the board, that makes arc seem like the most straight forward inclusion.
Burning Vengeance, prowess, and sorcery casting triggers would make flame jab appealing, but in the absence of those (most of the time?) Molten Vortex is going to be much more usable. I'm assuming you have life from the loam. If not, both look unappealing. I actually haven't played with Molten Vortex, but from what others have said on this forum, it seems difficult to really utilize. Flame jab was super slow even in a constructed loam deck I played in modern long ago (where was my seismic assault?!?!)
Burning Vengeance, prowess, and sorcery casting triggers would make flame jab appealing, but in the absence of those (most of the time?) Molten Vortex is going to be much more usable. I'm assuming you have life from the loam. If not, both look unappealing. I actually haven't played with Molten Vortex, but from what others have said on this forum, it seems difficult to really utilize. Flame jab was super slow even in a constructed loam deck I played in modern long ago (where was my seismic assault?!?!)
Sprawl vs Fertile is a format speed question first and foremost imo. The 1 colour vs any colour factor matters but I personally don't consider Fertile better or worse for being more friendly to 5c-goodstuff. I run Sprawl and love it, but I'm running Fertile as soon as I find room. They both go up in value with untappers. No untappers? Then it's a format speed question.
As for Kudzu vs Dryad, Dryad and it isn't even close. As I've said in other threads, Dryad is phenomenal over here, but I imagine she's very curve-dependent. That isn't a bad thing to me! It isn't uncommon to see her become a 4/4+ in a hurry, and to me, a 2-drop that can grow huge based on deck construction is pretty much exactly where I want to be. She also bolsters any +1/+1 counter theme you've got going on. Run her, she's awesome!
As for Kudzu vs Dryad, Dryad and it isn't even close. As I've said in other threads, Dryad is phenomenal over here, but I imagine she's very curve-dependent. That isn't a bad thing to me! It isn't uncommon to see her become a 4/4+ in a hurry, and to me, a 2-drop that can grow huge based on deck construction is pretty much exactly where I want to be. She also bolsters any +1/+1 counter theme you've got going on. Run her, she's awesome!
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I think for flame jab or molten vortex you would be looking for a deck that can generate a lot of prison-like inevitability: sort of like lands in legacy or tortured existence/jund loam in pauper. If you are going that deep, I think I like molten vortex better, though flame jab is a nice support card, and you should probably be running both. However, I would think you would want to be running those alongside tilling treefolk and cartographer.
Really nice synergy with the bouncelands and land searcher dorks though.
I much more like Ordeal of purphoros because it works well with white's heroic creatures, the outlast lords in white and green, and the "power matters" creatures in red and green. However, galvanic arc functions better as an actual removal spell.
It really depends on what you have in mind for how the deck functions.
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Dryad > Kudzu. I will echo that its not even close.
I just went from x2 fertile ground to a 1:1 split between fertile ground and utopia sprawl, mostly because I hate breaking singleton if I can avoid it. I think fertile Ground is the better card, but we shall see: they are both very similar.
Really nice synergy with the bouncelands and land searcher dorks though.
I much more like Ordeal of purphoros because it works well with white's heroic creatures, the outlast lords in white and green, and the "power matters" creatures in red and green. However, galvanic arc functions better as an actual removal spell.
It really depends on what you have in mind for how the deck functions.
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Dryad > Kudzu. I will echo that its not even close.
I just went from x2 fertile ground to a 1:1 split between fertile ground and utopia sprawl, mostly because I hate breaking singleton if I can avoid it. I think fertile Ground is the better card, but we shall see: they are both very similar.
Flame Jab is sweet in self-mill and Prowess decks, and super super easy to set up. A great discard for value card. Vortex you need to draw and have the hand for, so it's less useful.
I actually like Seal of Fire, Quirion Dryad and Sprawl more than their competitors. Dryad doesn't suck to topdeck like Kudzu does, Sprawl curves out nicer on turn one OR two with a tapland, and the Seal is just super, super versatile, which I like when I'm trying to impose themes Wizards doesn't.
(PROWESS / FLAME JAB 2016)
I actually like Seal of Fire, Quirion Dryad and Sprawl more than their competitors. Dryad doesn't suck to topdeck like Kudzu does, Sprawl curves out nicer on turn one OR two with a tapland, and the Seal is just super, super versatile, which I like when I'm trying to impose themes Wizards doesn't.
(PROWESS / FLAME JAB 2016)
Sign me up for Camp Sprawl, too. Ramping at 1 cmc is a big difference from ramping at 2 cmc - think Birds of Paradise versus Utopia Tree - and needing to choose a colour on the spot isn't as inflexible as it sounds, because you'll pick the one you're most lacking based on the contents of your hand, so you're usually not left wanting. I've actually been running two Utopia Sprawls for some time now, and though it's a little confusing to newer players - needing to find a forest to strap it to, and realizing they need to make a decision on resolution - I think its upsides are worth its complexity cost.
Fertile Ground is certainly a playable card, but unless you're running a heavy enchantress theme or have a lot of untap synergies, there are a whole host of other good options in green at two.
Fertile Ground is certainly a playable card, but unless you're running a heavy enchantress theme or have a lot of untap synergies, there are a whole host of other good options in green at two.