Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Well sure, if that context doesn't exist, than the conditions to run the card don't exist, and it shouldn't be run; I was focused more on the context of where it would make sense to consider running it.
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Well sure, if that context doesn't exist, than the conditions to run the card don't exist, and it shouldn't be run; I was focused more on the context of where it would make sense to consider running it.
I don't know whether power level makes a difference on whether top deck wars come into play. Even in Vintage constructed, probably the most powerful format, games can come down to top deck wars. It's more the style of decks - if you have two decks that are looking to trade off resources, a top deck war is going to be likely.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oh oh oh! After our discussion, I was wondering why I cut Looter il-Kor. Well, duh...
This card is suh-weet!
I LOVE the concept of that card, but I have a lot of small blockers in my cube, so I thought this card would be crap in it.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Fair enough.
vs. I want to add one of them. TExistence is very strong in pauper, and I think it will be a very good card in Bx reanimator shells, maybe too good?
If not, then I find it to be more interesting than Reclamation, which is a fine kind itself and I would never have a problem adding it to my cube, but you get my point.
I like TE more. I have a madness/graveyard theme in my cube, so it just makes more sense for me, but in your cube you also have great stuff like Scourge of Nel Toth, Advanced Stitchwing, Centaur Vinecrasher, etc. Anyone who gets to pull off that synergy would feel very satisfied. I don't think it's too strong.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
One has to go from my cube, which two do you think are the best ones?
I think Evacuation is the worst because it always resets your board. Cyclonic Rift is good early, and insane late. Baral's Expertise allows you to surgically remove your opponent's best creatures and/or bounce and replay one of your own cheap etb effects (Sea Gate Oracle for example).
I'd remove Evacuation too, since Cyclonic Rift seems to differ more from the other two and Baral's Expertise looks better and funnier than Evacuation.
Also: Whelming Wave > Evacuation.
Also: Whelming Wave > Evacuation.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I have to disagree here. Wave might often be better, but Evac is an instant, and that is very relevant in a blue deck.
Hah, I didn't notice Evacuation is an instant. Totally my bad.
Once I lost a prerelease match because I tried to play Armed/Dangerous as an instant. Will never forget that one. I should do something with my use of not reading card types, it seems dangerous.
Once I lost a prerelease match because I tried to play Armed/Dangerous as an instant. Will never forget that one. I should do something with my use of not reading card types, it seems dangerous.
One has to go from my cube, which two do you think are the best ones?
I like Baral's Expertise. I think it's got the most play to it, even if it's the most powerful. However, it really depends on your cube environment. It's worth noting that Baral's Expertise and Evacuation do NOT always belong in the same deck. A creature-heavy tempo deck would love Baral's Expertise, but snub Evacuation for the reason that Onderzeeboot described.
Baral's Expertise may be played in very different decks as it's such a strong card. I would cut that one for power level reasons.
Evacuation is boring, but a classic, somehow. I still find it to be quite strong, if your opponent managed to build quite the army it's a pseudo mass removal on instant speed, which doesn't sound bad to me at all. Really depens on how your blue section is built, with a lot of etb I'd allow it to stay.
Cyclonic Rift is my personal favourite of the three and the only one I have in cube myself. For two, it's a fairly costed spot bounce, good for tempo decks, and for seven it's a one-sided bounce-everything-except-lands, something especially control decks want to have to finally turn the tide. It's in a comparable spot to Baral's, but it's a tad weaker as seven mana is not reached so fast, even for control decks, so it's definitely not as strong as Expertise.
I'd vote against Baral's Expertise.
Evacuation is boring, but a classic, somehow. I still find it to be quite strong, if your opponent managed to build quite the army it's a pseudo mass removal on instant speed, which doesn't sound bad to me at all. Really depens on how your blue section is built, with a lot of etb I'd allow it to stay.
Cyclonic Rift is my personal favourite of the three and the only one I have in cube myself. For two, it's a fairly costed spot bounce, good for tempo decks, and for seven it's a one-sided bounce-everything-except-lands, something especially control decks want to have to finally turn the tide. It's in a comparable spot to Baral's, but it's a tad weaker as seven mana is not reached so fast, even for control decks, so it's definitely not as strong as Expertise.
I'd vote against Baral's Expertise.
I would keep the Expertise and I guess Evacuation over Cyclonic Rift. I don't really like either Evacuation or Rift in Cube, but I suppose Evacuation is more playable being 5 mana. I jam Rift in any blue EDH decks I end up making because it's the most one-sided wipe available, but reaching 7 mana is far from guaranteed in most matches of Cube that I've played. You might not get that 7th mana source until T8 or T9 which I don't really end up seeing unless I'm in a grindfest. If you're playing against a more aggressively slanted deck, you can just forget about it. I'm not a fan of a base case of Disperse which I don't feel is all that cube worthy at a higher power level.
I personally feel that Expertise is quite tame at a higher powered setting. You don't have the consistency of 4-ofs within your deck to ensure a great 4 mana free play and often times you might just end up plopping some middling to decent 3 mana card into play. Having to have the additional card to extract maximum value isn't completely negligible, you won't always have that option ready to go in your hand on curve (unless you sandbag I suppose). Also it has the best art so it has to stay.
I personally feel that Expertise is quite tame at a higher powered setting. You don't have the consistency of 4-ofs within your deck to ensure a great 4 mana free play and often times you might just end up plopping some middling to decent 3 mana card into play. Having to have the additional card to extract maximum value isn't completely negligible, you won't always have that option ready to go in your hand on curve (unless you sandbag I suppose). Also it has the best art so it has to stay.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
If you really are running a cube at a higher power level, may I suggest this one over all three?
Edit: Also, I disagree with Shamizy for once.
The base case of Dispersal is actually super relevant because it's attached to a killer late game effect. If you are facing a super aggressive deck, Evacuation won't save you. It will reset the whole board, and your opponent will likely rebuild faster than you can. Rift can get you to the mid- or late game, where your deck ideally will start playing stronger spells than your opponent. It's a good card for delaying your opponent's aggressive starts. Also, though you couldn't have known, in a powered unpowered cube I expect mana rocks like Coalition Relic and Worn Powerstone, which make seven mana a lot easier to attain.
Edit: Also, I disagree with Shamizy for once.
The base case of Dispersal is actually super relevant because it's attached to a killer late game effect. If you are facing a super aggressive deck, Evacuation won't save you. It will reset the whole board, and your opponent will likely rebuild faster than you can. Rift can get you to the mid- or late game, where your deck ideally will start playing stronger spells than your opponent. It's a good card for delaying your opponent's aggressive starts. Also, though you couldn't have known, in a powered unpowered cube I expect mana rocks like Coalition Relic and Worn Powerstone, which make seven mana a lot easier to attain.
I'm going to have to disagree on Mystic Confluence here. Card is pretty busted in the MTGO Legacy Cube; you'd need something approaching Vintage Cube power levels for it to be reasonable. Every single mode is exceptionally powerful and there are so many modes. It's like a swiss army knife where nearly every single thing you can fold out is far too powerful to fit in the knife.
I am already running it. It's a favourite that is a loong way from being axedIf you really are running a cube at a higher power level, may I suggest this one over all three?
I should have been more clear in my previous post. I am looking for space to add Baral's expertise and it would replace either Evacuation or Cyclonic Rift.
Decided to cut Evacuation since they seem the most similar. Though I will miss evac for sure... I really hate making cuts
Good points, it can definitely put in work in certain environments. Just hasn't been the case for me personally since I've pushed aggressive and controlling strategies with (mostly) a lack of fast mana available. In such an environment, Rift just isn't as appealing when you really want to be turning the corner and taking over a game around T5-ish. It can definitely be a beating in more midrange-y cubes, I'll give you that.
Personally, I'm only willing to play Expertise from those 3 mentioned because the other two don't quite get there for me. I mean, I still have Into The Roil in my cube an that card is pretty underwhelming filler unless you can shoot it with kicker in most cases.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I also have Into the Roil, but then again, I do need cards that can reset Demonic Pact
I don't disagree with your evaluation, it proved to be waaaaaaaay too good for my own cube, but if your playgroup gets a kick out of playing overpowered cards, it's definitely a good add. Turns out it's already in their cube though
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I still love Into the Roil: it's a clean and effective example of a nuts-and-bolts card blue needs to have. It's fine in any blue deck and you need a certain number of cards like that.
Rift is amazing at creating memorable games: it's often one of the few cards in Magic (or the only card in a Cube) that can get you out of a situation and it causes some drastic swings without being oppressive.
It takes one time passing the turn with Mystic Confluence up to realize that it's completely busted.
Rift is amazing at creating memorable games: it's often one of the few cards in Magic (or the only card in a Cube) that can get you out of a situation and it causes some drastic swings without being oppressive.
It takes one time passing the turn with Mystic Confluence up to realize that it's completely busted.
Mogis, God of Slaughter provides a fair-feeling Sulfuric Vortex-like reach that aggro appreciates, whereas Spike Jester is wildly unpickable unless you're in a heavy-multicolor or low-powered environ. I really can't imagine a cube where both would possibly be reasonable includes, so I'd base the decision off of which suits your power level better.