FlowerSunRain's Cube

[FlowerSunRain]

Current version done, but I foresee some changes happening.

Pretty sure custom Kris Mage's time has passed.

I can probably also afford to drop a couple of the squadded cards that aren't really vital to any decks. I'm thinking Stromkirk Noble, Mortician Beetle, Grim Guardian, Custom Flying Men and Young Pyromancer are all perfectly fine singly. I'm not sure I have enough top manipulation to run delver proftiably and if I did I'd have to run at as a squad for consistency. Blue one drops are still a complete bitch.

I'm wondering if I want another blue win-con in here, either a big dude (Aetherling, Deep Sea Kraken or something in between) or a mill card (increasing confusion, Ambassador L). Blue has Jarjar, Meloku, Simic Sky Swallower and decent wincons in the land draft. Maybe Keranos is what I want here too, I'm not sure?

 

[safra]

Blue one drops are still a complete bitch.

I'm wondering if I want another blue win-con in here, either a big dude (Aetherling, Deep Sea Kraken or something in between) or a mill card (increasing confusion, Ambassador L). Blue has Jarjar, Meloku, Simic Sky Swallower and decent wincons in the land draft. Maybe Keranos is what I want here too, I'm not sure?

yo run more counterspells at 1 instead

Aetherling has been a big hit here, it's a finisher with its own play style and feels incredibly blue imo

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Good ideas.

Any good "incidental mill engines" out there? Jace Beleren, Mesmeric Orb, Dakra Mystic are all decent. Anything else that speeds up card drawing/milling for the opponent that isn't completely poisonous or terrible? I'm skeptical that my cube can effectively run howling mine, does the instant status of Dictate of Kruphix make it better enough to not be bad. Am I completely wrong Howling Mine actually legit? Would delve/recur decks actually run a maindeck ghoulcaller's bell? Does Anvil of Bogardan have hidden play?

I know the correct answer here is "cut Hedron Crab, it fucking sucks and if you do you can get rid of like 5 other marginal cards", but I'm stubborn.

 

[safra]

Good ideas.

Any good "incidental mill engines" out there? Jace Beleren, Mesmeric Orb, Dakra Mystic are all decent. Anything else that speeds up card drawing/milling for the opponent that isn't completely poisonous or terrible? I'm skeptical that my cube can effectively run howling mine, does the instant status of Dictate of Kruphix make it better enough to not be bad. Am I completely wrong Howling Mine actually legit? Would delve/recur decks actually run a maindeck ghoulcaller's bell? Does Anvil of Bogardan have hidden play?

I know the correct answer here is "cut Hedron Crab, it fucking sucks and if you do you can get rid of like 5 other marginal cards", but I'm stubborn.

I think Dictate is okay, but I don't know that Mine is quite made for your environment, though some of your aggro decks might want it. I'm equally as stubborn so let's not worry about cuts just yet! Codex Shredder over Bell might just make the difference in playability. Now that I've cast it a few times in draft I'm cautiously optimistic about Talent of the Telepath, which puts the cards in their graveyard and not back under their library.

The idea behind the howling mine tech is that exhausting your opponent's deck works whether they're drawing the cards or milling them, and the cards you draw give you more options (and ways to exhaust their deck). Mesmeric Orb is probably the fastest of those effects, Mine is the strongest, and I never actually tried Dakra Mystic (if you do let me know how she is!). I actually had the most fun of my plan B options with Kami of the Crescent Moon, who acts as a blocker and draw engine. Anvil of Bogardan is sweet and easier to break the symmetry on if you're just looking for card advantage, but it's less fun to play with than Howling Mine.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Kami of the Crescent Moon is begging for flash. I can't imagine how often casting it on 2 would end in a blowout. That said, flash on it would be pretty insane. Even going 0/3 Flash seems strong.

While looking through my binder for a ghoulcaller's bell, I saw Horn of Greed. It seems to check all of the boxes I'm looking for, assuming that green ramp decks actually would play it. Seems worth giving a shot. Unlike mine you can get the card first and you can break the symmetry. Codex Shredder over Bell is tough, you lose being able to mill while building up graveyard for Cruise/Dig/giant zombie-fish blocker/Think Twice/whatever, but you can get back a removal/draw/sweeper that you need instead.

Altar of the Brood exists, but seems really terrible.

Sphinx's tutelage seems actually legit. I know its narrow, but it chunks away at their deck consistently, resolving a brainstorm with it out lowers the land count to kill with Hedron crab by 2.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I redid my cube.

Its actually three different cubes now. Two of them have 360 cards, the other has 720 cards. One 360 list is has all the gimicky stuff (enchantress, heroic, mill, devtion, etc.), the other is everything else. The "true cube experience" for this list would be some kind of 16 player megadraft using the 720 list. I usually play with 4 players, so the smaller lists will be appreciated. I occasionally play with a lot of player (10+) so the big list is a necessity. The smaller lists haven't been tested at all and could be awful, but I'm digging the idea. Its less ambitious then the polycube or the modular cube, but it serves a similar purpose.

There are no more multipicks (replaced with the usual multiples), the two lists aren't separated yet, and the new customs haven't been marked yet.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Ok, so my cube is complete shit right now. I'm going to re-align it to follow an idea a wise man had long ago: have each pack have a purpose.

Pack 1 will be the anchors the make certain themes/styles click, Pack 2 the staple effects that decks need to functionally interact and Pack 3 the weird stuff that gives decks unique character. Clean-up will be awful, but I'll give it a try for now.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Is this just like, a general abstraction of how you want the packs to be perceived or are you actually seeding the packs?

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Actually seeding the packs. I'm brainstorming if there is a way to salvage this, but this might need a reboot.

 

[safra]

Actually seeding the packs. I'm brainstorming if there is a way to salvage this, but this might need a reboot.

gold, silver and bronze star stickers (ilu dollar stores) might make cleanup a lot easier!

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I showed no mercy and hacked my list back to 488. The ratios have been repaired and while I won't be playing it until next week it "looks" right. I'm going to make a "guest stars" pile to draw cards from when I want variety so that crazy interactions can happen without making the actual cube into an draftable mess. Cube Tutor is not updated yet.

 

[Chris Taylor]

How do you feel about the various archetypes in place at the moment? I'm noticing there's a lot of them going on, and I worry about the number of narrow cards in place (Hardened Scales is great, a pack of 15 hardened scales is not)

Also, from OP: Nantuko Husk mana cost changed to 1B

Interesting, I remember this being a 2/1 bloodthrone vampire instead, what prompted the change? Zombie is probably better on average (Though I notice some vampire cards) and 2 toughness is deffinitly better, was the card that weak? My drafters are nervous about me adding the old version!

 

[FlowerSunRain]

The size of the cube had diluted things too much and the staple cards were getting too hard to draft. When I cut down (now at 480) I hacked away at narrow cards and "filler redundancy". In flipping over test packs, it "feels" like the ratios are back where it needs to be. Its probably back to where it was in December when the list was probably at its peak. Remember, I don't run land in my cube, so I do have more slots then most people.

But, yeah, the 720 card abomination that is currently on Cube Tutor doesn't really function. Cutting 33% of the list was necessary. It can probably run at 540 (12 man) size before it starts to break down.

When I dumped the vampire theme, I made the swap. There are three cards in my cube that care about zombies, as opposed to 5 cards that cared about vampire-zombies in the old cube. The old card was not weak, so we'll see if it needs to go back to 2/1. Changed the 2 to a 1 was just one more thing to sharpie.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Ah, good call. I did forget about the lands thing!

Do you think you'll land on a ULD-esque idea for the "Guest Stars" or a more random rotating cast in the draft style solution?

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I'll probably pull "guest stars" into the draft. If the breaking point of the cube is ~540, then I can pull in about 60 guest stars. I think my pile is about 200 cards right now, so each one is about 3/10s of a slot?

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Finally making real progress on this revision.

It looks like I'm settling on 500 cards. There will be 6 or 8 20 card "guest star piles". Any two of them can be added to bring the entire list to 540 cards. Each will push something in particular or add a particular theme.

Blue devotion and mill are both out of the main cube, but will be featured in a guest star pile.

The primary shared touchstones are enchantments and graveyard.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

The last ten slots are killing my brain here!

 

[Chris Taylor]

The last ten slots are killing my brain here!

alltensignetsgo!

For real though, are you just not sure what you want more of? Are you one theme short of where you wanna be?

What cards should I be suggesting here?

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Nah, the problem here is getting the crossover cards that connect stuff together. I'm looking over different themes and trying to find unique cards that connect them together, or connect other colors into them. I'm also trying to avoid/eliminate cards that narrow gameplay (as opposed to narrow cards promote interesting gameplay).

So, I'm looking at things like red discard and seeing how it can link into white and whether it is worth it to attempt it, or to instead just through Anax and Cymede in because fuck it that's what red/white does! I'm looking at Squee and wondering if what he does is interesting at all, even if it is effective.

I've hit on some cool tech doing this, but finding a final version is just painful. If I get time I'll throw up a work in progress version in case you have suggestions. All I know is that the list must consist of ~500 cards, it might end up being a little more, but that's ok I can just make the guest star piles smaller.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Squee makes a decent guest star. I kinda only ever saw it combined with survival, but wild mongrel being a 3/3 forever and looters getting free cards seems better than what I had going on.

Can we get a map of what colors are supposed to be doing what? It'll make suggestions easier, and as well I'm just generally curious

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Ok, I've got it to the point where I would be happy to play with this list.

525 cards, which leaves room for a 15 card guest star pack. I have about 12 themed setups available, which will probably get winnowed really fast.

The two "big" themes are graveyards and enchantments.

Graveyards gives us graveyard count matters, graveyard engines and graveyard recursion.

Enchantments gives us constellation and auras.

Replenish and Starfield provide direct overlap.

I can't even begin to map out the color roles, I'll think about if I can figure a decent way to present this information. I've tried my damnedest to include enough weird cards that almost any major decktype has a reason to play any color, so its pretty messy.

Speaking of I should probably jam in Elspeth 6 or Sun Titan so that control has a reason to play white other then splashing for spot removal.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

So, yeah, I'm revising again and as usual its a trainwreck. Cubetutor list is NOT complete. Looks like 576 cards, which is 48x12, so probably too big. New featured custom is making bloodbond vampire a 1/1 for B. Mini-pridemate in black. Land binder is loving the new cards, though. I wonder if anyone would play Diamond Valley if I broke the bank to get one. High Market does work and it taps for mana so, yeah, probably covered already with a better card. Phyrexian Tower frequently goes first round of the ULD, sacrifice lands are awesome.

 

[Chris Taylor]

So, yeah, I'm revising again and as usual its a trainwreck. Cubetutor list is NOT complete. Looks like 576 cards, which is 48x12, so probably too big. New featured custom is making bloodbond vampire a 1/1 for B. Mini-pridemate in black. Land binder is loving the new cards, though. I wonder if anyone would play Diamond Valley if I broke the bank to get one. High Market does work and it taps for mana so, yeah, probably covered already with a better card. Phyrexian Tower frequently goes first round of the ULD, sacrifice lands are awesome.

Sounds good mate, though I'm about 80% sure you're overusing the word trainwreck here

 

[FlowerSunRain]

List is done.

Vampire/Zombie/Skeleton is a tribe. Thrull Parasite and Bloodhunter Bat are honorary members.

Warrior/Soldier is a tribe.

Here is list of trepidation:

Serra Avenger (Narrow Niche)
Topan Freeblade (Boring/Redundant)
Arashin Foremost (Redundant)
Elspeth Sun's Champion (Everyone keeps saying she's grossly powerful and dull, but she seems the best alternative in a pretty dull group.)
Gift of Estates (Weak, "board out on the play", at least Tithe cycles)
Enduring Renewal (It can probably work, but no one cares enough to try)
Sage of Fables (I have four copies of this card with 3 different custom texts, maybe the design just doesn't work)
Condescend (Boring/Redundant)
Trade Routes (Narrow/Weak)
Shepherd of Rot (Narrow)
Liliana of the Dark Realms (Weak)
Shadows of the Past (Weak)
Rakish Heir (Narrow)
Cytoplast Root Kin (Weak, he just sat the bench for a while, not sure why I'm trying him again)
Primal Command (I don't like tutors in general, but green needed a safety valve against red and Obistinate Baloth was just boring. Could be Thragtusk or one of the lifegain landfall cards I guess. Maybe Spike Feeder if I wanted to get old school. Not finks though)
Curse of Predation (Strong)
Hangarback Walker (Strong)

Cards that should almost definitely be in:

Emeria Angel
Evacuation or Cyclonic Rift

 

[Chris Taylor]

I've actually had a lot of success with Root-Kin. are people just not able to construct decks where a high percentage of their creatures have counters on them, or do you think that green (or maybe that spot on the curve) isn't where decks that have the creatures he asks for are looking for that kind of effect?
I think Thragtusk is probably my favorite of your primal command alternatives. Spike feeder seems weak (Brindle Boar lol. Damage doesn't stack anymore), and I wouldn't want Retreat to Kazandu to be taking the place of both red safety valve and counter hander outer. It's a slot I'm not sure I'd want people to jostle for
Gift of Estates: Maybe just double up on tithe? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on both cards.

Sage of Fables: Lets hear the custom texts, and why you think the card seems weak. Is it the cards fault, the decks, the drafters?