Gimmicky Cube (540, unpowered, themed)

Spiderdoofus

Spiderdoofus

I've updated this cube. Give it a draft at cubetutor and help me collect data!
http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/13664

Old post:
WU = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Galepowder Mage
1 Reveillark
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Tradewind Rider

Uncommon (16)
2 Wall of Omens
2 Flickerwisp
2 Azorius Justiciar
2 Court Street Denizen
2 Riftwing Cloudskate
2 Ghostly Flicker
2 Lyev Skyknight
2 Mistmeadow Witch

Common (24)
3 Azorius Arrester
3 Kor Skyfisher
3 Momentary Blink
3 Whitemane Lion
3 Aether Adept
3 Mulldrifter
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Archeomancer

(0)


WB = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Rhox Faithmender
1 Felidar Sovereign
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Pontiff of Blight
1 Crypt Ghast

Uncommon (16)
2 Knight of Obligation
2 Lingering Souls
2 Ajani's Pridemate
2 Feudkiller's Verdict
2 Blood Artist
2 Greed
2 Tithe Drinker
2 Vizkopa Guildmage

Common (24)
3 Syndic of Tithes
3 Basilica Guards
3 Aven Riftwatcher
3 Soul Warden
3 Syndicate Enforcer
3 Basilica Screecher
3 Grey Merchant of Asphodel
3 Vendetta

(0)


UB = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Shakashima's Student
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Puppeteer Clique

Uncommon (16)
2 Glen Elendra Pranksters
2 Familiar's Ruse
2 Faerie Imposter
2 Cloud of Faeries
2 Marsh Flitter
2 Throat Slitter
2 Shipwreck Singer
2 Call of the Nightwing

Common (24)
3 Pestermite
3 Sentinels of Glen Elendra
3 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Dreamspoiler Witches
3 Thieving Sprite
3 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
3 Launch Party

(0)


UR = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Kaho, Minamo Historian
1 Talrand, the Sky Summoner
1 River Kelpie
1 Past in Flames
1 Charmbreaker Devils

Uncommon (16)
2 Grasp of Phantoms
2 Turn // Burn
2 Mystical Teachings
2 Brain Freeze
2 Guttersnipe
2 Burning Vengeance
2 Goblin Electromancer
2 Gelectrode

Common (24)
3 Preordain
3 Think Twice
3 Dream Twist
3 Delver of Secrets
3 Firebolt
3 Kiln Fiend
3 Flame Jab
3 Faithless Looting

(0)


BR = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Grave Pact
1 Death Cloud
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Siege-Gang Commander

Uncommon (16)
2 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Scavenger Drake
2 Reassembling Skeleton
2 Gnawing Zombie
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Rakdos Cackler
2 Murderous Redcap

Common (24)
3 Carrion Feeder
3 Dregscape Zombie
3 Viscera Dragger
3 Bloodthrone Vampire
3 Mogg Fanatic
3 Mogg Warmarshal
3 Hellspark Elemental
3 Vithian Stinger

(0)


BG = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Sewer Nemesis
1 Extractor Demon
1 Corpse Dance
1 Splinterfright
1 Deadbridge Goliath

Uncommon (16)
2 Tortured Existence
2 Unburial Rites
2 Reanimate
2 Undercity Informer
2 Boneyard Wurm
2 Life from the Loam
2 Pharika's Mender
2 Worm Harvest

Common (24)
3 Balustrade Spy
3 Gravedigger
3 Stinkweed Imp
3 Rotting Rats
3 Krosan Tusker
3 Golgari Brownscale
3 Jungle Weaver
3 Gnaw to the Bone

(0)


RG = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Ember Swallower
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Molten Disaster
1 Birthing Pod
1 Reach of Branches

Uncommon (16)
2 Recoup
2 Stoneshock Giant
2 Grab the Reins
2 Flametongue Kavu
2 Eternal Witness
2 Nemesis of Mortals
2 Ground Assault
2 Skarrg Guildmage

Common (24)
3 Fiery Fall
3 Ridge Rannet
3 Chartooth Cougar
3 Ill-Tempered Cyclops
3 Sakura Tribe Elder
3 Cultivate
3 Nessian Asp
3 Citanul Woodreaders

(0)


RW = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Five-Alarm Fire
1 Emeria Angel
1 Geist-Honored Monk

Uncommon (16)
2 Skirsdag Cultist
2 Firefist Striker
2 Stormblood Berserker
2 Blood Ogre
2 Accorder Paladin
2 Goldnight Commander
2 Akroan Hoplite
2 Sunhome Guildmage

Common (24)
3 Gorehorn Minotaurs
3 Skinbrand Goblin
3 Massive Raid
3 Krenko's Command
3 Daring Skyjek
3 Boros Elite
3 Doomed Traveller
3 Deftblade Elite

(0)


GW = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Doubling Season
1 Collective Unconscious
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Scion of Vitu-Ghazi
1 Cloudgoat Ranger

Uncommon (16)
2 Bestial Menace
2 Sprout Swarm
2 Ivy Lane Denizen
2 Masked Admirers
2 Midnight Haunting
2 Phantom General
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage

Common (24)
3 Moldervine Cloak
3 Travel Preparations
3 Penumbra Spider
3 Centaur's Herald
3 Eyes in the Sky
3 Trostani's Judgment
3 Seller of Songbirds
3 Attended Knight

(0)


GU = 45 (0)

Rare (5)
1 Polukranos
1 Renegade Krasis
1 Ooze Flux
1 Simic Manipulator
1 Cytoplast Manipulator

Uncommon (16)
2 Crowned Ceratok
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Experiment One
2 Roaring Primadox
2 Leech Bonder
2 Simic Fluxmage
2 Shambleshark
2 Zameck Guildmage

Common (24)
3 Giant Dustwasp
3 Durkwood Baloth
3 Nantuko Shaman
3 Young Wolf
3 Cloudfin Raptor
3 Steady Progress
3 Stormbound Geist
3 Errant Ephemeron

(0)


Multicolor (10)
1 Lavinia of the Tenth
1 Divinity of Pride
1 Silent-Blade Oni
1 Melek, Izzet Paragon
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Borborygmos, Enraged
1 Firemane Avenger
1 Collective Blessing
1 Vorel of the Hull Clade

(0)


Land (25)
5 Triland
10 Vivid Land
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost

(0)
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
All environments have their mix of linear and less linear strategies. Perhaps you can dig up Zac Hill's Innistrad design notes, he does a good job talking about this kind of idea.

It looks like most of your themes aren't too mechanically isolated. Things like kicker and cycling and battalion just slot into regular decks. I might be a little more careful with the Golgari themes. Basically I would focus on how to layer the archetypes and find cards that do well across multiple themes / mechanics.

The one I am most concerned with is the artifact theme. It was executed really poorly in Alara, and poorly in Modern Masters (in my opinion), as a ton of their card designs just have no value outside of the artifact deck. I don't know if it's good for the environment, but maybe you can pull it off with clever executon.
 
Miasmir

Miasmir

When artifacts are just one of many themes you're trying to push, you need cards that are already playable on their own but give extra benefit to the artifact deck, sometimes for subtle reasons. Depending on what your curve already looks like, Galvanic Blast, Kuldotha Phoenix, and Indomitable Archangel could all be reasonable inclusions even without a large artifact density in the cube. They're ordinary cards that incentivize you to pick up artifacts that are otherwise marginal in your deck. In general you want as many of your slots as possible to be cards that help more than one strategy.

Whenever you're trying to assemble a deck that uses a linear mechanic like arcane or a threshold mechanic like metalcraft, cards that provide selection go up considerably in value. Considering how many of those you've outlined here, I'd recommend a significantly above average number of cheap selection cards to make sure everyone has the tools to play a consistent deck. I mention this because in the list you posted I don't see a single Ponder or Preordain variant.

Also it looks sweet and I want to draft it. Good luck!
 
Spiderdoofus

Spiderdoofus

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

I think artifacts may be too narrow of a theme. My judgment was a bit blinded by having done well with them in MMA drafts.

Jason, that Zac Hill article is super helpful! It's going to change everything. I think I can make the Golgari themes work, they interact with flashback, cycling, milling, and some of the dredge guys are just good on their own (e.g., Stinkweed Imp).
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
big jim said:
Thanks for the feedback, guys!

I think artifacts may be too narrow of a theme. My judgment was a bit blinded by having done well with them in MMA drafts.

Jason, that Zac Hill article is super helpful! It's going to change everything. I think I can make the Golgari themes work, they interact with flashback, cycling, milling, and some of the dredge guys are just good on their own (e.g., Stinkweed Imp).
Click to expand...

Sweet, glad to hear the article was useful! Keep up the work, this is looking like a fun cube.
 
Spiderdoofus

Spiderdoofus

Ok, latest idea...life gain as a theme for b/w just seemed unexciting. My brother had the idea of expanding it to life gain and life payments. So white would have the majority of cards that gained life and black would have cards that cost life. I am looking for black cards that have life as a payment and are powerful, but not overpowered, and are playable in other non-life-gaining decks.

Here are the inclusions I'm thinking about:
Greed - over Yawgmoth's Bargain (not always good), Phyrexian Arena (too powerful), and Underworld Connections (another possibility). Not sure on this one. Probably will include 2 copies of this effect. What do you guys think?

Vendetta
Reanimate - synergy with the G/B graveyard deck
Night's Whisper
Bloodghast - synergy with the R/B sacrifice deck


Any other interesting ideas? Looking for cards that would work better when you are gaining life or extorting the opponent.
 
Spiderdoofus

Spiderdoofus

Didn't think of Graveborn Muse, that's a good idea, thanks!

EDIT: Also looking for something for artifacts to be doing now that I cut affinity. Will probably include some sunburst, and then maybe just utility stuff. I'm thinking I don't want to add artifacts that play too much into any color pair strategy as that's almost like adding cards to those color sections, but I'm not sure about that. I'm not set on having equal color sections, but would have to have a good reason not to.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
big jim said:
Didn't think of Graveborn Muse, that's a good idea, thanks!

EDIT: Also looking for something for artifacts to be doing now that I cut affinity. Will probably include some sunburst, and then maybe just utility stuff. I'm thinking I don't want to add artifacts that play too much into any color pair strategy as that's almost like adding cards to those color sections, but I'm not sure about that. I'm not set on having equal color sections, but would have to have a good reason not to.
Click to expand...

You could always run something like Crystal Shard in your blue section.
 
Spiderdoofus

Spiderdoofus

Yeah, I was thinking about stuff like Myr Sire that are good on their own, but really would shine in the sacrifice deck. I might try to add in a few artifact creatures for each deck like that; ones that are pseudo-colored because of the themes. Stuff like Porcelain Legionnaire, which is a solid aggro card, but is slightly better in the life gain/life payment deck.
 
Spiderdoofus

Spiderdoofus

I ended up cutting the artifact theme. After drafting MMA more, I ended up feeling it was too narrow, too linear, and was kind of hit-or-miss in that if there were few drafters, it was good, but otherwise, it didn't work out.

I am still refining the list, acquiring cards, and so forth. I put an updated list in the first post.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I love the new organization in that it really illuminates your thought process. On the downside, it is a little bit tricky to see how these themes might interact. Have you found that successful players generally just go into one of the 10 themes and build it out or has there been a lot of room for experimentation?

I like the idea of this cube a lot and I only looked at it briefly, so I will hopefully come back to it with better feedback later.
 
Spiderdoofus

Spiderdoofus

I'm still picking up all the cards for it, so it's still in the conceptual stage. I'm about 70% of the way there I think.

A big change in my thinking about limited is that I think formats work best when there's plentiful, but conditional or costly removal. I'm trying to figure out how to balance that for this cube. I may need one good one though, like Murder over Vendetta. Also, still not sure on Call of the Nightwing. It has some synergy with UB tempo/aggro/fliers, which is the theme of UB, and with the sacrifice outlets in B, but I'm wondering if something else would be better.

Edit: Also looking for a good red uncommon in the RG ramp deck. Arc Blade seems ok, maybe Grinning Ingus?
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I'm looking some more at this cube and I like what I see.

Vampire Nighthawk seems out of place. He's really just a big ball of stats in a section based on trickery, it seems out of place. Boneshredder could be good here. Liliana's Specter could also be good, but I take it that cards in the "uncommon" spot have to actually be uncommons.

I'm having a hard time envisioning the red/blue section being very effective. Without burst mana, I don't think storm counts are going to get you anywhere. The entire house of cards seems to be resting on the two Goblin Electromancers, which is not a good place to be. I would consider reorganizing around cards like gelectrode, Spellheart Chimera and Nivix Cyclops along with the Kiln Fiend and Delvers you already run. Unfortunately, all three of those are gold cards and not spells! I may be wrong, but I'm having a hard time seeing this section being competitive.

For a Red/Green Uncommon, you could go with Gruul War Chant or Fires of Yavimaya to give your ramped creatures a jumpstart. Savage Twister could serve a a sweeper if you want to go that route.
If anything, this thread has taught me thinking of cards in terms of rarity is really hard if you've never done it before. I was trying to think of an uncommon creature that would be good to ramp into, but I really don't know which creatures are uncommons, I tried typing in trample in gatherer while sorting uncommons and I got Pelukka Wurm and Baloth Woodcrasher.

The other themes all seem pretty good and fun to play, but I would be careful that with the number of high toughness creatures around that you have enough removal to keep the action flowing.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Jim, any chance you could either post your list on CubeTutor, or alternately, use the [deck] tags here? I find that I'm not familiar with a lot of the cards you've included, and it's a royal pain to open a new window every time I want to figure out what a card does.

If you decide to post your list here, do this:
Code: 
[deck=GU]Rares
1 Polukranos
1 Renegade Krasis
1 Gyre Sage
1 Simic Manipulator
1 Cytoplast Manipulator
 
Uncommons
2 Crowned Ceratok
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Experiment One
2 Roaring Primadox
2 Leech Bonder
2 Simic Fluxmage
2 Shambleshark
2 Zameck Guildmage
 
Commons
3 Giant Dustwasp
3 Durkwood Baloth
3 Nantuko Shaman
3 Young Wolf
3 Cloudfin Raptor
3 Steady Progress
3 Stormbound Geist
3 Errant Ephemeron[/deck]

To get this.

GU

Rares (5)
1 Polukranos
1 Renegade Krasis
1 Gyre Sage
1 Simic Manipulator
1 Cytoplast Manipulator

Uncommons (16)
2 Crowned Ceratok
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Experiment One
2 Roaring Primadox
2 Leech Bonder
2 Simic Fluxmage
2 Shambleshark
2 Zameck Guildmage

Commons (24)
3 Giant Dustwasp
3 Durkwood Baloth
3 Nantuko Shaman
3 Young Wolf
3 Cloudfin Raptor
3 Steady Progress
3 Stormbound Geist
3 Errant Ephemeron
 
Spiderdoofus

Spiderdoofus

FlowerSunRain said:
I'm looking some more at this cube and I like what I see.

Vampire Nighthawk seems out of place. He's really just a big ball of stats in a section based on trickery, it seems out of place. Boneshredder could be good here. Liliana's Specter could also be good, but I take it that cards in the "uncommon" spot have to actually be uncommons.
Click to expand...

That's not a hard and fast rule, but it's been helpful in finding the cards of the right power level. I've changed some rarities, for instance, bumping Greed to uncommon. I tried to keep UB centered on "disruptive aggro/tempo." I cut Nighthawk for Marsh Flitter, which was in BR, and added Gnawing Zombie.

FlowerSunRain said:
I'm having a hard time envisioning the red/blue section being very effective. Without burst mana, I don't think storm counts are going to get you anywhere. The entire house of cards seems to be resting on the two Goblin Electromancers, which is not a good place to be. I would consider reorganizing around cards like gelectrode, Spellheart Chimera and Nivix Cyclops along with the Kiln Fiend and Delvers you already run. Unfortunately, all three of those are gold cards and not spells! I may be wrong, but I'm having a hard time seeing this section being competitive.
Click to expand...

I added Gelectrode, and cut the storm stuff. I don't think the Cyclops and the other spell pumpers, Kiln Fiend included are great, especially without enablers like Assault Strobe. I dunno, I'm hoping flashback, Burning Vegeance, and some cards from the other sections will help make UR control a thing.

FlowerSunRain said:
For a Red/Green Uncommon, you could go with Gruul War Chant or Fires of Yavimaya to give your ramped creatures a jumpstart. Savage Twister could serve a a sweeper if you want to go that route.
If anything, this thread has taught me thinking of cards in terms of rarity is really hard if you've never done it before. I was trying to think of an uncommon creature that would be good to ramp into, but I really don't know which creatures are uncommons, I tried typing in trample in gatherer while sorting uncommons and I got Pelukka Wurm and Baloth Woodcrasher.
Click to expand...


Pelakka Wurm is awesome, I also thought about the Wooadcrasher and considered Deadwood Treefolk. I have a lot of the cycling creatures, which are good to ramp into and also have synergy with the graveyard deck. The original theme of RG was "alternate costs" but ended up going more in the ramp direction. I agree that section lacks something though.

I'm getting close to where I am just going to order the cards I don't have and see how it plays though.
 
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