General Graveyard Cube Contest Entry

The current version: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/7045

I've been working on this over the last few days and I'm at a point where I could use some help. If you could take the time to draft the cube, post your deck and any thoughts - which cards seem too powerful, what seems out of place, any glaring omissions that I've made - please let me know.

I'm deliberately not going to include any information on archetypes or buildarounds that are in the cube, I'm hoping some of this stuff comes up organically.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!
 
Things I'm not sure about:
For everyone who's drafted, were there any cards that either made you excited to try them or confused you as to their purpose?
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Things I'm not sure about:
Funny. I first-picked Marshal's Anthem. That card is crazy awesome!


Onderzeeboot's Junkyard from CubeTutor.com











Isn't Recurring Nightmare just OP? It's so uninteractive, only way to nab it is with targeted discard spells or counterspells, because it returns to the hand.

I saw a Return to the Ranks that seemed pretty awful, and super redundant anyway, since you run Rally the Ancestors and Immortal Servitude as well.
 
I think you're right on Recurring Nightmare, and Tortured Existence kind of does the same thing without being so oppressive. I'll cut it when I update today.
 
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I don't know if it was someone from here or from the wider world but a person drafted my cube and left a very nice long comment. They pointed out in particular that Jace's Phantasm is a strange choice because it punishes people for filling their graveyards, which is counter to the point of the cube. I don't know if anyone else has any feelings on this particular card but I do think that cutting it may be a good idea. Any thoughts?
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
I don't know if it was someone from here or from the wider world but a person drafted my cube and left a very nice long comment. They pointed out in particular that Jace's Phantasm is a strange choice because it punishes people for filling their graveyards, which is counter to the point of the cube. I don't know if anyone else has any feelings on this particular card but I do think that cutting it may be a good idea. Any thoughts?

I would think Jace's Phantasm would be so much more interesting in this environment, no? Either that or a consistent 1 mana 5/5 flyer, which is busted.
 
I don't know if it was someone from here or from the wider world but a person drafted my cube and left a very nice long comment. They pointed out in particular that Jace's Phantasm is a strange choice because it punishes people for filling their graveyards, which is counter to the point of the cube. I don't know if anyone else has any feelings on this particular card but I do think that cutting it may be a good idea. Any thoughts?

Environments need the tension of play-counterplay. Jace's Phantasm is a very good pick here, but it still takes a few turns to come online, at which point it does a mean Tarmogoyf impression. You also can't enable it yourself, which is a big deal; your opponent can play around it early game, or wait to bin to 10 until they draw into removal. I think offering a way to beat down on opposing GY strats with the Phantasm is a nice, soft punisher for graveyard shenanigans, personally, but I could see going down to 1 copy if it's a concern.
 
Funny. I first-picked Marshal's Anthem. That card is crazy awesome!


I really enjoyed Marshal's Anthem in ALA-ZEN Standard Singleton (a competitive mtgo format circa 2010). It is a great midrange card that also doubles as an expensive Breath of Life. With a few more token producers in Naya colors, it could really shine.

RE: Jace's Phantasm and tension, is there any reason for having so few anti-graveyard cards? I imagine this is a format where Jotun Grunt or Thraben Heretic could be highly sought after picks. I like the notion that anti-GY cards are weaker in effect - Scrabbling Claws over Relic of Progenitus, Crypt Creeper over Withered Wretch - but still provide interaction on the GY-as-a-resource axis of the environment.
 
I want to keep the amount of anti-graveyard cards fairly low as if there's too much I think it will disincentivize people to make use of the graveyard. Right now, it probably is a bit too low, and stuff like Thraben Heretic and Crypt Creeper are things I've missed which should probably be included.

I'm pretty happy with where the list is at the moment but there are a few cards I'm a bit unsure about.
  • Glassdust Hulk - artifact synergies seem like they want to be spread through red as well as blue and white, does this guy have a place? I had him in as a cool win condition for Open the Vaults shenanigans (and he cycles) but I'm not sure it's the best fit
  • Lightning Rift - I've cut this but I think it could come back in. Cycling again is concentrated in white and I assume green is a good pairing, but white/red could work as well. The thing is, white/red already has artifacts and tokens as themes and I don't want to overload it. Cycling/Tokens do cross over fairly well though as Astral Slide plus the token makers works.
  • Martyr of Sands - is it worth trying to make this work? Maybe go down to one copy? Is Proclamation of Rebirth playable without this card?
  • Ajani's Pridemate - it's gone at the moment but if Martyr is a deck perhaps I need this back. Works really well with Blood Artist effects too.
  • Claws of Gix - is this card terrible?
  • The 3-colour cards - I've done a bunch of drafts and most of these have never looked appealing. I might cut the 5 shard cards and leave in the wedges as they are a bit more interesting.
  • Starfield of Nyx - this whole thing just seems bad but maybe I'm being overly pessimistic
Any more slow graveyard hate cards anyone can think of?
 
Re graveyard hate, this thread is probaly useful:
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/graveyard-hate.902/

I would recommend:



I would try and keep roar of the wurm. Precursor golem seems like a strange power add.

I want to keep the amount of anti-graveyard cards fairly low as if there's too much I think it will disincentivize people to make use of the graveyard. Right now, it probably is a bit too low, and stuff like Thraben Heretic and Crypt Creeper are things I've missed which should probably be included.

I'm pretty happy with where the list is at the moment but there are a few cards I'm a bit unsure about.
  • Glassdust Hulk - artifact synergies seem like they want to be spread through red as well as blue and white, does this guy have a place? I had him in as a cool win condition for Open the Vaults shenanigans (and he cycles) but I'm not sure it's the best fit
  • Lightning Rift - I've cut this but I think it could come back in. Cycling again is concentrated in white and I assume green is a good pairing, but white/red could work as well. The thing is, white/red already has artifacts and tokens as themes and I don't want to overload it. Cycling/Tokens do cross over fairly well though as Astral Slide plus the token makers works.
  • Martyr of Sands - is it worth trying to make this work? Maybe go down to one copy? Is Proclamation of Rebirth playable without this card?
  • Ajani's Pridemate - it's gone at the moment but if Martyr is a deck perhaps I need this back. Works really well with Blood Artist effects too.
  • Claws of Gix - is this card terrible?
  • The 3-colour cards - I've done a bunch of drafts and most of these have never looked appealing. I might cut the 5 shard cards and leave in the wedges as they are a bit more interesting.
  • Starfield of Nyx - this whole thing just seems bad but maybe I'm being overly pessimistic
Any more slow graveyard hate cards anyone can think of?

I like glassdust hulk, but it will operate better if you have more investigate/splicers, but not sure if that's what you want to do here.

The card you want instead of lightning rift to support astral slide is:



My gut feel is that you can go down to one martyr of sands, but you will need to look at other things to support proclaimation of rebirth if you want to keep it:

benevolent bodyguard
topplegeist
return to the ranks
heap doll

Starfield of Nyx is really good but you want more support. Enchantments that sacrifice themselves are pretty good.

mistveil plains might be better than emeria.

Some blue creatures you might want to include:



Academy Ruins seems like it would be a good fit here?

Lots of black creatures you could be running that you're not:

sanitarium skeleton
apprentice necromancer
asylum visitor
reassembling skeleton
undertaker
doomed necromancer
undercity informer
mindwrack demon
sewer nemesis
soul of innistrad
tasigur, the golden fang
scourge of nel toth

That's probably enough for now, but this might be useful/interesting:

http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/62209
 
Alright I'm going to pick your post apart a bit to help organise my thoughts.

Re graveyard hate, this thread is probaly useful:
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/graveyard-hate.902/

I would recommend:


These all seem pretty good, although I'm wary of repeatable removal especially if it doesn't tap whatever's using it, so Nezumi Graverobber might not be the best.

I would try and keep roar of the wurm. Precursor golem seems like a strange power add.

I go back and forth on Roar. Is {3}{G} 6/6 even good any more, given you have to jump through hoops? Precursor is because I wanted more tokeny stuff but I'm not sure it's the best fit either. Whilst I'm thinking of it, maybe Urza's Factory

I like glassdust hulk, but it will operate better if you have more investigate/splicers, but not sure if that's what you want to do here.

Will store this for later thought. I want it to be good but I'm not optimistic.


The card you want instead of lightning rift to support astral slide is:


You are correct, that absolutely is the card I want!



My gut feel is that you can go down to one martyr of sands, but you will need to look at other things to support proclaimation of rebirth if you want to keep it:

benevolent bodyguard
topplegeist
return to the ranks
heap doll

Bodyguard is one I had written down somewhere and lost, he's definitely in. Topplegeist also seems perfect for the white/blue tempo-y deck. Someone earlier in the thread suggested cutting return to the ranks because it's somewhat redundant with Rally the Ancestors and Immortal Servitude, but it might just be better than servitude and I need to find another Orzhov card. Heap Doll is exactly what I need and I never would have found it, thank you!


Starfield of Nyx is really good but you want more support. Enchantments that sacrifice themselves are pretty good.

It turns out there aren't that many of these unfortunately. Perhaps auras that have an enters the battlefield effect? Faith's Fetters, Flight of Fancy (though I don't really want to leak this theme into blue as well), the others from that cycle that I don't remember. That way you can at least put them on your own guys and then sacrifice them for value. I think part of the problem is I don't really know what kind of deck the Starfield Engine wants to be powering. It's pretty cool with like Choking Restraints. I know there's a white enchant from Commander that exiles an attacking creature, I'll try and find that and see if I like the look of it.


mistveil plains might be better than emeria.

I agree.


Some blue creatures you might want to include:


I like River Kelpie, that's really cool. For Volrath's Shapeshifter, I've been trying to avoid graveyard order matters cards as I think quite often you are going to be putting multiple cards in your graveyard at a time and having to think about the order every time is too much of a mental tax that can be easily avoided. Ambassador Laquatas - I have also avoided easy ways to mill your opponent since I don't want people to deck out every game. I think he's probably too powerful. The others are cool, I'll see if anything can be cut for them.



Academy Ruins seems like it would be a good fit here?
It's been in and out, I'm not sure on it. I was thinking that Slaver locking someone should be difficult to achieve but them again I have Bringer of the White Dawn so this is probably fine. A thought: Composite Golem



Black is super hard to keep down to 70, there's so much stuff as you can imagine. Some of these will probably make for good upgrades though.


That's probably enough for now, but this might be useful/interesting:

http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/62209


Awesome resource, thanks!
 
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Another quick update. I think I need something to replace Precursor but I'm not sure what. Maybe another Heap Doll.

E: actually I'd miscounted somewhere and was short a white card, Topplegeist is in.
 
I think I'm done tinkering, this is what I have as a first draft for the blurb to go along with it. I'd appreciate any feedback. Is it too silly/flippant?


Welcome to the Graveyard Cube! Whether you like putting things in your graveyard, taking them out, or just counting all the things you've sent there, you're bound to find some new and exciting way to interact with everybody's favourite zone. Maybe you want to fill it up with creatures and make huge Boneyard Wurms and Nighthowlers. Perhaps you want to generate a swarm of tokens and throw them in your opponent's face whilst cackling to yourself. Or maybe, just maybe, all you've ever wanted is to put Seance in a deck.

Drawing on the design of Odyssey, Time Spiral, and both Innistrad blocks, as well as graveyard centric and graveyard adjacent constructed decks through the years, the Graveyard Cube aims to make you think in a different way about Magic and what’s important within each game. The design is centred around the various different card types and colours, and how they interact with the graveyard. Some are more fairly straightforward - Black obviously cares most about creatures, both how many you've managed to stuff into your graveyard and killing off those that managed to claw their way out. Others are a little more subtle - figuring out the puzzle of how to maximise Red's artifact tools or regrow lands for Green might take a bit more thought.

The various combinations of colours open up all the traditional theatres of aggro, midrange, combo, tempo and control, but the results are decidedly non-traditional. Aggro decks can rely on constant recursion of various threats, going wide with tokens; control might involve managing the board with Red's various mass removal spells before flashing back a flurry of spells to land the killing blow with Burning Vengeance. Combo is the most exciting part of the cube - with so many moving parts all focusing on the same area, you can pull together two or three cards you've never have thought of for a big payoff. I've never cast Scapeshift with both Atog and Tireless Tracker in play, but I know I want to try.

So why is this a good choice for Magic Online? Well, as it turns out, a format where both players care about both graveyards, and different aspects of both graveyards, at virtually all times, is kind of a nightmare to play in paper Magic. Luckily, on MTGO you can just pop out both graveyards (highly recommended) and have everything laid out in front of you. Things like delirium, threshold and most notoriously Tarmogoyf size are tracked automatically, and flashback cards are highlighted for ease of reference.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my submission, and I hope you have even half as much fun reviewing it as I had designing it.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I like it. Only thing I would change is an "and" or "or" instead of the comma between "rely on constant recursion of various threats" and "going wide with tokens", because constant recursion of various threats does not logically lead to going wide with tokens.
 
I would try to use more space in the blurb talking about what each color does in particular. I doubt the judges have enough time to read through every cube list in full. The blurb is probably the best place to actually talk about what sets the cube apart on a micro level.
 
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