General Great Cards to go deep on

Tzenmoroth

Tzenmoroth

The archetype that warped my cube the most:



My drafters love going deep to build around this for some reason. I did it once and casting this was pretty orgasmic so I can't blame them. Pretty sure this card holds the record for all-time most lawls.


I love reaching turn 15 in 2 minutes with a cumulative storm count of 1. Best Magic.


I'm excited just thinking about drafting this.


I get to assemble a value machine during the draft then play a minigame with my opponent? Best deal ever.
 
Diakonov

Diakonov

Time Warp is a great call. I need to work that back into my cube. Huge fan of Gifts Ungiven, also.



I really enjoy the agonizing decision-making that these cards present. Building a deck that makes them work in your favor is a nice little puzzle.



I tend to bring Kokusho up a lot, but I really do love powerful death triggers. If you can get any of these going with any sort of recursion engine, it's a nice win condition with little to no attacking necessary.



In my cube, drafting a Squadron Hawk or Myr Servitor provides you with 4 copies total. I like finding ways to turn bad card advantage into good card advantage. Again, a fun puzzle to build around.



I love awkward recursion.

Some other random individuals that I enjoy:



(Arachnus Spinner comes with two Arachnus Webs)
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
I won't steal you know what from you know who...

So instead I will post the card I love to talk about the most:

I should have gone deep on this card. It feels like it doubled in price overnight :\
Can be used as a control finisher, combo with Lab Man, fodder for Goblin Welder it always leads me to memorable decks. I shall keep spouting its praises for no real reason.

Other cards that I can't help myself with:



I seem to have taken this thread as the 'pet card thread'. Well, when you see a pet card you always go deep on it right? :D
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Alfonzo Bonzo said:
I'm not sure I understand the concept of this thread. What's the difference between 'going deep' and build around? What does going deep even mean? Sorry if I'm being thick.
Click to expand...


No, its ok. The semantics are certainly up for debate.

Build Arounds

I tend to think of build arounds as cards that you literally have to warp your draft around, so they have to be taken fairly early.




They often tend to be cards with very unique effects, and you may end up breaking singleton on them in order to get critical density. Decks function very differently, depending on if this card is drawn over the course of the game.

Going Deep/Archetype Deepners

I tend to think of these are cards that fit very well into existing archetypes, but start to deviate them in a new, or interesting direction, adding another layer to an archetype. Admittedly, I probably need a better term to describe this.





I could have a perfectly valid UB or UG tempo deck that I've been drafting, see undead alchemist in the middle of pack 2, and it suddenly adds a unique dimension. It fits well within an existing basic structure of bounce, counters, and creatures, but adds a new enough dimension where it begins to impact subsequent picks or deck construction.

I could be drafting a perfectly valid reanimation deck, see living death later in the packs, and it also can start to subtly shift the way I draft and build my deck. Of course, you could pick them very early, but the effects are not overly unique, and they fit well within existing draft archetypes, rather than requiring the entire draft be warped around them.

These decks are going to function largely along the same strategic axis regardless of if the card in question is drawn.

Deck Completion Effects



This is kind of an inverse build around, and I could again, benefit from a better term. These are cards that are probably going to naturally wheel into the deck that wants them, and when they do, they perfect the strategy. They are specialized cards that you don't have to pick up early and warp your draft around, but which are the perfect cards to round out an existing archetype, and which seem to complete its identity.

In the penny cube, their are lots of great flash creatures and instants in UB, leading you naturally towards a certain deck that mystical teachings is the perfect card for.

This is different from a build around, because teachings fits naturally into an existing deck, rather than requiring the draft be warped around itself from the near start. This is different from an archetype deepner, because it doesn't take the deck into a new strategic dimension: it just completes the existing strategy, and is the penultimate card for that deck.
 
sigh

sigh

I think trying to aim for this second category of "deepeners" is a good goal. Having cards that flavor the drafting without singlehandedly shaping draft direction seems like a solid concept. There's something there to be said about stuff like jeskai ascendancy, and could it just be something else, maybe in {U}{R}, that can bring a unique deckbuilding experience, without taking over the deck concept?

One from the OP that already has my mind abuzz is

Think there could be something nice here. But don't know exactly what yet...
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Any sort of recursion with time warp is really fun. Regrowth effects, mnemonic wall: just finding ways to use Spell recursive tools to maximize the number of turns you take is a blast.
 
sigh

sigh

Yeah, totally agree. I think here, now, is where the art of making depth comes in. How do you make them want this setup, and have it be beneficial? The reward has to be there for the risk of a card that promises a unique avenue. Something to consider for this thread in general...

Edit: by which I mean you generally can't go deep in isolation. Colors and formats might need to shift subtly (or not) to accomodate
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
One of the good things about time warp specifically, is thats its just a generally good card, making it very easy to accommodate. Something like haakron requires a lot more support to be generally reasonable.

One card I really wish was runnable is



But I know its just a pipe dream.
 
BZ Gunshot

BZ Gunshot

Tzenmoroth said:
The archetype that warped my cube the most:
Click to expand...


How does Obliterate play out? The only way I can really see of breaking it is with superfriends control which I try to avoid promoting too hard, though pulling it off with a team of walkers in play would be really sweet.
 
Tzenmoroth

Tzenmoroth

Superfiends? Zendikar Resurgent? Obliterate decks are a house over here and don't look anything like that :p . You play usually RGx with ramp and misc ways to have something post-Obliterate. Planeswalkers will do it but also anything like these:



You really just need to hit 8 mana with any setup that gives you basically anything after it resolves and you win. It was pretty much an experimental include but my playgroup has taken to it. Being easier to setup and harder to stop make it worth the extra {2} I think compared to the widfires.
 
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