General Having different configurations for different packs

Dom Harvey

Contributor
This is an idea that Jason (iirc) floated on the Google group but was never fleshed out any further. I think it's worth discussing though, even if only as a thought experiment. We've all run up against the problem of having to cut borderline Cube-worthy cards from our lists so as to not dilute the Cube too much. It's also much harder to justify including build-around-me cards when you can't control when they will show up in the draft: a Birthing Pod or Sneak Attack or whatever in pack 3 will almost always be glossed over unless someone happens to have picked up the right selection of cards beforehand. You can see this at work in retail draft formats, particularly with the reverse draft order - Burning Vengeance is probably the best recent example. Even when those cards are in the first pack, support for them is lacking in the other packs so the archetype is dead in the water in full block draft: see Furnace Celebration, Dampen Thought, and so on. As a custom draft format Cube lets us explore this design space in a way that we don't get to normally.

Naturally people's Cubes, especially here, differ to such an extent that there isn't a core of cards that definitely belong in the second pack or w/e, but we can discuss the general principles behind the choice of cards for each pack slot:

- Where possible, two-card combos shouldn't be in the same pack.
- I assume this also applies to cards that fill a generic role - you don't want all of your counterspells or burn clustered in one pack, for instance.
- One thing I've thought would be interesting for two-set retail formats like IID is to put the one pack in the middle, so you'd draft IDI instead. This would force you to reevaluate the same cards on the spot given the outcome of the second pack. This works better for some cards than others - Incinerate or Mana Leak are always going to be as functionally good no matter when drafted, the only question is whether you need more of that effect. One possibility is to split the duplicated archetype cards up like this: for example you could have 2 Gravecrawlers in pack 1, the other 2 in pack 3, and concentrate the cards that interact with the Zombie subtheme in pack 2. This also helps avoid the problem of putting cards that land you in niche archetypes in pack 1, which is that it becomes easy to scoop one up and go on cruise control for the rest of the draft, just taking whichever card obviously fits best in your deck.

Thoughts? I think this is a fascinating topic.
 

CML

Contributor
i actually like this, if i'm understanding it correctly the utility land draft is the same idea? we're also mixing it with jason's proposed idea of 'archetype anchors', in limited your examples of furnace celebration or spider spawning or burning vengeance are great ones, and then for cube you have pod and sneak attack as above. so then the difficulty would be drawing a line between 'fit for normal cube' and 'in special pack' and then figuring out how you'd want to draft the special pack.

post some archetype anchors here!


post some pack arrangements here!
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
It's a bit different than the utility land draft idea. Basically, instead of having a "360 card cube" you could have your cube split into three segments. "Pack 1", "Pack 2" and "Pack 3". The order of it affects the dynamics. So for example, the current retail draft environment is interesting because you have all 10 guilds in Pack 1 (DGM), then only a certain 5 in Packs 2 and 3 (GTC and RTR). This has some positive qualities, but some "build-arounds" (e.g. Pyroconvergence) are in Pack 3, which is a little suboptimal.
 

CML

Contributor
ahhh ok. radical. (man i was thinking the new rgd block would make way more sense drafted rgd and not dgr, guess ill have to find out tonight!) but this makes me like your idea even more, maybe hybridize what both jason and i were talking about.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Hey, Magic historians out there, how about we break it down to something simpler for now. What dynamics have historically existed in pack to pack drafting? Let's start there and see if there are any ideas that can be ported to cube.
 
One thing I've noticed in historical formats is that mana fixing is often front-loaded - many blocks have two or three cycles of fixing in pack one, and only one in packs two and three. If you wanted to do this a possible distribution for a 360 card cube could be duals and shocks in pack one, fetches in pack two, Worldwake manlands and five-color lands in pack three.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, that's an interesting point. The current RTR full block draft is very front-loaded on fixing, and it creates an interesting dynamic. Do I take these powerful cards now, or take fixing to give myself better freedom to take powerful cards later?
 
It seems like it would be worth figuring out what qualities make a card work better in a certain pack. Some thoughts:

  • Dependence on other cards - Stuff like Natural Order and Reveillark I find most interesting in pack 2, where you have some idea of whether you'll be able to support them, but still have time to pick up cards to make them good.
  • Audibility - If your first couple packs didn't go quite how you were expecting, it's nice to have the option to shift gears in pack 3 - have some Ponza cards for the monored drafter who couldn't get a critical mass of cheap dudes, or some tap-out cards for the control deck without enough permission.
  • Color Intensiveness - If you put fixing on the mantle in pack 1, it should go off in pack 3. Multicolor and triple-color spells are good rewards for drafters who have their manabases in order.
  • Signalling - This ties into the "archetype anchors in pack 1" idea: The same cards that help you figure out what deck you're drafting can help you figure out what deck others aren't.
  • Quality vs. Quantity - One possible trick is to have a pack that has fewer of a certain type of card, but higher quality cards of that type. Do you take that Day of Judgement in pack 2 knowing that pack 3 is lousy with five- and six-mana wraths? Do you take Keiga, the Tide Star or do you hold out for Consecrated Sphinx, knowing that there won't be many more opportunities to pick up finishers?
 
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