General Ixlan Spoiler

This is a disperse variant I'm really digging. One of the worst feeling spots is hitting a low drop, it just feels so low impact. Adding in the Scry 2 really helps offset that tempo self-hit. Nice!
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The only thing is opponent's only? Not sure it's a truly meaningful downside 99% of the time
 
Definitely seems worse than Into the Roil. Not being able to protect your own stuff is kinda huge, and I feel like hitting things that are CMC 2 or less isn't exactly what I'm looking to do with 2 mana bounce effects so I imagine the reward will not be garnered too much. Obviously it will happen, but paying extra to draw the card and hitting your own stuff seems better than what probably won't be a clause that will trigger consistently.
 
I was thinking more from an early game and tempo perspective. Control decks want to survive early aggression, Into the Roil is not great for that because it's pure card disadvantage. Tacking on scry 2 almost ensures you get the smooth draw you need to reach mid/late game. In that context, it's a lot better IMO. And for a tempo deck looking to get an early board lead. Say into a standstill or something (or opposition deck, etc), that scry 2 is going to be really good and exactly what you want.

Into the Roil is a great card no doubt. Better in more situations I think and clearly superior later in the game. It's the more generically powerful card. But Perilous Journey might be stronger in specific archetypes. So that should be a consideration depending on what you are trying to push in your cube. I really like cards like this since you are rewarded for drafting them in specific decks but not overly punished if you use it as filler.
 
I think they serve slightly different roles and deck builds. Better at different points in the game, as you say, ahadabans. Digging down up to three cards is very gassy for a more tempo deck that doesn't want to sit back and slow the game as much, but still needs to keep the gas coming. This deck style will more likely be interacting earlier in the game as well, to remove blockers and whatnot, so the 2CMC upside gains slightly more stock. Reminds me of Magma Jet a little, tbh.

This definitely shouldn't be swapped in for Into the Roil, that's fairly trivial to agree on. Think it can serve another purpose well.

EDIT: Ahadabans was thinking the same, and beat me to it!
 
Into the Roil is still a good card there too even without the scry, it's not as great but you're Time Walking your opponent and that's super valuable. This is especially so when you have better answers later.

Roil is just a more useful card outside of that specific scenario, and I don't know how many Roil variants I want. I like Repeal better than this as well. My line of thought is that I don't feel I'm lacking or wanting another of those effects, so I'd rather run cards that play in multiple archetypes vs ones that are better in specific ones, unless the ones that are better are so much better that it can't be ignored, and I don't think this card is. The scry 2 is nice, but I think the restriction is a bit too limiting to sacrifice the kicker and ability to hit your own stuff too. It'll feel pretty bad when I could kick Roil vs something CMC >=3 and I have this instead, or if I would've had an opportunity to protect my own stuff or abuse an ETB trigger, whereas I don't think it feels really that bad at all to Roil something t2 if that's what's necessary/best in that spot, so I don't really see the appeal of the switch. If there was more overall value to Roil'ing something that costs two, like so much that this is actually an appeal, I'd be more all over it, but I'd rather use my Roils in situations where they're spending more mana and my usage of the bounce is more efficient.

Even it hits less, I think I would run Vapor Snag over this. Feels like this will be a shitty disperse too often, or often enough to make it feel kinda bad/plain when there are more consistent options out there.
 
To be fair, I'm most likely not making this swap in my combo list. The power level is high enough there and I have plenty of archetype specific cards already. But if I ever resurrect my midrange list, Perilous Journey will get a very hard look. I like what it does and that it's always card disadvantage. Reminds me a bit of Unsubstantiate. In a meta more focused on incremental advantage, bounce is really powerful and cards like Into the Roil can be OP.
 
I'm thinking penny pincher or just above that. So pretty far below the average rare list. Into the Roil I'm pretty sure is too good there since bouncing something expensive and drawing a card is a massive tempo hit. Reflector Mage for example is utterly broken at that power level.
 
I like the parallel to Unsubstantiate. If I do run it, I'll have this cool bifurcation of Journey + Unsubtantiate, and Roil + Repeal, which seems like a cool split of effects for faster-game and slower-game decks. Nice!

Could also see it in place of Unsubstantiate.
 
2UU makes it pretty reasonable, though. That's not really cheap for that effect. If you're spending 4 mana to do that, it's good but definitely not OP by any means. Looking at Grillo's list, the power level seems higher than you're giving it credit for.

EDIT: In fact, he runs it lol
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Yeah, I run into the roil in the PPC 1.0, but not in PPC 2.0.

PPC 1 has a pretty traditional core structure, with an emphasis on ETBs--largely because I didn't understand fully how ETBs impact game texture when I was building it. Into the roil slots in very comfortably there, and I quite like it as a bounce spell, since you can run it in a more pressure build, but the cantrip effect makes it an excellent bounce varient for control builds. In that sense its a bit like repeal, though perhaps less control focused, and I like having reasonable bounce that can still slant slightly towards either end of blue's spectrum of play. Perilous voyage is much worse at filling that role, though it can, if for some reason you don't want to cantrip, or are singleton and what a redundent copy of a similar effect. Smoothing effects in general I think postively of, so I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting to find a slot for such a card. All in all, however, blue bounce was too strong in that format, though the offending spells were not into the roil.

PPC2 is structured to move away from NWO pressure focused gameplay, so the midrangy ETB creatures are heavily policed, and part of that is making sure that midrange players aren't punished tempo-wise for running out 4-5cc brick creatures that want you to untap. Recast loops on those creatures is a cheap way to exploit the format, so blue bounce is also heavily policed. Thats not to say that into the roil would be unrunnable in that format, rather that the density I'm allowing for those slots has been reduced, and I prefered other bounce spells over it.

Snap, is a pretty busted blue bounce in any format with an emphasis on bouncelands, and if I were going for perfect balance, I could cut that for into the roil. However, that would be really boring.
 
Again, for me it comes down to how much you want a drafter to commit. Into the Roil is not a commitment. It goes in any blue deck and any archetype. Snap does not. It sucks outside tempo but it's great in that strategy. Perilous Journey is more snap than into the roil. And I can see a lot of reasons someone might want to prioritize those sorts of cards over more generic value stuff like into the roil.
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
These are super nerdy and grognady cards to talk about.

Into the roil is interesting because in my experience it really excells as "control bounce" rather than as a tempo bounce, though you can run it in tempo. Bounce is a really strong effect, but one that the attrition focused "control" blue jund style effects get somewhat disadvantaged for running, because trading a card for time isn't really in focus with what they are trying to do. With its higher mana cost, and replacement effect, I've always found into the roil to slot much better into attrition decks, to the point where it eventually moves down tempo blue's pick order, and up attrition blue's pick order. This is the same draw as repeal, which is also somewhat mana intensive, and replaces itself. Its also really important that both of those spells can hit any pernament, which is a big part why you would even consider them in a control shell in the first place, and the cantrip just seals the deal.

The blue tempo decks can run it, but they tend to be super focused on efficiently using their mana each turn, and holding 2 mana up is a real cost, for which they can be punished for. Something like vapor snag (or spell pierce/force spike) slots much better into those decks, I find.

I actually think snap is really undervalued in the cube card hierarchy, though I can understand why. Even though ultimately being a 0 mana spell is big game, and enables some back breaking plays in conjunction with counter disruption, requiring an initial 2 mana to be held up looks really rough when you are pushing mana efficiency every turn, especially if your soft disruption is more spell pierce than mana leak. I still think it plays really well though, and a good player can really engineer blow-outs, and surprise chain disruption, in ways you just can't do with other bounce spells. The other big issue with it is that there is nothing really exciting to do with it in a control shell (unless your format runs bounces, where its sicks), and it also can't hit any pernament, which is so bad, and makes it more narrow though still functional.

Obviously, this is a pick order/game play observation, so I'm ready for contrasting experiences.

When I first saw perilous voyage, the first thing that went through my head was magma jet, and I suspect it will play better in a tempo shell than into the roil, but worse in a control shell, though I'm still not super excited about the card. Not being able to hit your own creatures at all is actually a pretty big deal--play wise--in a blue tempo build, and is a relevent niche play to be able to make, though this obviously depends on how good at mtg your players are. This and costing 2 mana is actually a pretty big disadvantage when compared with vapor snag, but the scry is really sweet for those decks. I feel like it might dilute too much from those decks' plan for winning the game, but casual cube groups will probably care too little, and enjoy the scry more.

Being able to hit any pernament means it passes step 1 for an attrition build, but scry 2 is much worse for those decks than draw a card, and the cheaper mana cost isn't something they really care too much about. Though again, doubt that a casual cube group is really going to notice/care about the difference.

Probably the biggest problem with the card is that there are so many excellent alternatives, that it may be pushed out a slot, despite being servicable. This does seem to be the type of stapled on effect that players like/appreciate, so I wouldn't be too quick to turn it down.
 
Good analysis, and can probably be molded with the general feel of a specific environment's long- and short-game decks. I'm still not certain that I'll end up running this, but I think it'd have a very strong chance of testing well. I don't think I've ever seen a bounce spell used on someone's own permanent in my cube.

Also, this has exceedingle high value against tokens, specifically embalm and eternalize effects. That's a huge tempo swing and a scry two on top of that! Tokens are always one reason to temper blue bounce suites
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Sooo... the red one does not disappoint!

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It absolutely disappoints, only a select few decks are going to flip this in a select few windows, siege at least has a second mode and it's not breaking any formats. I get that some people have had better experience in cube with siege than I have, so others would be more excited for it, but I don't really want siege #2
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
That back is super good though. Three spells is kinda hard but not impossible, especially when the card itself helps you achieving that goal by giving you a potential extra spell on each of yoyr turns!
 
That back is super good though. Three spells is kinda hard but not impossible, especially when the card itself helps you achieving that goal by giving you a potential extra spell on each of yoyr turns!

I get that, I'm just skeptical how often that'll happen in practice. I think there will be some decks that can do it, but overall this will probably be closer to a worse siege than something you can depend on flipping.

If you just wanted to play the land, though, it would be the dopest card.
 
Three spells is just so many. I can't remember the last time I did that in a non-EDH game. The land side is excellent though, wish the trigger to flip were two spells instead. It would have been much more achievable.
 
I do agree that it's the sort of effect you do have to cultivate your format a little for. Great with Mystic Speculation, for multiple reasons. Some others:



The not being able to play the lands is a major downside.
 
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