Jonas 360 Cube

Heyo. First post here, and I thought I'd share my cube.

http://cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/1209

It supports, at the moment (that I've noticed) white aggro, green aggro, red aggro, black aggro, and the combinations therein. There is also blink deck, ramp, wildfire,blue based control, artifact.dec etc. At the moment I'm thinking about taking out most of the red aggro, and go further towards something like big red and a bit more support for the wildfire deck. That would also leave me some room in my gruul and rakdos sections, for cards like fulminator mage, which I don't feel like I can put in over thehreat aggro cards I have there at the moment.

Any thoughts?
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
I just took a look at your list. Basically Iwas like "Cool, a power cube, haven't seen one of those on here, let's take a look." Anyway you won't get much advice from me because I'm not all that great a designer. But I would say take out Spellheart Chimera, it's not good. I run Nivix Cyclops for pretty much the same role and it's good. Gelectrode is probably even better, but the effect is a bit different. (I love UR, spells-matter decks are s much fun) If you're interested, here' my list: http://cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/1461
You're gunna find most people here are breaking singleton. It really works, and I was pretty late to catch on. Also I seriously wouldn't class Fulminator Mage as a multicolor card, it's kind of the opposite. Anyway I would really not worry about keeping your sections equal numbers. It's good to keep them roughly the same, but I wouldn't worry about having them exact. There really is no point. If your cube is better with a Fulminator Mage, don't worry about the numbers. You'll need to find a cut, but don't limit yourself to RB, hell, cut a blue card if that's what's going to make the cube better.
 
Yeah, the chimera is only there for testing at the moment, though it did perform admirably the time I managed to get it in a deck, being at least 3 power every time. Will post more of a reply when it isn't so late.
 

CML

Contributor
ahhh i've been looking forward to this kind of thread for months.

my advice is that if your cube is a power cube, you should likely seek to maximize power, and should therefore take out the bad cards. (looking at your list it's clear you're proxying power and failing to proxy stuff like elspeth, knight-errant) ... of course it's more complicated than that, and in which ways it's more complicated i'd like to explore, once we address less subtle things like "bad cards"

CUTS

magus of the moat (distasteful if it does work, too)
calciderm
bad gideon
cloudshift
gift of immortality (horrendous card)
enduring renewal (does nothing)

omenspeaker
waterfront bouncer
barrin, master wizard
spell snare (not enough targets in cube)

some of the worse black 1's
blood scrivener (goblin piker)
funeral charm
contagion

brute force
blood lust
empty the warrens

ghazban ogre (heh)
mtenda lion
rogue elephant
harvest wurm
joiner adept
priest of titania
blastoderm
briarhorn
yeva
turntimber ranger
verdeloth
sylvan primordial
krosan grip
bramblecrush

diabolic vision
steam augury

barbed wire (someone found a card worse than jinxed choker!)
mirror universe
akroma's memorial
ornithopter (o boy 0/2's)
phyrexian walker
juggernaut
masticore

thespian's stage

---

use the extra slots on 4 gravecrawlers and some other stuff
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
Chris, wasn't Jinxed Choker one of your zany ideas? I put it in my cube, played it in an aggro deck, and died to it EVERY TIME. And I thought "well, CML likes, I guess I'll hold on to it for a while"
 
Yup, power is proxied to test it out. Besides leading to explosive starts, the most it has done is leading to abused Timewalks in UG decks, so I think it's on its way out again. Expect an update about that in a week or so, I think.

Regarding the bad cards:

White, I agree with you. Magus of the moat was to test a moat effect on a stick, which is a hell of a lot more interesting then on an enchantment. Havent's seen it played though. Cloudshift I kinda like, mostly because its wording, giving it neat interactions with Sower of temptation, and other stealers, and plays very well with the evokers available. Gift of immortality I very much agree on. Enduring renewal is there for combo, but seeing as how there is 450 cards in the cube, it most likely is going away. (Same reason that the walker and ornithopter is in, really.) Gideon is meh, no arguments there. Calciderm and Blastorderm though, what do you have against them?

On blue, Omenspeaker has been good enough for me to not cut it yet, and waterfront bouncer, well, I like that card, and put it in not that long ago, so I will give it a chance to do some work. Barrin has been waiting to be cut for quite a while. (Boy have I had a lot of bad blue cards in here) I agree on the spellsnare, some games it does great, and some games it blows goats. And if you are commenting on bad cards, you are not commenting on the fact that trix is in the cube? :p

Brute force and blood lust makes combat fun, so those are staying in. Empty the warrens has never failed to make less then 4 goblins since I added it a week or two ago, so that is staying in for now as well. Cards in red that are closer to being cut at the moment are the moltensteel dragon, chandra (for koth, once I can be arsed to get him), mogg fanatic, I love the guy but it feels like he just doesn't do enough, and removing wheel of fate again, since I kinda thought in the wrong way when I added it.

In the black section, I'd rather cut the gravecrawlers and add more carnophages, to force the black aggro heavier into sui black. Mostly because that is my favorite deck ever. I haven't actually been able to see the blood scrivener work yet, since he hasn't appeared since I put him in, but I agree that he looks like crap. Funeral charm I like, it is a versatile card, and has actually helped me to 3-0. Contagion is going into the cube, and going out of the cube, and into the cube, I like the card, but no one else that I cube with really pick it, so it is probably going out again.

Priest of Titania has been on its way out for a while, but then again, it seems to always pull its weight when a ramp deck gets it out, so it has stayed in for now. Rogue elephant and harvest wurm came in as a blast from the past, and are soon heading out again. Joiner adept did a lot of work before, but hasn't really been used since I managed to put all the fetches in, so she is on her way out, I agree. On Yeva, turntimber ranger, verdeloth and the sylvan primordial, they are not too amazing, no. Yeva works great in a UG midrange-y deck though, there is that. Briarhorn is in there for the same reason as the brute force and blood lust, I want ways to actually make combat interesting. I am also going to cut a few terror effects, so as to not make it a horrible horrible horrible idea to actually draft the cards. What's the problem with bramblecrush? It pulls its weight in a RG wildfire deck, it helps green with dealing with planeswalkers without going too hard into any other color, and is some extra backup against swords and the like? Or are there just too many of the effects, and that is why you are suggesting krosan grip too?
To further green aggro, would it then be a good idea to cut the other 1-drops, and replace them with wild dogs and E1? Thinking about the fatties, I would probably drop sould of the harvest before verdeloth, since verdeloth is more fun. I like fun!

Diabolic vision is doing its work, but I'm probably replacing it with Lim-Dûl's vault. Evil twin is going to get cut too, probably for a strix or something. Steam augury is a card that divides my playgroup. I have a player that refuses to play it without having even tried it, and when I played it, I used it to win against him, which was pretty fun. I don't think it's a horrible card, and it is getting at least a few more weeks before I take it out, and put izzet charm back in. Or Jhoira of the ghitu and worldfire.

Oh yes, barbed wire sucks. A lot. Here too I have had a lot of other cards to cut before it. Mirror universe is on its way out too, but it was fun while it lasted. I had a lifegain theme in for a couple of weeks, and it was baller in that deck when you assembled all the pieces, but the cards by themselves were about as useful as a bike with square rocks for wheels. Akromas memorial is coming out too. Sometimes someone picks it for a deck and manages to play it, and then it is good, but most often it is a last pick and rots in sideboards. Ornithopter and walker, see what I said about enduring renewal. Even though the walker could potentially be a wall for control decks. Juggernaut got in out or nostalgia, and has evaded being cut a time or two because of nostalgia, but he is on his way out. Masticore is nowhere close to being cut though, the amount of games that machine gun lion has won so far.

Thespian's stage is there as a backup for vampire hexmage, seeing as how dark depths is in among the lands. No reason to have it there if you can't cheat it out, right?

Thanks for having a look! Now, having written this, I think I'm going to remove the power. updating in a bit :p

@Jason I looked at your article, and have though along the same lines. Might have been when I read the article the last time though. I'm going to take a look at my gold sections again, and think about it for a while.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Chris, wasn't Jinxed Choker one of your zany ideas? I put it in my cube, played it in an aggro deck, and died to it EVERY TIME. And I thought "well, CML likes, I guess I'll hold on to it for a while"

Wait, seriously? Am I the only one who's had success with this card?
It's not too hard, you play it with pressure on the table, and watch them drown trying to deal with your dudes AND the constantly rising pressure of the choker.
It's not exactly a card for the aggro mirror guys :p
If you're dying to it, board it out! I've done the same with Bob and vortex many a time :p
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
Wait, seriously? Am I the only one who's had success with this card?
It's not too hard, you play it with pressure on the table, and watch them drown trying to deal with your dudes AND the constantly rising pressure of the choker.
It's not exactly a card for the aggro mirror guys :p
If you're dying to it, board it out! I've done the same with Bob and vortex many a time :p

Yeah I just suck. It wasn't even an aggro mirror. ;):cool::rolleyes::eek::D
 

CML

Contributor
In the black section, I'd rather cut the gravecrawlers and add more carnophages, to force the black aggro heavier into sui black. Mostly because that is my favorite deck ever.


main criticism #1: i suspect your affection for certain cards is f'in up your evaluation of how strong they are. now some of this is inevitable and Cube is a sandboxy casual format but i am also guessing you and your dudes have more fun if you throw out your babies ;)

"Thespian's stage is there as a backup for vampire hexmage, seeing as how dark depths is in among the lands."

main criticism #2: i want to suggest this is bad design, a combo with two otherwise unplayable cards that do not justify themselves in a deck that wants and gets them means those cards are a waste of slots in the Cube. (phrases like "the wildfire deck" also gives me a headache, though it might be less poison-principley here)

other stuff:

-"To further green aggro, would it then be a good idea to cut the other 1-drops, and replace them with wild dogs and E1?" nope, add more fixing (f guild balance who cares, there are a dozen things more important for you to think about as a designer) and revel in the glory of multicolor aggro

-calciderm is a 5/5 for 4 that dies in a few turns, i dunno what's so cool about that when there are a million other White cards that cost 4 and are more interactive / 'power-(cube)-ful'. blastoderm is trying to party like its 1999, but, it isn't 1999"

-yeah, i tried Jinxed Choker because i trusted Cooperfauss's card evaluations, which, given the provenance of this forum, I might have predicted would not work out for me
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
When I had Jinxed Choker in, all my drafters would read three or four lines of its tiny text, decide they didn't want to know any more, and draft something else. It's the first card I've cut because no one could be bothered to read it all the way through.
 
I think red aggro is an important deck in cube drafts for a few reasons. 1) it's an easy yet powerful deck to draft and therefore fun for players unfamiliar with the cube, 2) it keeps control and durdly decks in check, 3) burn is versatile and works well in other decks.

I do think big red could be a fun deck, but I don't think you need as many 5+ drops as you have for it to be a thing. One card you absolutely need and don't have though is Koth of the Hammer. He's awesome in aggro and a cornerstone of big red, where all of his abilities can be relevant.
 
Also Props for the Avatar Jonas
Thanks ;)

Cml, about main criticism 1, I never said that they were better cards, just that I enjoyed them a lot :p

About no2, they are probably on their way out anyway, together with maze of ith, as it will be a bit boring with knight of the reliquary. I'll stop calling it wildfire deck then, and call it red based control, that ok?
Multicolor aggro really hasn't had that big of a problem, but I'll have a look at it. Good points about both the 'derms.

Good points big jim. I have a Koth coming in in a bit, so he'll be added.
I did pull out the power earlier today, and added cards for the blue cards, but left a hole where the moxen and lotus were. Question, would it be a good thing then to remove sol ring, mana vault, mana crypt and grim monolith? Which of the mana rocks would you recommend leaving in?
 
If you cut the moxes I'd cut Sol Ring and Mana Crypt. If you don't run Tezzeret or an artifact theme you could lose more but the rocks are important in that archetype.
 
Without the really deranged ones like sol ring, I will probably cut both Tezzerets too. Seems like I start cutting my way down towards 360 again.
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Wait, seriously? Am I the only one who's had success with this card?
It's not too hard, you play it with pressure on the table, and watch them drown trying to deal with your dudes AND the constantly rising pressure of the choker.
It's not exactly a card for the aggro mirror guys :p
If you're dying to it, board it out! I've done the same with Bob and vortex many a time :p

I've gotten nothing but good feedback on Jinxed Choker. Its an aggressive card that game forward in an interactive fashion. I really like it.
 
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