Kirblinx vs B8R: Non-White Penny Pincher Grid Draft

[Kirblinx]

Prepare to hate MTGO good sir!
Pack 1

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Reckless Charge
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Temple of Malady

Row 2:
1 Rift Bolt
1 Become Immense
1 Quirion Ranger

Row 3:
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Thopter Engineer
1 Utopia Sprawl

Column 1:
1 Reckless Charge
1 Rift Bolt
1 Skeletal Vampire

Column 2:
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Become Immense
1 Thopter Engineer

Column 3:
1 Temple of Malady
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Utopia Sprawl

Pack 2

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Jhessian Thief
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Plaxcaster Frogling

Row 2:
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Skaab Goliath
1 Savra, Queen of the Golgari

Row 3:
1 Moldervine Cloak
1 Trinket Mage
1 Cadaver Imp

Column 1:
1 Jhessian Thief
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Moldervine Cloak

Column 2:
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Skaab Goliath
1 Trinket Mage

Column 3:
1 Plaxcaster Frogling
1 Savra, Queen of the Golgari
1 Cadaver Imp

Pack 3

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Quirion Dryad
1 Mold Shambler
1 Kessig Cagebreakers

Row 2:
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Teetering Peaks
1 Dimir Aqueduct

Row 3:
1 Gush
1 Khalni Garden
1 Temple of Deceit

Column 1:
1 Quirion Dryad
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gush

Column 2:
1 Mold Shambler
1 Teetering Peaks
1 Khalni Garden

Column 3:
1 Kessig Cagebreakers
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Temple of Deceit

Pack 4

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Augur of Skulls
1 Evolving Wilds

Row 2:
1 Spikeshot Elder
1 Dismal Backwater
1 Rewind

Row 3:
1 Juggernaut
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Brimstone Volley

Column 1:
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Spikeshot Elder
1 Juggernaut

Column 2:
1 Augur of Skulls
1 Dismal Backwater
1 Oona's Prowler

Column 3:
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Rewind
1 Brimstone Volley

Pack 5

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Voyager Staff
1 Jeskai Sage
1 Rusted Relic

Row 2:
1 Fangren Marauder
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Dread Statuary

Row 3:
1 Bone Shredder
1 Magus of the Candelabra
1 Ghitu Slinger

Column 1:
1 Voyager Staff
1 Fangren Marauder
1 Bone Shredder

Column 2:
1 Jeskai Sage
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Magus of the Candelabra

Column 3:
1 Rusted Relic
1 Dread Statuary
1 Ghitu Slinger

Pack 6

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Darkblast
1 Unearth

Row 2:
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Cloudfin Raptor

Row 3:
1 Liliana's Specter
1 Dimir Doppelganger
1 Civic Wayfinder

Column 1:
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Liliana's Specter

Column 2:
1 Darkblast
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Dimir Doppelganger

Column 3:
1 Unearth
1 Cloudfin Raptor
1 Civic Wayfinder

Pack 7

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Maul Splicer
1 Sulfurous Blast
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind

Row 2:
1 Wandering Wolf
1 Trading Post
1 Simic Growth Chamber

Row 3:
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Ambush Viper
1 Impulse

Column 1:
1 Maul Splicer
1 Wandering Wolf
1 Simic Growth Chamber

Column 2:
1 Sulfurous Blast
1 Trading Post
1 Ambush Viper

Column 3:
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Impulse

Pack 8

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Krosan Tusker

Row 2:
1 Kiln Fiend
1 Young Wolf
1 Arcane Denial

Row 3:
1 Frantic Search
1 Vital Splicer
1 Mogg War Marshal

Column 1:
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Kiln Fiend
1 Frantic Search

Column 2:
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Young Wolf
1 Vital Splicer

Column 3:
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Arcane Denial
1 Mogg War Marshal

Pack 9

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Snap
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Krenko's Command

Row 2:
1 Death Spark
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Muddle the Mixture

Row 3:
1 Needle Specter
1 Nightmare Void
1 Terrarion

Column 1:
1 Snap
1 Death Spark
1 Needle Specter

Column 2:
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Nightmare Void

Column 3:
1 Krenko's Command
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Terrarion

Pack 10

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Flame Slash
1 Tortured Existence
1 Artificer's Epiphany

Row 2:
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Sylvan Might
1 Gruul Turf

Row 3:
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Stormbind
1 Wing Splicer

Column 1:
1 Flame Slash
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Beetleback Chief

Column 2:
1 Tortured Existence
1 Sylvan Might
1 Stormbind

Column 3:
1 Artificer's Epiphany
1 Gruul Turf
1 Wing Splicer

Pack 11

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Incinerate
1 Deprive
1 Piston Sledge

Row 2:
1 Acolyte of the Inferno
1 Bonesplitter
1 Chromatic Star

Row 3:
1 Feral Invocation
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Compulsive Research

Column 1:
1 Incinerate
1 Acolyte of the Inferno
1 Feral Invocation

Column 2:
1 Deprive
1 Bonesplitter
1 Troll Ascetic

Column 3:
1 Piston Sledge
1 Chromatic Star
1 Compulsive Research

Pack 12

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Mistfire Adept
1 Spike Feeder
1 Assault Strobe

Row 2:
1 Psychatog
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Devour Flesh

Row 3:
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Staggershock

Column 1:
1 Mistfire Adept
1 Psychatog
1 Mogg War Marshal

Column 2:
1 Spike Feeder
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Mystical Teachings

Column 3:
1 Assault Strobe
1 Devour Flesh
1 Staggershock

Pack 13

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Buried Ruin
1 Goblin Glory Chaser
1 Expedition Map

Row 2:
1 Necrogenesis
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Miscalculation

Row 3:
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Krosan Restorer
1 Exhume

Column 1:
1 Buried Ruin
1 Necrogenesis
1 Thrashing Wumpus

Column 2:
1 Goblin Glory Chaser
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Krosan Restorer

Column 3:
1 Expedition Map
1 Miscalculation
1 Exhume

Pack 14

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Starstorm
1 Hooting Mandrills
1 Savage Twister

Row 2:
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Regress
1 Volt Charge

Row 3:
1 Longshot Squad
1 Keldon Vandals
1 Deep Analysis

Column 1:
1 Starstorm
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Longshot Squad

Column 2:
1 Hooting Mandrills
1 Regress
1 Keldon Vandals

Column 3:
1 Savage Twister
1 Volt Charge
1 Deep Analysis

Pack 15

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Temple of Malice
1 Aether Spellbomb

Row 2:
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Warren Weirding

Row 3:
1 Golgari Brownscale
1 Lorescale Coatl
1 Briarhorn

Column 1:
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Golgari Brownscale

Column 2:
1 Temple of Malice
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Lorescale Coatl

Column 3:
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Warren Weirding
1 Briarhorn

Pack 16

Spoiler

Row 1:
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Somnophore
1 Foundry of the Consuls

Row 2:
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Tuskguard Captain

Row 3:
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Stingscourger

Column 1:
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Rolling Thunder

Column 2:
1 Somnophore
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Scryb Ranger

Column 3:
1 Foundry of the Consuls
1 Tuskguard Captain
1 Stingscourger

 

[B8R]

That was fun, thanks for the drubbing!

 

[Kirblinx]

Let me introduce you to my little friend Token AgGRO

It seemed strange that I ended up mainly in red when B8R first picked and got the only two cards out of that pack. Fof the fist packs I was thinking of a big mana deck. I even went so far to pick Artisan of Kozilek. I think I realised that B8R was getting all the removal and I needed to change gameplan so in pack 8 I went with the bottom row instead of the top row to solidify this plan.

Game 1:
I open up with this hand:

I sat at it for a while and just thought, ah it is only the first game, surely I can risk it.
Don't do it. Never risk that one lander. It took me three turns to find my next land (mountain) then another two turns after that to find my next land (Temple of Epiphany). All the while I got beaten down by the 'value three-drop' team of: Civic Wayfinder, Phyrexian Rager, Bone Shredder, Cadaver Imp and Golgari Brownscale.

Game 2:
This time B8R stumbles on his land. He misses his third land drop and all he had was two forests. The first thing I drop is a Wing Splicer. B8R gets another forest and can drop his Civic Wayfinder to help his troubles. My next turn I activate my Dread Statuary and swing in. Get a message from B8R saying that MTGO isn't working as he can't block. Little did he know that Golem tribal is a thing! So he takes 7 in the air and is on a tight clock. He drops an irrelevant ground creature and I hit in for 7 in the air again. He then gets a Liliana's Specter to stop my air assault. I just swing with the golem, he chumps. I drop Stormbind and end the turn. He can't answer the stormbind so next turn untap, and throw 3 cards to his head to finish him off.

Game 3:
Now this was a game. We both started by dropping creatures on turn 3. Then on turn 4 I dropped Vital Splicer into a turn 5 Wing Splicer. This allows me to start swinging in the air since the ground is clogged up with his value three drops. We keep adding creatures to the board and I keep swinging over the top until a Skeletal Vampire appears. This halts my progress and I need to figure out a way to deal with these bats. I draw a Briarhorn and just decide to swing in with everything (except the splicers) and see what happens. I lose some goblins and make sure his Dimir Doppelganger dies. B8R has turn and he decides to drop this:

:eek: Oh god, this isn't good.

So now I am going to have significant trouble. I take my turn and Stingscourger the Zulaport Cutthroat and swing with everything. I wait 20 seconds... And B8R concedes!
I was sure I was going to lose that game. I do not think I could get past the bats and lifegain unless I drew my bushwhacker. If someone wants to do the math on that be my guest. I wasn't going to, and neither did B8R by the looks of it

Game 4:
We went one more, because why not? This time my deck actually had an aggro draw, well sort of. I went Mogg War Marshal -> Acolyte of the Inferno -> Beetleback Chief. He went Zulaport Cutthroat -> Phyrexian Rager(Chump Acolyte of the Inferno) -> Civic Wayfinder. I then Volt Charge his Wayfinder and beat in with the team down to 11. Then drop a Nettle Sentinel and Goblin Glory Chaser after combat. He drops a Kessig Cagebreakers and passes. I swing with the team again. The Cagebreakers trade with the Acolyte and he goes down to 3. I still have 7 creatures on the board and he only has a cutthroat, he untaps and concedes.

So I won 3-1. It was mainly a MTGO learning experience more than anything. B8R did pretty good for his first time round. It really is a non-intuitive program. But hey, it looks in streams and screenshots!

 

[RavebornMuse]

Fantastic write-up, Kirblinx! Next time you'll need to stream - I might've been able to catch it

Not much to add since the write-up was very good other than:
- I love the splicers and wish they were power-level appropriate for my format; also, the Dread Statuary interaction is so cool and I never noticed it before!
- Krosan Restorer is such a great card and I really wish I could run it also
- Skeletal Vampire looks really hilariously rad

I really love seeing these posts, though! It's so cool to see other folk's formats in action, and I think it adds a significant amount of value to card evaluation to see how others are actually using their cards in a real-game setting. For example, in the dom vs safra match-up, I got to see how busted Mystic Confluence truly is and how great Pernicious Deed can be, as well as how Painful Truths, despite my disdain for it initially, is actually super cool. I don't mean to make this post about safra's cube but mostly to underscore how valuable I think this is to have this MTGO draft thing going, both as a really fun idea and as a great workshop for ideas. Keep 'em coming, I say!

 

[Kirblinx]

Fantastic write-up, Kirblinx! Next time you'll need to stream - I might've been able to catch it

Thanks for the compliment! I mentioned in another thread that I currently don't feel like I can stream optimally, so I won't bother until I can. This should hopefully be sooner rather than later.

- I love the splicers and wish they were power-level appropriate for my format; also, the Dread Statuary interaction is so cool and I never noticed it before!
- Krosan Restorer is such a great card and I really wish I could run it also
- Skeletal Vampire looks really hilariously rad

Grillo popped in and said he had never seen a splicer deck like mine before. Well, we were running the non-white draft, so all the good splicers were gone, so I made do with the synergies I could get my hands on.
Restorer has been mediocre when I have seen it in action so far. I long for the day when it goes off with a Rolling Thunder with three bouncelands. At this point in time all I have seen it do is untap a bounceland once.
The Vampire is one of the legitimate bombs in the format I believe. I would have loved to have drawn it against Grillo in the Non-Green draft (I mean we had three games and I drew half my library in two of those games and still never saw it). I will forever hate draft it if I am not in black from now on

I really love seeing these posts, though! It's so cool to see other folk's formats in action, and I think it adds a significant amount of value to card evaluation to see how others are actually using their cards in a real-game setting. For example, in the dom vs safra match-up, I got to see how busted Mystic Confluence truly is and how great Pernicious Deed can be, as well as how Painful Truths, despite my disdain for it initially, is actually super cool. I don't mean to make this post about safra's cube but mostly to underscore how valuable I think this is to have this MTGO draft thing going, both as a really fun idea and as a great workshop for ideas. Keep 'em coming, I say!

Yeah, I know where you are coming from. It is easy to talk about Safra's games because you saw them and the interaction. It is hard to do that with any of these as you are seeing it from my point of view, not your own. Everyone has their own tastes and fixate on some moments more than others.

This is more my style of cubing. I am not a designer. I can't go through all these deep theoretical discussions to come up with great ideas. I am a practical man. I learn what works and what doesn't by playing. There are some cards here I didn't know the purpose of until I saw them in action. I also now understand Grillo's appreciation of Goblin Bushwhacker. I mean, I have always liked the guy and thought he was great, but playing this deck, I LOVED the guy. After the draft I looked to see if I missed the other one in the grids.

I'll keep pumping these out when I get the chance. Grillo also seems really keen. He has appeared in every Penny Pincher draft so far just to observe and make some quips. I'm having a great time and I'm glad that others are getting something out of it as well.

 

[B8R]

Golgari Grindfest

So, being my maiden voyage on the turbulent seas of MTGO, I didn't have the presence of mind to save a screenshot of my deck. Alas! I have recreated it here, for you to ridicule!

My experience with the Penny cube consisted of 4 practice drafts on cube tutor and 15 minutes of browsing the visual spoiler, so my knowledge of all the cards and archetypes was very minimal. Some of my choices on the grid were probably unusual, but I was just trying to draft something I knew (for instance: I had no idea how to draft a ramp strategy and didn't know what a GR beatdown deck was supposed to look like, etc.).

The splicer lord + golem land beats WRECKED me--I didn't know what those cards did! And I thought I was just doing something wrong on MTGO when I couldn't block....oops.

Overall I liked my deck, but I wish that I could have had 2 less 3-drops, it was a bit clunky trying to keep up in tempo on the board only casting 3's once a turn. I also was wishing I had grabbed the Darkblast (instead of Wayfinder/Specter/Doppelganger) in the draft to stave off the early beats and fuel my dredge game, which needed more action.

Cards that impressed me in the match:
Mogg War Marshal (unexciting but did a lot of work)
Civic Wayfinder (same, though I wish it was a 2-drop!)
Skeletal Vampire (my first pick in the draft for a reason!)
Stormbind (cool/powerful card that reminds me of my childhood opening worthless Ice Age boosters)
Zulaport Cutthroat (duh)

Also Kirblinx's strategy surprised me in general. I had a (vague) notion that the splicers were a UW strategy and that goblin token Aggro was usually a BR thing, so him combining those elements into a RGu deck was pretty baller!

Notes on games:
1) non-game as he's stuck on 1 land while I just curve (flat?) out with infinity 3-drops
2) I mull a 1-lander into a 5 land + Skeletal Vamp 6-card hand and then mull I into a playable 5, then he goes Golem-gaga all over me.
3) this epic groundstall game was interesting. From the point of Kirblinx's screen shot, I have surmised the following:

First of all, when he bounces with his Stingscourger on his turn, I was unsure of what he was targeting. With the bounce on the stack I sac a bat to make 2 more bats in fear of him bouncing the Skeletal Vampire. I was unsure if I would get another chance to do this if I just clicked okay, but with more MTGO familiarity I bet there was a way for me to keep my sac trigger for after blocks were declared. So in this scenario after he sends his whole team in I basically chump the 3-power dudes (and viper) with bats and line up my other blocks favorably, leaving this:

Me: Wayfinder, Brownscale, Restorer, Skeletal Vamp, 2 bats (fresh ones made after blocks)
Him: Mogg, Jhessian, Briarhorn, Lorescale, Golem, 2 goblins, and a Stingscourger
...and I'm at 2 life.
I untap and draw and drop Zulaport with 9 mana (to activate bat factory once). At this point Grillio maintained that I could have won with bat production + cutthroat draining, and indeed that does seem to be a possibility.

Overall I have to give major props to Kirblinx for guiding me through the draft process very patiently and also allowing me to fumble through MTGO for the first time! Arigato!

When's the rematch?! ;-)

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

For a first draft I would say thats pretty reasonable, with most of your stumbles just coming from being new to the format. You're right its too three drop heavy, though there are some matchups where you an get away with that. The problem is when you find yourself in a situation where you are falling behind, and need to sequence out 2-3 cards to return to parity. Since his deck was aggressive in nature, you found yourself in that situation pretty quickly.

A few thoughts:

1. The biggest mistake that people new to the format make is running the draft standard 17 lands. If you are an aggressive deck, you probably want to be maximizing your top decks with 15 lands; if you are not an aggressive deck, you are running bouncelands, which let you run lower land totals. You just have to be careful not to build yourself into a corner where you die to acidic slim or petravark. If you look at my deck here, despite running a nine drop, I am running 15 lands. Granted, this is partly because I have peregrine drake and snap in the list to ramp with (in conjunction with the bouncelands), but its mostly because I have those three boucelands in the list.

15-16 I think should be the norm, with some decks shooting for 14-15. Some strategies naturally want higher land counts, and some can try to really push the greed line.

2. Off-color lands can also be really good. So stuff like running a temple of deceit in a UG deck, for example, or izzet boilerworks in a UB deck. You can sort of create your own preordains by bouncing and replaying scry lands, which is incredibly powerful, and some decks (especially untap ramp decks) are just bounceland hungry.

3. Cards like mogg war marshal, civic wayfinder, or phyrexian rager are all very powerful role players, because they are card neutral. If civic wayfinder trades for a removal spell or with another creature, its card advantage for you, and you can toss it away for sacrifice interactions or as a speed bump without worry. That makes those types of cards very good for buying time, as well as drowning an opposing deck in incremental card advantage.

This is the same idea behind the engine that powers the Kor skyfisher, ichor wellspring/prophetic prism decks in pauper. It makes it where interacting with their threats is card disadvantage in itself, so you can find yourself in this quagmire (if you don't understand whats going on) where your acts of trying to get ahead are causing you to constantly fall behind.

4. Darkblast is a premium pick, one of the best pieces of removal, and an engine for those graveyard decks.

5. With the way that MODO works, when Stingscourger hits the battlefield, its triggered ability will go onto the stack, and he will have to pick a target. Priority will than pass to you, and you can see what he is targeting either visually by mousing over the ability on the stack, or by looking at the game log.

 

[B8R]

Grillo your point #1 is interesting and makes sense. I was thinking about recent standard where the temples made it so you could run a HIGHER land count because you could mitigate flood with the scry. I can see how the bouncelands change the equation though. I was also playing it safe to start off with.

I considered your point #2 during deckbuilding but in my newness and haste I just left it alone. Bouncing scry lands for value does seem sweet!

Thanks for the pointer on #5, I figured I was missing something.