You know, I was going to say at one point that the “explore deck” is as simple as throwing all of the reasonable explore cards for a given power band into the Cube. However after watching one of Jim Davis’ Ten New Brews for this set which was essentially Gruul explore, I think there might actually be a little bit more going on around explore itself which makes the “deck” a little bit more appealing. I’ll probably write about it at some point (when I have time), but I don’t think a potential “explore deck” is actually an archetype based around the explore keyword and rather all of the cool synergies that you can have with explore cards.
General (LCI, REX, LCC) Lost Caverns of Ixalan and Jurassic Park Testing/Includes Thread Mega Dino Danger Edition
- Thread starter TrainmasterGT
- Start date
Huh, nice video! Think I might've written off explore too early, and now we have a ton of explore cards so it's easy to get a nice density of the keyword.
Color me unsurprised — after all, Explore is basically Surveil 1 with some pretty large upsides.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Explore plays really well! Dom was even talking on Dominaria's judgement that maps are basically the perfect trinket, mostly owing to how a bit of uncertainty about the value of a map goes a long way.
Clues you're just always choked on mana, treasure you're choked on cards, blood is just a bit too clinical, food does jack all unless you REALLY need it, etc.
All those work well in reasonable numbers, but if you're gonna build a cube where one trinket is at retail limited density, I think maps have a lot going for them.
That all is to say: If you had to pick one trinket, maps are a good one to pick. But you don't, do you?
Clues you're just always choked on mana, treasure you're choked on cards, blood is just a bit too clinical, food does jack all unless you REALLY need it, etc.
All those work well in reasonable numbers, but if you're gonna build a cube where one trinket is at retail limited density, I think maps have a lot going for them.
That all is to say: If you had to pick one trinket, maps are a good one to pick. But you don't, do you?
I much prefer Maps to Clues (from a gameplay POV), and they play so so well. I had a great time at pre-release this weekend and felt very validated by my picks for the set, including my desire to go hard into Explore/Maps, which I had been a little skeptical about since it's a very robust mechanic in terms of word count. It just plays well (something I did not feel during OG Ixalan), so as long as a potential explorer has someone within earshot of them who's played with the mechanic, judging from the newbies at the game store I visited, they'll get it right away.
I will say that I've noticed a similar pattern with other mechanics, like backup. They read rather strangely but as soon as you're at the table and you play with the card you get it immediately.
I definitely agree. The entire first Ixalan block only had 16 cards that explore and 3 cards that care about when you explore. Most of those cards were bad draft chaff cards, such as Brazen Buccaneer and Queen's Agent. If you wanted to use explore in a Cube, your only real options were Merfolk Branchwalker, Jadelight Ranger, Path of Discovery, and maybe Seeker's Squire, none of which are amazing.
Since then, we've gotten 35 additional explore cards, 27 of which come from Lost Caverns of Ixalan proper. The vast majority of these cards fall somewhere between "interesting fringe card" to "actively great playable." As such, there are more options for people who wish to use the explore mechanic than there were previously.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Apparently the feedback from various random LPR listener prereleases is that Jadelight Spelunker is waaaaaay sweeter than it appears
From some testing, Fanatical Offering is absolute gas.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Do you think you like this more than Deadly Dispute? I mean not for Capitalism cube, obv.
I think Fanatical Offering is more powerful than Deadly Dispute because I think Maps are a lot stronger than Treasures.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
#doubt
I think mana acceleration is a lot stronger than a ~40% chance of drawing a card and a ~60% chance of putting a +1/+1 counter somewhere.
(edited quote for clarity)
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Well you also get the surveil 1. Kind of a big thing to leave out I would say.
I think Map tokens have more cross archetype synergy potential, but I believe that Treasures are stronger. Lotus Petal can be a legit card in some cubes and getting an incidental one is huge. Be it ramping out a big spell or double spelling earlier can often put you in a winning position.
That’s not to say I think that Maps are bad, just not as universally good as Treasures (plus there are cases where you have no creature and your Map is useless, which has to count a little).
That’s not to say I think that Maps are bad, just not as universally good as Treasures (plus there are cases where you have no creature and your Map is useless, which has to count a little).
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Oh hey looks like context matters 
Certain:
Malcolm, Alluring Scoundrel: I've been looking for a replacement for Looter il-kor. Not as elegant as I'd like, but an upgrade nonetheless.
Bitter Triumph: Just a great piece of removal.
Inti, Seneschal of the Sun: This will free up a slot in red by replacing both Bloodrage Brawler andConspiracy Theorist. Inti approximate the roles of both while being more generally useful. Slam dunk.
Near Certain:
Stalactite Stalker: Really enjoy that this triggers off sacrifice and self-mill. Aristocrats and dredge are permanent heavy archetypes so I expect this to be pretty solid.
Cenote Scout: I've been looking for a green one drop for dredge with early game relevance. I've never loved Nimble Mongoose or Gnarlwood Dryad for my cube. I think this will be a solid roleplayer with some utility in other archetypes.
Spyglass Siren: Similar thought on Siren as the Scout. I've wanted a flexible 1 drop in blue, and a blue Thraben Inspector is about all I could ask for.
Sentinel of the Nameless City: Strong card. Only thing making me less than certain is whether I want the overlap with Tireless Tracker
Uncertain but Interested:
Dusk Rose Reliquary: I'm not sold on this over Portable Hole yet. I wish Reliquary would've allowed you to sac a land as well...that would've been huge. As is, I'm just a little unsure about how this will feel sequencing-wise. I'll give it a test.
Jadelight Spelunker: Seems like a solid card that presents some fun decisions. I tend to veer away from most X costed creatures since they can't blinked or reanimated. I think this will be a good option for a lot of people, but I'm hesitant to include for now.
Deep-Cavern Bat: Nice upgrade on Kitesail Freebooter. I'm pretty content with Frogkin Kidnapper for it's ability to be abused.
Helping Hand: The tempo of 1cmc on this type of effect is very nice compared to Recommission, but I've come to appreciate the utility of Recommission quite a bit. In white artifact decks it recurs Hangarback Walker and Walking Ballista, or a nuked Skullclamp or Nettlecyst...Recommission and Sevinne's Reclamation are important pieces for self-mill strategies that overlap with white...being able to recur a Mesmeric Orb or Thassa's Oracle. That said, those are all pretty corner case, and I see an easy argument for Helping Hand over Recommission. Something I need to think on more.
Broadside Bombardiers: This thing hits like a truck. Such a cool card. There's been a few cards printed in the last couple of years than help incorporate sacrifice into aggro shells. I've steered away from them for now as Red aggro in my cube is already paired with artifact and discard themes, and I don't feel like I need to muddy the waters with a third. This card to be interesting enough to change my mind, but I'm going to hold off for now.
Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon: I don't typically like Rabblemaster variants, but Boros' guild section is one of the weakest. The tokens being artifacts is pretty huge.
Trumpting Carnosaur: I love that they revamped cascade to work with sneak, cheat, and blink strategies. This is a maybe for me. It's just hard to make space for creatures >5cmc.
Interested but Doubtful:
Volatile Wanderglyph: A card that would've perfectly slotted into earlier iterations of my cube. Doesn't quite hit the power threshold these days. Such a great card tho.
Pit of Offerings: The utility land section is very competitive. Similar to Wanderglyph, this would've been a snap include when my cube was lower power.
Bloodthorn Flail: Similar to the above two cards. I'd rock this at a lower power level.
Tarrian's Journal: Super interesting card...just not sure if the value pays off quickly enough for this to make sense for my cube.
Akal Pakal, First Among Equals: There's a lot of artifact super in blue these days, and I don't think this cuts it
The Ancient One: 8 permanents is a big ask with graveyard hate flying around
Dino DNA: Sorcery speed is such a bummer on an otherwise sweet card. Takes it from great to pretty unplayable.
Contest of Claws: I keep trying to play these types of green cards and they never stick. This is one of the better options, but sorcery speed
Malcolm, Alluring Scoundrel: I've been looking for a replacement for Looter il-kor. Not as elegant as I'd like, but an upgrade nonetheless.
Bitter Triumph: Just a great piece of removal.
Inti, Seneschal of the Sun: This will free up a slot in red by replacing both Bloodrage Brawler andConspiracy Theorist. Inti approximate the roles of both while being more generally useful. Slam dunk.
Near Certain:
Stalactite Stalker: Really enjoy that this triggers off sacrifice and self-mill. Aristocrats and dredge are permanent heavy archetypes so I expect this to be pretty solid.
Cenote Scout: I've been looking for a green one drop for dredge with early game relevance. I've never loved Nimble Mongoose or Gnarlwood Dryad for my cube. I think this will be a solid roleplayer with some utility in other archetypes.
Spyglass Siren: Similar thought on Siren as the Scout. I've wanted a flexible 1 drop in blue, and a blue Thraben Inspector is about all I could ask for.
Sentinel of the Nameless City: Strong card. Only thing making me less than certain is whether I want the overlap with Tireless Tracker
Uncertain but Interested:
Dusk Rose Reliquary: I'm not sold on this over Portable Hole yet. I wish Reliquary would've allowed you to sac a land as well...that would've been huge. As is, I'm just a little unsure about how this will feel sequencing-wise. I'll give it a test.
Jadelight Spelunker: Seems like a solid card that presents some fun decisions. I tend to veer away from most X costed creatures since they can't blinked or reanimated. I think this will be a good option for a lot of people, but I'm hesitant to include for now.
Deep-Cavern Bat: Nice upgrade on Kitesail Freebooter. I'm pretty content with Frogkin Kidnapper for it's ability to be abused.
Helping Hand: The tempo of 1cmc on this type of effect is very nice compared to Recommission, but I've come to appreciate the utility of Recommission quite a bit. In white artifact decks it recurs Hangarback Walker and Walking Ballista, or a nuked Skullclamp or Nettlecyst...Recommission and Sevinne's Reclamation are important pieces for self-mill strategies that overlap with white...being able to recur a Mesmeric Orb or Thassa's Oracle. That said, those are all pretty corner case, and I see an easy argument for Helping Hand over Recommission. Something I need to think on more.
Broadside Bombardiers: This thing hits like a truck. Such a cool card. There's been a few cards printed in the last couple of years than help incorporate sacrifice into aggro shells. I've steered away from them for now as Red aggro in my cube is already paired with artifact and discard themes, and I don't feel like I need to muddy the waters with a third. This card to be interesting enough to change my mind, but I'm going to hold off for now.
Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon: I don't typically like Rabblemaster variants, but Boros' guild section is one of the weakest. The tokens being artifacts is pretty huge.
Trumpting Carnosaur: I love that they revamped cascade to work with sneak, cheat, and blink strategies. This is a maybe for me. It's just hard to make space for creatures >5cmc.
Interested but Doubtful:
Volatile Wanderglyph: A card that would've perfectly slotted into earlier iterations of my cube. Doesn't quite hit the power threshold these days. Such a great card tho.
Pit of Offerings: The utility land section is very competitive. Similar to Wanderglyph, this would've been a snap include when my cube was lower power.
Bloodthorn Flail: Similar to the above two cards. I'd rock this at a lower power level.
Tarrian's Journal: Super interesting card...just not sure if the value pays off quickly enough for this to make sense for my cube.
Akal Pakal, First Among Equals: There's a lot of artifact super in blue these days, and I don't think this cuts it
The Ancient One: 8 permanents is a big ask with graveyard hate flying around
Dino DNA: Sorcery speed is such a bummer on an otherwise sweet card. Takes it from great to pretty unplayable.
Contest of Claws: I keep trying to play these types of green cards and they never stick. This is one of the better options, but sorcery speed
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I just noticed my quote (in your quote hehe)
Any chance you can remember the full contect next time?
When I say ‘I think’ I believe it is important to include. I understand you, me and others have to sometimes cut out things for clarity. But the most important part of the sentence will always be important. To me. Thanks
As much as I would love to have a cube that could run the Kaladesh Invention version of Lotus Petal I cannot imagine a situation where a player would include it in a deck. It is worth so little that it’s hard to justify. The last 10 years that is.
Map however can be a full land card that you can play if you haven’t played any lands this turn. Or it can be a surveil 1 and a +1/+1 counter. That’s the difference between Field of Ruin and Volatile Fault. Obviously the Treasure token is guarenteed mana. But the upside of Map is a lot stronger because it’s mana every turn. The downside is not so much worse than a Treasure (Surveil + counter).
I will admit that the creature requirement and the additional
cost is certainly pulling in favor of Treasure.You all might have convinced me it’s a draw/tie. I like both designs. As do most of you I can see.
In cubes with a combo focus, it would be decent. I know that I've considered it in mine as a complement to Lion's Eye Diamond for the Underworld Breach + Brain Freeze combo.
I could see it making sense as well with some high impact Monarch or Initiative card. A turn 2 White Plume Adventurer or Court of Garenbrig is a beating. Those aren't my jam, but they would warrant going down a card for the acceleration.
I guess those two specific decks would think about considering including a Lotus Petal and one of those decks would have almost no use for a Map token.
I'm not sure this is the right place to post these thought's, but it seemed like the best place, so let me know if it should go somewhere else.
I don't get to play as much Cube (or paper Magic for that matter) as I would like to, so I'm stuck playing Arena limited with its advantages and disadvantages. Since I'm fiddling around a lot with my cube recently I paid closer attention to the new Ixalan cards and found some cards that I wanted to shout out.
Is a card that does not appear to be very popular in this testing thread and initially I didn't have it in my list of potential includes either. Tapping three creatures/artifacts just seems too much / too slow and sorcery speed makes it even less appealing. I think the card is deceptively powerful (maybe not for max power cubes) as it can grow very quickly and can play offense and defense well.
I drafted a mono-white aggressive deck (I could post a deck picture if it's not too off-topic and desired) and the card won me nearly every match when it was in my opening hand. It helps a lot that it plays exceptionally well with vigilance (like Miner's Guidewing), one drops or creatures that generate multiple bodies and artifacts. With the growing interest in trinket tokens (Thraben Inspector, Tough Cookie etc.) this might be an interesting addition. Also, since you are usually the aggressor with a growing one drop you can more aggressively tap your own summoning sick creatures. Especially once the warden hits three counters and hits for four damage with vigilance in the air. The scry is also very strong, as you presumably built an aggressive deck and are happy to bottom lands past 3-4. All in all this card has impressed me (in LCI limited) and is most likely worth a slot in my cube. Maybe its a consideration for your cube too (unless you run tons of removal and love #smallgames).
The other card I wanted to shout out is:
Few people are testing it and I myself am not quite sure where to land on it. I did not play with this card yet but I saw it in two early-access videos.
A few things are going on here. First, it's pretty terrible on an empty board. A 2/2 with a useless artifact for is not good. For my own cube you probably want the creature to be a 4/4 or 5/5 to be serviceable and it still carries the risk of combat trick KO, where they kill another creature/artifact and eat it in combat. The sweet spot might be, if you manage to land it with 4 other artifacts/creatures in play. In a cube with low curves, incidental artifacts and/or tokens this might be reasonable to achieve. What you really want to achive as a player is to cast this and untap the next turn with at least 6 total artifacts/creatures in play as the trigger goes on the stack in your first main phase. You tap 5 things and keep the smithy untapped and then you have 5-6 mana to cast an artifact or creature to get a huge token for free. This sounds a bit like magical chrismasland but I think that in a cube with similar design goals as the one mentioned above it's very doable. The main problem I have with this card is, that it might be a bit feast or famine. Either you don't get to transform it and it's a middling four drop or you transform it too consistently and it becomes very hard to beat. So, I'm a bit undecided but curious to hear more opinions! Why are not more people interested in this card?
edit: awful spelling things
I don't get to play as much Cube (or paper Magic for that matter) as I would like to, so I'm stuck playing Arena limited with its advantages and disadvantages. Since I'm fiddling around a lot with my cube recently I paid closer attention to the new Ixalan cards and found some cards that I wanted to shout out.
Is a card that does not appear to be very popular in this testing thread and initially I didn't have it in my list of potential includes either. Tapping three creatures/artifacts just seems too much / too slow and sorcery speed makes it even less appealing. I think the card is deceptively powerful (maybe not for max power cubes) as it can grow very quickly and can play offense and defense well.
I drafted a mono-white aggressive deck (I could post a deck picture if it's not too off-topic and desired) and the card won me nearly every match when it was in my opening hand. It helps a lot that it plays exceptionally well with vigilance (like Miner's Guidewing), one drops or creatures that generate multiple bodies and artifacts. With the growing interest in trinket tokens (Thraben Inspector, Tough Cookie etc.) this might be an interesting addition. Also, since you are usually the aggressor with a growing one drop you can more aggressively tap your own summoning sick creatures. Especially once the warden hits three counters and hits for four damage with vigilance in the air. The scry is also very strong, as you presumably built an aggressive deck and are happy to bottom lands past 3-4. All in all this card has impressed me (in LCI limited) and is most likely worth a slot in my cube. Maybe its a consideration for your cube too (unless you run tons of removal and love #smallgames)
.The other card I wanted to shout out is:
Few people are testing it and I myself am not quite sure where to land on it. I did not play with this card yet but I saw it in two early-access videos.
A few things are going on here. First, it's pretty terrible on an empty board. A 2/2 with a useless artifact for
is not good. For my own cube you probably want the creature to be a 4/4 or 5/5 to be serviceable and it still carries the risk of combat trick KO, where they kill another creature/artifact and eat it in combat. The sweet spot might be, if you manage to land it with 4 other artifacts/creatures in play. In a cube with low curves, incidental artifacts and/or tokens this might be reasonable to achieve. What you really want to achive as a player is to cast this and untap the next turn with at least 6 total artifacts/creatures in play as the trigger goes on the stack in your first main phase. You tap 5 things and keep the smithy untapped and then you have 5-6 mana to cast an artifact or creature to get a huge token for free. This sounds a bit like magical chrismasland but I think that in a cube with similar design goals as the one mentioned above it's very doable. The main problem I have with this card is, that it might be a bit feast or famine. Either you don't get to transform it and it's a middling four drop or you transform it too consistently and it becomes very hard to beat. So, I'm a bit undecided but curious to hear more opinions! Why are not more people interested in this card?edit: awful spelling things
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The other card I wanted to shout out is:
I was thinking about the Smithy, but I think I like Digsite Engineer more. It's less feast or famine and the baseline of 3/3 for 3 is serviceable. Spending mana to get your tokens isn't ideal, but if they are 3/3 or bigger, it's still a good deal! Plus it isn't a DFC.
The Engineer requires you to have a lot of actual artifacts to cast though, whereas this works with good old creatures.