General MODO Cube Redesign

Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
I was surprised that no one wants to talk about the latest updates to the Legacy Cube™. So I thought I would necro this thread to see what others think of the changes.
They were posted here but I will give you a breakdown of what they changed to save you giving the mothership another page visit.
  • Blue was the strongest colour. To fix this cut some two mana counterspells (Mana Leak, really?), Vedalken Shackles and Dig Through Time (yet they added Mystic Confluence?).
  • Black is doing alright with devotion and reanimator strategies
  • BUT aristocrats is a sweet archetype (duh?), so we'll cut several reanimation spells so you can have Blood Artist and Zulaport Cutthroat
  • Realised green sucked, decided to cut (nearly) all mana rocks to give green an identity
  • Also cut the green reanimation support because it sucks (Who thought Llanowar Mentor was a good idea anyway?)
It is pretty much a thumbs up from me for all the changes, especially the mana rock cut. The only colour section that seems like bad swaps is the blue section. Cutting Condescend and Mana Leak is quite sad. Also the stuff they are adding is all over the place, I mean Coralhelm Commander has been in and out of this cube like a dodgy key. Part the Waterveil seems pretty trashy and Mystic Confluenceis pretty busted. I'll be happy to give it a spin. This is probably my favourite cube of theirs.

Now to end on a direct quote from the article just for some told you so's...
Many of you may remember the failed experiment that was the Vampire theme. While I’m glad it was tried, I’m also glad that the cube design team quickly realized that it was not the way to go with black.
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Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I forgot what topic we discussed these updates in, apparently not the right one, but I'm certain we did discuss them! The changes pretty much got the thumbs up from everyone here.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Kirblinx said:
  • Realised green sucked, decided to cut (nearly) all mana rocks to give green an identity
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It's interesting. I've heard this argument many times, and it really bothers me for some reason. It just feels so untrue. Rant incoming...

Why Green doesn't actually suck

For one, T1 elf into T2 3 drop is so much more powerful IMO than T2 rock into T3 4 drop. YMMV on that to be fair, but it just feels like something you can build around in a variety of ways - aggro/tempo or control. T2 rock is almost entirely relegated to control strategies, which is fine but it's just so much more narrow. You can go Birds/Elves of Deep Shadow into T2 hippie and have a really scary and fast aggro style deck that isn't reliant on 2 power 1 drops. No other color can do this sort of thing.

Secondly, green has a ton of cool effects that aren't relegated to just ramp. Some of which have sort of fallen by the wayside for reasons unknown to me. Like, when did overrun drop off lists? It fits so well with creature based strategies which is so green it hurts. You can find plenty of posts and articles from 5+ years back where this effect is highly praised and identified as one of the most important things green has to offer. I get power creep has changed cube and all that, but somewhere along the road someone threw the baby out with the bath water on that one and people just forgot overrun effects are the shit.

Regrowth effects are numerous and really strong in singleton environments, and that's green's bread and butter (there are at least 3 really strong cards in this vein, and even more if you want to dig deeper). The funny thing too is that this effect just gets better with power creep because reusing your strongest cards is a ridiculously powerful play in limited. It doesn't even need to be a broken card either (so this really applies at a wide range of power levels). Sometimes triggering Skriekmaw more than once is simply game winning. Or double blade splicer or double whatever your the game state requires. It's not nearly as conditional as it might look. In fact, it's rare when getting a second use out of a card you played isn't worth way more than a card and 2 mana.

Green also has toolbox options that no other color has access to (Fauna Shaman, Green Sun's Zenith, Birthing Pod, etc.), as well as the best enchantment/artifact removal options and maybe the best land destruction options as well. Seriously, unless you specifically have found the effect too powerful or just don't want to encourage this line of play (and I'd understand), Mwonvuli Acid-Moss is an absurd card in a ramp deck. There's no way anyone is cutting that for not doing enough. You can probably still run it in 450 power max lists and have it feel at home.

Now, if you want to talk about a color with identity and (under)power issues, IMO that's white. Like, what the hell is that color supposed to be good at exactly?
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
I miss the legendary cube already. Who the hell allows someone to assemble this horrendous beast of unfun:
o4YfKr5.png


I did lose in the final though, to mana screw then Thespian's Stage + Dark Depths Combo.
But geez, if this deck didn't lose to itself nothing could beat it.

This isn't just Super friends, more like Super-Duper-Ultra-Happy-Mega Friends if you ask me.
 
Laz

Laz

Developer
Was there an article to accompany the design changes? Or was Wizards just like 'run it back, no one will notice'?
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Laz said:
Was there an article to accompany the design changes? Or was Wizards just like 'run it back, no one will notice'?
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I didn't even recall them saying it was going to be up. I joined a queue thinking it was a Legendary Cube Draft, little did I know.

It seems like they have tacked on the most recent changes onto the article with the changes last time (so now we have no idea what the changes were from the previous iteration). There are only 4 changes, all of which are arguably worse than what was in there. Can't fix what ain't broken I guess...
 
Fulcrum

Fulcrum

Kirblinx said:
I didn't even recall them saying it was going to be up. I joined a queue thinking it was a Legendary Cube Draft, little did I know.

It seems like they have tacked on the most recent changes onto the article with the changes last time (so now we have no idea what the changes were from the previous iteration). There are only 4 changes, all of which are arguably worse than what was in there. Can't fix what ain't broken I guess...
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The changes were described here, #mce_temp_url# and basically boiled down to replacing bugged cards.
 
Chriskool

Chriskool

Kirblinx said:
I miss the legendary cube already. Who the hell allows someone to assemble this horrendous beast of unfun[...]

This isn't just Super friends, more like Super-Duper-Ultra-Happy-Mega Friends if you ask me.
Click to expand...


I think some of my monoamine neurotransmitters disintegrated upon seeing this deck. :( I am not excited by the Legacy cube at all. At least the Legendary cube attempted to be something different.

Maybe it's time to *really* lobby a change to MTGO cubing. I know that pauper/peasant cubes are fairly ubiquitous among cubers and am thinking that Penny Pinching at a 450-card population might be a suitable WotC-approved MTGO cube for a week or two.

I know the business Cardhoarder is running some sort of streaming coop with sponsored competitions. Maybe they would be receptive to a grid-draft series to showcase gameplay as part of the lobbying process (as an unbiased source in addition to some Riptide coverage).

Additionally, Grillo has written several pamphlets worth of material that could be transitioned into article series.

Do anyone else feel like they could be invested in such a process (and offer ideas to improve it, as the above is a half-cocked draft at best)?

Cheers
 
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