General MTGO Legendary Cube
- Thread starter silasw
- Start date
If youre playing Second Rite in cube, you create this fun (?) minigame where the goal is to get them to exactly 10.
Is that fun? It sounds fun but, like, i have no way of knowing.
It also seems best suited to midrange/creature based control where you can turn the minigame into an attrition war.
Is that fun? It sounds fun but, like, i have no way of knowing.
It also seems best suited to midrange/creature based control where you can turn the minigame into an attrition war.
Yeah, it would be ideally a fun mini-game that the opponent is usually not aware of, but could theoretically play around if they choose to respect it. Probably better the more Brainstorms you have to shuffle away a situational card.
Miserable is my forte. I have to try this thing out. 5 colour durdle trash here I come.
Oh is it up?
Promised a 2-1 durdle. Accomplished 2-1 durdle.
So what I noticed:
So what I noticed:
- Fixing is everywhere. I prioritised it but didn't really need to. As you can see all but 1 of my lands are non-basic. Every opponent I played also had a 50% non-basic mana base. There is a lot and you can pick it up when you please.
- Ramp is king. Generally no one does anything until turn 5, so whomever can start doing those turn 5 things early generally wins.
- No (creature) removal. There wasn't a lot going around and barely any was played against me. When you get a threat it is mostly going to go away by combat.
- Little dudes are awesome. I conceded 1 game turn 3 after they went turn 2 Lightning Greaves turn 3 Thada Adel, swing. I was not letting them see my deck and take the memorial. Not dead Daxos also did a decent amount of work against me. Yasova did a lot of work pushing through damage and was probably my MVP except for one other...
- High power is good. This is a combination of no removal and no little guys. Yasova and other MVP Zurgo, Helmsmasher were the two guys that did pretty much all of the damage. Multani also did some work.
- Game 1 I played against 5 colour Hondens. I can't believe it came together and it actually worked alright. If it wasn't for my Song of Dryads and SB Hull Breach I probably would have lost.
- He also had 3 duals (all forests) and a Refellos in his first three turns. It was real scary.
- Every game was a grind fest. Be aware, every round will go 50 minutes.
I wonder if maybe ramp is NOT king.
I won the final of my first (and only) (single-elim if that matters) draft on time. After decking my opponent in g2 he only had 1 second on his clock for g3. My deck featured two edicts, a Repulse, a genuine removal spell (Devour in Shadow), Time Stop (never drew it) and Cyclonic Rift. Even when I got stuck on mana and didn't do anything proactive this seemed to be enough to defend myself for an entire game against all three of the multicolor, signets-and-expensive-legends decks that I played against. None of the decks I played against seemed to do anything except the third which just cast Maelstrom Wanderer over and over again (mostly hitting signets and Pernicious Deed thankfully). My opponent in R1 got infinite mana with Rings of Brighthearth-Basalt Monolith WITH Staff of Domination in play and could not find a way to win. All of this makes me think my initial thought that you want to ramp to powerful threats might be wrong. Maybe you want a few answers and loads of powerful threats and then your greater threat density will allow you to kill your five signet opponent with the last man-or-two standing. Not sure though – I've only done one draft.
I won the final of my first (and only) (single-elim if that matters) draft on time. After decking my opponent in g2 he only had 1 second on his clock for g3. My deck featured two edicts, a Repulse, a genuine removal spell (Devour in Shadow), Time Stop (never drew it) and Cyclonic Rift. Even when I got stuck on mana and didn't do anything proactive this seemed to be enough to defend myself for an entire game against all three of the multicolor, signets-and-expensive-legends decks that I played against. None of the decks I played against seemed to do anything except the third which just cast Maelstrom Wanderer over and over again (mostly hitting signets and Pernicious Deed thankfully). My opponent in R1 got infinite mana with Rings of Brighthearth-Basalt Monolith WITH Staff of Domination in play and could not find a way to win. All of this makes me think my initial thought that you want to ramp to powerful threats might be wrong. Maybe you want a few answers and loads of powerful threats and then your greater threat density will allow you to kill your five signet opponent with the last man-or-two standing. Not sure though – I've only done one draft.
The legendary cube seems to have a lot of threats at 5+ mana with a lot of removal at 1-4 mana, which means drafting as much removal as possible is just optimal since you can easily cast a cheap removal spell the same turn you drop a threat, to their turn of just dropping a threat. At least in theory that kind of control should dominate. Having removal at lower cmcs than the threats, esp several cmcs lower, turns removal into god cards. When it comes down to two big fatty shenanigans decks, aside from weird combos, ramp is the mirror breaker. Decks without ramp and a high density of cheaper threats can probably beat control though so they at least have a rock-paper-scissors sort of dynamic going which is the best compliment I have for this cube. xP
In the interests of research I tried again. This time trying the 'pick cheap removal highly' method and ended up with what you would probably call an aggro deck in this cube:
So takeaways from the draft this time:
Match 1 vs Grixis Control:
Game 1 Went Isamaru -> Sword of Animist which got Firebolted. Turn 4 Brion, turn 5 equip swing then drop Alesha post combat, which gets ultimate priced. He then spends turn 6 Lightning Bolting and FB'ing Firebolt to finish off Brion. This allows me to turn 6 Ruric Thar which I know should almost be game. He Carefully Considers taking 6 damage then concedes.
Game 2: He is on the draw (what?) so I go turn 3 Nissa, while he Signets turn 3. Turn 4 Krenko, he Careful Considerations. Turn 5 Xenagos, attack for 8; this puts him at 9. He cracks a fetch, plays goggles then lightning bolt to kill both my creatures. Turn 6 Alesha, Xenagos trigger, Alesha trigger bring back Nissa hit for exactsies.
Match 2 vs 5-Colour Durdle (You know, the usual)
Game 1: Turn 2 Hero's Blade, Turn 3 Alesha, Turn 4 Brion. Opponent concedes. All I have seen at this point is a Hanna, Ship's Navigator.
Game 2: I drop Hero's Blade, Brion and Brimaz in the first 5 turns, in which he proceeds to play and bust Oblivion Stone in subsequent turns. I Valorous Stance Brimaz to save him. Beat him down to 4 next turn and play Krenko. He Austere Commands to wipe my board clean. I drop Alesha, he drops Yosei. I Crib Swap the Yosei and he chumps with the token. He drops Arcanis, I Song of the Dryads it and swing with Alesha to get him to 1. He Rightous Confluences to get himself to 11 and a knight token, gets Arcanis back and I have run out of gas. He then gets Legacy weapon and starts exiling my lands so with a heavy heart it is time to move on.
Game 3: Brimaz -> Yasova -> Brion. Opponent plays nothing relevant until turn 6 Sheoldred, I Valorous Stance it.
Opponent speaks out this game:
9:26 AM NameRedacted: gg
9:26 AM NameRedacted: I guess
gg indeed good sir.
Finals vs UR March of the Machines
Game 1: A well timed Kataki comes and spoils the party.
Game 2: Kataki -> Yasova -> Kalemne which end up getting Chain Reactioned. I drop Nissa and Hero's Blade. He drops Akroma's Memorial (scary). I Song of the Dryads it and drop Anafenza. He plays more mana rocks and I swing him down to 3. He then March of the Machines and Beacon of Tomorrows on the same turn, proceeds to untap then play Mind's Eye and pass. I play a land, flip Nissa. +1 her to reveal a Path to Exile, play Brion and pass. Opponent plays Jiwari and the Beacon (again), I path Jiwari in response. His next turn he uses Unstable Obelisk to kill Nissa, which is strange because I just untap and throw a creature with Brion for the win.
Game 1 Went Isamaru -> Sword of Animist which got Firebolted. Turn 4 Brion, turn 5 equip swing then drop Alesha post combat, which gets ultimate priced. He then spends turn 6 Lightning Bolting and FB'ing Firebolt to finish off Brion. This allows me to turn 6 Ruric Thar which I know should almost be game. He Carefully Considers taking 6 damage then concedes.
Game 2: He is on the draw (what?) so I go turn 3 Nissa, while he Signets turn 3. Turn 4 Krenko, he Careful Considerations. Turn 5 Xenagos, attack for 8; this puts him at 9. He cracks a fetch, plays goggles then lightning bolt to kill both my creatures. Turn 6 Alesha, Xenagos trigger, Alesha trigger bring back Nissa hit for exactsies.
Match 2 vs 5-Colour Durdle (You know, the usual)
Game 1: Turn 2 Hero's Blade, Turn 3 Alesha, Turn 4 Brion. Opponent concedes. All I have seen at this point is a Hanna, Ship's Navigator.
Game 2: I drop Hero's Blade, Brion and Brimaz in the first 5 turns, in which he proceeds to play and bust Oblivion Stone in subsequent turns. I Valorous Stance Brimaz to save him. Beat him down to 4 next turn and play Krenko. He Austere Commands to wipe my board clean. I drop Alesha, he drops Yosei. I Crib Swap the Yosei and he chumps with the token. He drops Arcanis, I Song of the Dryads it and swing with Alesha to get him to 1. He Rightous Confluences to get himself to 11 and a knight token, gets Arcanis back and I have run out of gas. He then gets Legacy weapon and starts exiling my lands so with a heavy heart it is time to move on.
Game 3: Brimaz -> Yasova -> Brion. Opponent plays nothing relevant until turn 6 Sheoldred, I Valorous Stance it.
Opponent speaks out this game:
9:26 AM NameRedacted: gg
9:26 AM NameRedacted: I guess
gg indeed good sir.
Finals vs UR March of the Machines
Game 1: A well timed Kataki comes and spoils the party.
Game 2: Kataki -> Yasova -> Kalemne which end up getting Chain Reactioned. I drop Nissa and Hero's Blade. He drops Akroma's Memorial (scary). I Song of the Dryads it and drop Anafenza. He plays more mana rocks and I swing him down to 3. He then March of the Machines and Beacon of Tomorrows on the same turn, proceeds to untap then play Mind's Eye and pass. I play a land, flip Nissa. +1 her to reveal a Path to Exile, play Brion and pass. Opponent plays Jiwari and the Beacon (again), I path Jiwari in response. His next turn he uses Unstable Obelisk to kill Nissa, which is strange because I just untap and throw a creature with Brion for the win.
- Cheap removal is indeed king. Playing any middling threat while opponents are ramping then removing all the top end makes the draft too easy.
- Hero's Blade is the nut. It a better Grafted Wargear in this format. Costs one less, doesn't kill your creature when you switch it around. Whenever it was on Brion or Alesha I felt so greedy it was glorious.
- Song of the Dryads is the best removal spell. Well Oblivion ring is probably better, but in my deck it was the best. Cheap and deals with everything. The ramp is negligible when you use it, as it is mainly on 6+ drops anyway.
- The condemn in the main was a mistake. I was only ever attacked once. I sided in Godo everytime (once I realised how OP Hero's Blade was).
- Fixing did come around late and picked it up when I didn't see removal or an aggressive threat. Still ended up with 6 on colour non-basics. I never had colour problems.
- Between both of these draft I have yet to use Sisay once. She seems good, but maybe everyone else thinks so too, as I never get to use her :\
- Artifact hate is maindeckable. Everyone has mana rocks it seems (except this deck
) - I can't believe March of the Machines is a decent build around card. Finals opponents deck was pretty sweet.
Has anyone experienced a stark degrade in MTGO's level of quality with the release of this patch? My core is maxing out on starting MTGO (but was doing fine for a 2-3 matches prior).
As far as the cube goes, I have had similar experience as Kirblinx: the Hero's Blade is very powerful. Also, the WW legends with combat-focused abilities seem pretty good. My 3-0s and 2-1s have been W-x(-y) decks. Everytime I draft a ramp deck, I feel like my threat density is too low.
As far as the cube goes, I have had similar experience as Kirblinx: the Hero's Blade is very powerful. Also, the WW legends with combat-focused abilities seem pretty good. My 3-0s and 2-1s have been W-x(-y) decks. Everytime I draft a ramp deck, I feel like my threat density is too low.
So, I have 122 play points and decided to draft until I lost them. Have done 5 drafts and still have all my points.
Not going to write up match reports this time (it's way too much work) but here are all my decklists:
From all this I can now say that ramp is almost always actively bad (as opposed to my first draft). Spending so many slots on ramp and big guys make you so susceptible to any sort of disruption and removal. All of those cards that you spent to get your 6 drop out on turn four won't help you when it gets removed the next turn for 3 mana. Others above have said this and it is absolutely true. The only instances that I have lost to these decks is if they have used MULTIPLE board sweepers to take out 3-4 of my threats to recoup the card advantage they have lost with the ramp.
Now for the fun little tidbits in dot point form:
As long as my suffering (Sure the format is very samey but I am enjoying crushing the casuals) is enjoyed being read by others, then it is all worth it.
Also, I managed to open a Mystic Confluence in my prizes so it has now been taken by Safra for the Riptide account. You're welcome Jason.
Not going to write up match reports this time (it's way too much work) but here are all my decklists:
Now for the fun little tidbits in dot point form:
- Kataki is nearly always a beating on turn 2. Completely throws everyone off expecting to do a 4-drop with their signet then doing nothing for a couple of turns.
- Haste is really strong too. Most of the removal is sorcery based, so being able to get a swing before it dies is huge. This probably explains why nearly every deck listed has Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury, a great top end.
- Always prioritise 2-3 drops while drafting. They are all efficient enough beaters or decent removal that will leave other people in the dust. Plenty of 4 and 5 drops will come your way so never pick them unless there is nothing else.
- One opponent next leveled be by floating a mana in his pool (that I didn't see) so when I tried to Mystic Confluence when I saw he had 2 untapped lands... Needless to say it didn't end well.
- I had one game where a Turn 1 Zurgo did all 20 damage. There was so much collateral damage around the coward but having a clock early in this format that you can protect and push through will literally win you the game.
- An opponent Verdant Confluenced my Horobi, Death's Wail. There was a solid 1 minute pause when he was trying to figure out why he didn't get his two basics.
- I had a bit of a threat density problem with the Angry Esper list, but I always had 2 removal spells in hand. Toshiro Umezawa was awesome and Tragic Slip was terrible as there was never more than 1 creature on the board at once.
- I killed a Dragonlord Ojutai and Silumgar, the Drifting Death with Ashling the Pilgrim. That girl is such a threat on her own. I wonder if she could be played in a normal low-powered cube?
- Green is a bit weak, due to the minimal removal it has. All the removal is in White and Black, so they are the best to be based in. Burn is alright as a supplement, same with blue bounce, as long as you have the 'low' enough curve to justify them.
As long as my suffering (Sure the format is very samey but I am enjoying crushing the casuals) is enjoyed being read by others, then it is all worth it.
Also, I managed to open a Mystic Confluence in my prizes so it has now been taken by Safra for the Riptide account. You're welcome Jason.
Since the Legendary Cube is back on MTGO, I thought that in the interest of science that I would give it another couple of spins. It is nice that they no longer have the 'only Legendaries' restriction and even the themes they decided to put in were cool. It is still horribly wonky though, with some terrible cards (Exile Into Darkness, really Wizards?!) but that doesn't mean it can't be fun and 'solvable'.
I had a couple of drafts where I went all-in on a theme (dredge was the main one) but usually I just did my prioritising of cheap removal, CMC 2-3 creatures and mana fixing and it generally worked out well. Here were my decks:
As you can see I like to go Mardu, as that is where all the removal is based. It also holds most of the low-drop creatures and with the drafting tiers in my head this is where I usually go. I have seen UB control in the finals 3 times, so that is also a good deck, I think people just keep taking the blue away from me.
The dredge deck was my only money loss, as I decided to go all in on it since no one was picking any of the cards in any of the other draft I was in. It was alright, but in going for a high creature density, I didn't pick up any removal. This coupled with the fact I had so many creatures I couldn't cast until something had happened (Sewer Nemesis, Golgari Grave-Troll, Splinterfright, Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, Skaab Ruinator) left me floundering way too much. It was great fun when it went off though (Had to scavenge a Splinterfright and Ruinator onto a 2/1 to throw with Jarad for lethal.
Now for dot point form as I enjoy that better:
I had a couple of drafts where I went all-in on a theme (dredge was the main one) but usually I just did my prioritising of cheap removal, CMC 2-3 creatures and mana fixing and it generally worked out well. Here were my decks:
The dredge deck was my only money loss, as I decided to go all in on it since no one was picking any of the cards in any of the other draft I was in. It was alright, but in going for a high creature density, I didn't pick up any removal. This coupled with the fact I had so many creatures I couldn't cast until something had happened (Sewer Nemesis, Golgari Grave-Troll, Splinterfright, Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, Skaab Ruinator) left me floundering way too much. It was great fun when it went off though (Had to scavenge a Splinterfright and Ruinator onto a 2/1 to throw with Jarad for lethal.
Now for dot point form as I enjoy that better:
- The White Weenie deck I thought was the best looking deck. It won handily in the first two only to get flooded and wrecked by Lavalanche. I got 2! 1-drops. What is this? Powered cube?
- The Opalesence deck was the most fun. It lost to itself as it animated a Day of Destinies on my opponents side, and I couldn't deal with the 6/6 (He had Shinka, Bloodsoaked Keep, so I couldn't block profitably).
- Adamaro + Tenza is nuts. I won two games with that strat alone. Then I come up against it with the elf deck and stabilise against it with Omnath. Was a tight game.
- Hero's Blade is still OP. Was great fun throwing the equipped creatures with Brion. Is also great with Aurelia.
- Haste is still really good. There is almost no instant speed removal. Flamekin Village has been passed to me multiple times and has really overperformed. If I am in red I take it highly.
- I got to Glimmerpoint Stag someones bounceland. I felt I was playing a Penny Pincher Draft all over again.
- I had an opponent Maelstrom Wanderer into a Dragonlord Atarka. Needless to say I didn't even bother looking at the next cascade.
- Crib Swap. Easily the best card in the format. Cheap, unconditional removal. The only time I regretted the token was when the opponent 5-times kicked a Joraga Warcaller. I think I pacified it the turn after
I'm so excited somebody out there has the courage to cube Exile Into Darkness. I really wanted that card to be good outside of, like, no mana-cap Tiny Leaders, and I know it isn't, and my drafters think it's stupid.
I wonder what it would take for me to be really excited about it!
I'm very very excited about those decks though those are great. I really appreciate the theory on a Cube I still haven't played but expect to be influential, and the Opalescence deck looks amazing.
I wonder what it would take for me to be really excited about it!
I'm very very excited about those decks though those are great. I really appreciate the theory on a Cube I still haven't played but expect to be influential, and the Opalescence deck looks amazing.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I played Exile into Darkness at a PTQ (in a deck also featuring Meloku the Clouded Mirror and Troll Ascetic)! It was great fun, but I didn't qualify
Then again, I also played Woodlurker Mimic + Doran, the Siege Tower at a PTQ, so maybe you shouldn't take my PTQ decks too seriously Nowadays there's even PPTQ's, and even more established metagames. I think I would do quite poorly with my selfmade decks if I were to take up constructed Magic again 
http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/51496
There's a visual spoiler of the new legendary cube btw.
There's a visual spoiler of the new legendary cube btw.
I claim this is all for research, but I feel I may have an addiction. It is just so easy to win in this thing.
Another swath of decks, this time all in the single elim queue:
I want to talk a little about that Mardu deck in the middle. I was getting hated out in all the colours I was picking and ended up with a lot of cards that have no real place in the deck (Heroes Podium, Graveblade Marauder). It still seemed like an alright deck, removal, decent curve, etc, but it just didn't have that explosive feel that most of the other deck I had drafted had.
Round 1 I am up against the person who is in the same deck as me. I win game 1 as he mulls to 4, he wins game 2 as I flood. Game 3 came down to a tech Celestial Flare on either Urabrask or Tajic, which he thankfully sacced Urabrask which let Linvala followed by Crovax finish him off.
Match 2 I lose to Karlov + Pristine Talisman, then beat him with Obzedat due to only sorcery speed removal. Game 3 was long and windy where a Sewer Nemesis came down early and started to mill all his bombs. It was at 13/13 after he decided to double a Rush of Knowledge with Chandra the Firebrand. Then after what felt like an age, I get my 3rd red source for Jiwari and clean away all the goblins to finish him with 3 cards left in his library.
Match 3 was all dependant on what my opponent got off of Maelstrom Wanderer. When he got Abundant Growth + Lavalanche I could win. Crovax, Ascendant Hero was great against Myr Battlesphere too, might I add. I just got just lucky enough in the last game where he hit big but I had Divine Deflection for just enough to leave me at two and kill him.
I guess luck is all you really need. Linvala is kind of a beating though too.
Tidbits:
Another swath of decks, this time all in the single elim queue:
Round 1 I am up against the person who is in the same deck as me. I win game 1 as he mulls to 4, he wins game 2 as I flood. Game 3 came down to a tech Celestial Flare on either Urabrask or Tajic, which he thankfully sacced Urabrask which let Linvala followed by Crovax finish him off.
Match 2 I lose to Karlov + Pristine Talisman, then beat him with Obzedat due to only sorcery speed removal. Game 3 was long and windy where a Sewer Nemesis came down early and started to mill all his bombs. It was at 13/13 after he decided to double a Rush of Knowledge with Chandra the Firebrand. Then after what felt like an age, I get my 3rd red source for Jiwari and clean away all the goblins to finish him with 3 cards left in his library.
Match 3 was all dependant on what my opponent got off of Maelstrom Wanderer. When he got Abundant Growth + Lavalanche I could win. Crovax, Ascendant Hero was great against Myr Battlesphere too, might I add. I just got just lucky enough in the last game where he hit big but I had Divine Deflection for just enough to leave me at two and kill him.
I guess luck is all you really need. Linvala is kind of a beating though too.
Tidbits:
- My manabases have been pretty stable for 3+ colour decks. Have only ever been colour screwed once. Still don't really need to prioritise fixing as it seems to come out late.
- In the Naya Beats deck I managed to kill someone with Rhys the Redeemed alone. Citadel Siege is a card. Kept trying to block with Springjack Pasture tokens, and I burnt them away.
- The failed opalesence deck is what happens when someone hates out your enchantments :\ The dragons still managed to do some damage as attacking with Dromoka and Kolaghan is obscene damage.
- Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury has to be my pick for best card in the cube. I think there is only like 2 ways to deal with it and it hits like a truck. You probably see it in a lot of my decks.
- I also managed to get a Starfield of Nyx + Pariah lock in the very last game with that 5-colour pile. I felt that made the draft worth it.
- The artifact deck last to a flashed in Yeva, Nature's Herald, followed by flashed Lord of Extinction. Needless to say I wasn't expecting that.
- Won a game with Sharuum bringing back a Myr Battlesphere after a wrath and giving it haste with the Flamekin Village. I felt the salt through the screen.
- Exile into Darkness I have now seen twice. Once when my opponent discarded it when they had too many cards, for it to come back next turn (value!). The other killed my token from Nissa, which was sitting next to a summoning sick Brion that I am sure he would have wished to kill. You need to be dropping threats turn 5+, not killing the minimal amount of tiny dudes this cube has.
- I got win an almost winless game by Word of Seizing a Lord of Extinction that they didn't need to play.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Caleb Durwald did a vid over on CFB. Both the draft and the games, especially the games, are awesome!
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-legendary-cube-draft-3/
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-legendary-cube-draft-3/
Aoret
Developer
...I still don't get it u_u