Article New Magic Block Structure
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Super duper awesome news. I am stoked. And I don't even play Standard!
This might be their best decision in ages, coming from someone who firmly supported damage off the stack and the new border.
This might be their best decision in ages, coming from someone who firmly supported damage off the stack and the new border.
It really does feel like they just sat down and came up with an improvement. It seems like not even wotc liked born of the gods and dragons maze.
What small third sets have actually been good?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Journey into Nyx (at the expense of Born of the Gods), Rise of the Eldrazi, Fifth Dawn and Apocalypse.
Edit: Small third sets. Oops, strike Rise then.
Edit: Small third sets. Oops, strike Rise then.
Ok.
This change means that retail drafts are becoming decreasingly singleton. 
If only we had some way of knowing what back-to-back two-set blocks look like...
That is an excellent question actually.. how have wotc done these kind of things before? Unless it's something like a duel deck it sounds a bit off putting as a beginner to not be able to play with my new cards at the fnm but.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
CML
Contributor
a lot of them, for example, the last one. Magic players' sense of history is so bad the Mothership can issue communiqués as inconsistent as those of Oceania and get away with it faster than you can purge Winston Smith
JNX also enormously improved the draft format, though the argument "the other two sucked" is more than valid. in general i like the change but i also like third sets and you should too. here's why:
weatherlight -- kinda lame, also a lack of mirage-quality flavor and art outweigh the graveyard theme's debut
exodus -- pretty awesome, any set where survival of the fittest premieres has to be great
urza's destiny -- the original shitty 3rd set -- so bad I thought the spoilers were a joke as a kid. treachery sure is fun huh
prophecy -- the shitty 3rd set of a shitty block. this is why we'll never see "sacrifice a land" as a mechanic ever again.
apocalypse -- very high in the list of best sets of all time, i'm certain they were consciously trying to break out of the slump too. deed, arena, vindicate, spiritmonger, lightning angel, the list of cubeworthy and nearly cubeworthy cards is impressive for a set of that antiquity.
judgment -- pretty awesome, not much for cube though (for the most part)
scourge -- carrion feeder and the last gasp of the good frame make up for the unforgivable storm. the historical detail is that it was the capstone to a draft format that had been really bad with just one set, probably got worse with Legions, and became pretty fun with the entire block.
fifth dawn -- another hit, who doesn't like sunburst and 1-cmc artifacts and cantrips? condescend engineered explosives eternal witness grafted wargear magma jet night's whisper and a lot more fun options for low-power cube, including a bunch that helped make MMA what it was. the MD5 draft format wasn't great because the creatures sucked, but some of the games were delightfully involved. when i think about it i think about what a waste SOM block was because they did a lot of things right in MD5.
saviors -- prophecy 2004!
dissension -- probably the best set in the best block of all time. the guild mechanics were poor, but i cannot stress how little that mattered compared to how much one might think it matters reading all the maro horseshit. they got the "unless X was spent to play it" thing right, carom is one of the coolest combat tricks of all time, utopia sprawl and the guild stuff in general kept it from wrecking the fixing balance of the first gold block, etc.
future sight -- one of the sweetest sets of all time if youplay think about magic enough to post on a cube forum, hugely influential, tarmogoyf, etc. having played triple Time Spiral and TPF several times each (but not TTP), I'm pretty sure future sight worsened the draft format, though how much of this was due to Sprout Swarm is open to debate.
alara reborn -- tiramisu after the nutriloaf of conflux
rise of the eldrazi -- there are a few arguments against people who dislike this set but my favorite is "yo shut the fuck up"
new phyrexia -- i'd argue this set's huge influence on all constructed formats has been positive enough to make up for the misstep era in Legacy, and it's not like pouring wine on the shit that was SOM block would stop the draft format from being shit in any case.
AVR -- unabashed fanservice, such a terrible set it's become a running joke among my goons who don't play much (or should we say waddling joke since it's magic?) this set sucked so much MaRo described it as "successful."
DGM -- horrible and i hate the entire block format too and don't understand why anyone else liked it. spawned an article i wrote about "an off-color joke" feat. more fixing in probably your cube to this very day!
JNX -- see NPH comments about wine on shit
in conclusion, third sets are great and:
1. hating on third sets a recent phenomenon based on the historical trend of TWO SETS
2. lots of magic players have memories where n ≤ 2, they'd probably say Iraq invaded the US or Ron Paul did 9/11 if MaRo told them to
3. third sets were often great to play with
4. i won't miss the core set much, but m11, m13, and m15 were pretty fun
5. i still got sick of the year-long draft format and am happy to see it go for that reason + stale standard
6. the real reason third sets are going away is the designers were painfully aware of #5 and largely incapable of making a draft environment where XXX, XXY, and XYZ are all good
7. know your Limited history, we're a fucking cube forum!
please turn this into an article and spam it everywhere
JNX also enormously improved the draft format, though the argument "the other two sucked" is more than valid. in general i like the change but i also like third sets and you should too. here's why:
weatherlight -- kinda lame, also a lack of mirage-quality flavor and art outweigh the graveyard theme's debut
exodus -- pretty awesome, any set where survival of the fittest premieres has to be great
urza's destiny -- the original shitty 3rd set -- so bad I thought the spoilers were a joke as a kid. treachery sure is fun huh
prophecy -- the shitty 3rd set of a shitty block. this is why we'll never see "sacrifice a land" as a mechanic ever again.
apocalypse -- very high in the list of best sets of all time, i'm certain they were consciously trying to break out of the slump too. deed, arena, vindicate, spiritmonger, lightning angel, the list of cubeworthy and nearly cubeworthy cards is impressive for a set of that antiquity.
judgment -- pretty awesome, not much for cube though (for the most part)
scourge -- carrion feeder and the last gasp of the good frame make up for the unforgivable storm. the historical detail is that it was the capstone to a draft format that had been really bad with just one set, probably got worse with Legions, and became pretty fun with the entire block.
fifth dawn -- another hit, who doesn't like sunburst and 1-cmc artifacts and cantrips? condescend engineered explosives eternal witness grafted wargear magma jet night's whisper and a lot more fun options for low-power cube, including a bunch that helped make MMA what it was. the MD5 draft format wasn't great because the creatures sucked, but some of the games were delightfully involved. when i think about it i think about what a waste SOM block was because they did a lot of things right in MD5.
saviors -- prophecy 2004!
dissension -- probably the best set in the best block of all time. the guild mechanics were poor, but i cannot stress how little that mattered compared to how much one might think it matters reading all the maro horseshit. they got the "unless X was spent to play it" thing right, carom is one of the coolest combat tricks of all time, utopia sprawl and the guild stuff in general kept it from wrecking the fixing balance of the first gold block, etc.
future sight -- one of the sweetest sets of all time if you
alara reborn -- tiramisu after the nutriloaf of conflux
rise of the eldrazi -- there are a few arguments against people who dislike this set but my favorite is "yo shut the fuck up"
new phyrexia -- i'd argue this set's huge influence on all constructed formats has been positive enough to make up for the misstep era in Legacy, and it's not like pouring wine on the shit that was SOM block would stop the draft format from being shit in any case.
AVR -- unabashed fanservice, such a terrible set it's become a running joke among my goons who don't play much (or should we say waddling joke since it's magic?) this set sucked so much MaRo described it as "successful."
DGM -- horrible and i hate the entire block format too and don't understand why anyone else liked it. spawned an article i wrote about "an off-color joke" feat. more fixing in probably your cube to this very day!
JNX -- see NPH comments about wine on shit
in conclusion, third sets are great and:
1. hating on third sets a recent phenomenon based on the historical trend of TWO SETS
2. lots of magic players have memories where n ≤ 2, they'd probably say Iraq invaded the US or Ron Paul did 9/11 if MaRo told them to
3. third sets were often great to play with
4. i won't miss the core set much, but m11, m13, and m15 were pretty fun
5. i still got sick of the year-long draft format and am happy to see it go for that reason + stale standard
6. the real reason third sets are going away is the designers were painfully aware of #5 and largely incapable of making a draft environment where XXX, XXY, and XYZ are all good
7. know your Limited history, we're a fucking cube forum!
please turn this into an article and spam it everywhere
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I agree with most of your set judgments, but not you conclusion. I count a lot more than two bad and/or unexciting (which is just as bad) sets. More importantly however, the problem is not the third set, the problem is three sets. A good third set has often been part of a block with another bad set in it. Journey into Nyx was good, Born of the Gods was horrible. Rise of the Eldrazi was super fun, Zendikar was meh. Fifth Dawn got me back into Magic, Mirrodin and its affinity mechanic drove scores away. Apocalypse was the stone cold nuts, Planeshift had... Flametongue Kavu and not much else (though I have to admit, Flametongue is the one red 4-drop I can't myself cutting from my cube, ever). Etc.
Don't forget how bad Conflux was, though, not unlike Journey into Nyx and Born of the Gods. The real question should be, what third sets were worthwhile where the second sets didn't suck?
Dom Harvey
Contributor
This is the only change I can remember that I've seen universal approval for.
Didn't people like drafting sets backwards instead of forwards?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, that change was also pretty popular.
I remember the first change to the legend rule (i.e. the last one stays instead of the first one) was also a vast improvement. No more "who is the first to play Lin-Sivvi" bullshit.
CML remains my favourite poster because of this shit.
This example absolutely illustrates my frustrations with Maro content and the way magic players relate to wotc design shit. That set made such a huge positive impact to the draft format and added a little freshness to a pretty diverse and exciting standard format. Of course this isn't the easiest thing to make talking points for so morons might feel encouraged to go with maro's criticisms of it's mechanics and complexity or number of cards that made it into top8 standard decks.
What would it take to turn this into something on the front page? Formatting? An opening paragraph? Set symbol icons before each blurb?
I sorta blame how streamlined they are making the formats, and how "canned" the flavor and mechanical experience they are putting out is. Theros was a revolution to me when I figured it out and learned to love it, but god did it feel like playing theros + weird new theros + weird new theros2 every time they came out with a new expansion. And god was the cheeseball flavor not doing it for me. I felt like I was being forcefed the flavor and it had been cartoonized what might have been something really characterful drawing upon what is classic. Instead of Marvel Ultimates, we ended up having "The Superhero Squad". It's like the new aesthetic of magic involves not giving it's audience any credit.
Maybe I'll find it more palatable with only two plates full of new world order set design. But I think what CML was pointing out was that the point's maro was making about last sets are kinda misleading.
FYI: I don't think any of the sets in mirrodin block were bad. If any of them were kinda rank it was probably fifth dawn. Mirrodin/Darksteel were definitely risky moves for their flagship format that needs to be comfortable for babies, but that standard era really doesn't bother people who like extended or modern, and those are my kinda people. I think it was a great block in isolation.
This example absolutely illustrates my frustrations with Maro content and the way magic players relate to wotc design shit. That set made such a huge positive impact to the draft format and added a little freshness to a pretty diverse and exciting standard format. Of course this isn't the easiest thing to make talking points for so morons might feel encouraged to go with maro's criticisms of it's mechanics and complexity or number of cards that made it into top8 standard decks.
What would it take to turn this into something on the front page? Formatting? An opening paragraph? Set symbol icons before each blurb?
I sorta blame how streamlined they are making the formats, and how "canned" the flavor and mechanical experience they are putting out is. Theros was a revolution to me when I figured it out and learned to love it, but god did it feel like playing theros + weird new theros + weird new theros2 every time they came out with a new expansion. And god was the cheeseball flavor not doing it for me. I felt like I was being forcefed the flavor and it had been cartoonized what might have been something really characterful drawing upon what is classic. Instead of Marvel Ultimates, we ended up having "The Superhero Squad". It's like the new aesthetic of magic involves not giving it's audience any credit.
Maybe I'll find it more palatable with only two plates full of new world order set design. But I think what CML was pointing out was that the point's maro was making about last sets are kinda misleading.
FYI: I don't think any of the sets in mirrodin block were bad. If any of them were kinda rank it was probably fifth dawn. Mirrodin/Darksteel were definitely risky moves for their flagship format that needs to be comfortable for babies, but that standard era really doesn't bother people who like extended or modern, and those are my kinda people. I think it was a great block in isolation.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Affinity in extended and modern is a completely different beast from affinity in standard back then. It was near unbeatable. Either you played affinity, or you ran mono-artifact hate, which created a really, really destructive constructed metagame, as shown by the flock of "babies" (you keep using that word as if there is a lesser kind of player, what gives?) leaving the game back then. It took Magic a while to regain its lost followers and they were lucky (or good I suppose) to strike upon the gold mine that was Ravnica.
No dude, I mean the pace of the game reminded me of playing in extended, and how hard the hard counters were and how you needed them. I have no idea why you think I'm making a direct comparison between modern affinity and Clamp Affinity etc lol.
Nearly unbeatable? I dunno man goblins + oxidize made great showings, tooth and nail was rough stuff even before the artifact lands bannings. Akroma's vengeance and damping matrix ripped the format apart. Pulse of the fields was like an 8 dollar card. Omg and who could forget casting chalice of the void on 1 against the ravager deck and watching it squirm, unless you had like no removal at all the game was over. Omg maindeck annul! ugh I miss that format so much. Yeah people quit, yeah, standard didn't feel like standard, but man was it an involved, interesting format with tonnes of zany interactions and metagaming potential.
OMG ponza, I totally forgot! And Crystal Shard! There was a competitive standard deck based around bouncing your dumbass viridian shaman or eternal witness ahhahaha! While ravager still had artifact lands!
I keep calling it babies because usually I mean lesser enfranchised players, or like people who have trouble adapting to weirder formats or haven't seen or felt the real depth and breadth of the game you get from long standing familiarity or eternal formats. I also tend to throw people who cling to wotc's current stance in all matters in this group and people who make long winded complaints about things like thoughtseize and popular deck X in standard in this "babies" category. Standard is admittedly their "for babies" format, they make a lot of concessions in it to make it accessible and fun in a particular way that is inclusive and not too scary. Mirrodin block was scary as shit. Even after all the bannings, fighting through rude awakening after rude awakening with eternal witnesses is nuts. Vedalken Shackles is one of the most teeth grinding cards to play against, turn 2 molten rain was kinda just a normal thing! It was like we were playing one of the broken cutting edge deeper formats, not like we were playing the games flagship, with it's arms open and a broad welcoming smile. But the answers were there, and the decks were damn diverse.
Nearly unbeatable? I dunno man goblins + oxidize made great showings, tooth and nail was rough stuff even before the artifact lands bannings. Akroma's vengeance and damping matrix ripped the format apart. Pulse of the fields was like an 8 dollar card. Omg and who could forget casting chalice of the void on 1 against the ravager deck and watching it squirm, unless you had like no removal at all the game was over. Omg maindeck annul! ugh I miss that format so much. Yeah people quit, yeah, standard didn't feel like standard, but man was it an involved, interesting format with tonnes of zany interactions and metagaming potential.
OMG ponza, I totally forgot! And Crystal Shard! There was a competitive standard deck based around bouncing your dumbass viridian shaman or eternal witness ahhahaha! While ravager still had artifact lands!
I keep calling it babies because usually I mean lesser enfranchised players, or like people who have trouble adapting to weirder formats or haven't seen or felt the real depth and breadth of the game you get from long standing familiarity or eternal formats. I also tend to throw people who cling to wotc's current stance in all matters in this group and people who make long winded complaints about things like thoughtseize and popular deck X in standard in this "babies" category. Standard is admittedly their "for babies" format, they make a lot of concessions in it to make it accessible and fun in a particular way that is inclusive and not too scary. Mirrodin block was scary as shit. Even after all the bannings, fighting through rude awakening after rude awakening with eternal witnesses is nuts. Vedalken Shackles is one of the most teeth grinding cards to play against, turn 2 molten rain was kinda just a normal thing! It was like we were playing one of the broken cutting edge deeper formats, not like we were playing the games flagship, with it's arms open and a broad welcoming smile. But the answers were there, and the decks were damn diverse.