Pete's Arena Cube

First off I would commend you on building this cube. It pains me that you have not gotten much response, but here goes nothing. I am definitely interested in drafting and playing cube on arena.

I played the heck out of the last iteration of arena cube. The last iteration of tinkerers cube, on the other hand made for very tedious games where both players were more or less goldfishing to get their overwhelming engine online first. This thread outlines other riptiders negative experiences with the tinkerers cube. My play experiences with MtgA cube offerings so far form the basis for my comments on critique of your card choices.

First some general comments on the challenges of building a cube on magic arena.

1: Card acquisition: MtgA's economy makes it impossible or exceedingly expensive to gather the requisite cards to particiate in cube drafts. In order to be more inclusive of non-enfranchised players I've also tried to build peasant cubes or "budget" cubes where I only include rares that offer a unique effect, for example land cycles. I think it is important to be cognizant of this feature of MtgA and adjusting to your target audience.

2: Supporting micro archetypes: This is a general discussion in cube design; whether to support macro-archetypes (aggro, midrange, control, combo) or micro archetypes (blink, landfall, +1/+1 counters etc.). I find that the regular arena cube and tinkerers cube fall on opposite sides of the spectrum. The arena cube is, as we've come to expect of WotC's cubes, an assembly of the greatest hits of the historic card pool. Many or most of the macro archetypes are supported, with neat interactions between individual cards or groups of cards.
The tinkerer's cube eschews the "goodstuffy" card choices in favor of more synergy-driven drafting. In my mind this makes for more parasitic and "on-rails" drafting (sorry Trainmaster, but this term, though derogative, is well established).

Can you speak to these two overarching design challenges and how your cube relates to them?

You do not outline your design goals or archetypes in your post or on the cubecobra blog. I surmise that your list is an attempt to improve upon the regular arena cube and recognize certain archetypes from that cube.

White-black life gain
I appreciate this archetype in the abstract as it gives White-black a flavorful identity. I have been looking to support it in various ways in my lists. Alas I have moved away from it for the following reasons:
- I find that it is too polarizing of a matchup against aggro or other creature based midrange decks. Soul Warden is the main offender as it even punishes the opponent for playing creatures, especially with an Ajani's pridemate or Heliod, Sun-crowned on the battlefield as their creatures grow to be overwhelming threats. My opinion is based (and may be overly biased) by playing against life gain decks in historic and finding the experience miserable.
Proposed solution: Change the focus from individual life-gain triggers to gaining chunks of life to either turn on key cards or paying costs.

Green-multicolor / Field of the dead

This is the epitomy of the dreaded 5c "good stuff" deck, though with a unique spin. Golos is the center-piece of the deck, serving both as an enabler and a pay-off. It was often touted as the "deck to beat" in both iterations of the regular arena cube. Though not directly applicable to cube, Field of the dead has been banned in several formats. The recurring reasoning is its deterministic play pattern.

- There are few ways to interact with the deck outside of beating them down before they assemble "tron". I find 2 maindeckable land destruction cards and Field of ruin as a sideboard option.
- The deck cannibalizes on the other decks fixing. This may be a function of people not drafting fixing highly enough. It is alleviated by inclusion of MDFC's (the backside is a land with a unique name).
Proposed solutions: Including more land destruction. Alternatively eschewing Field of the dead in favor of other tutorable lands that give a long-term advantage. Including Ramunap Excavator and Crucible of worlds and a few Kaldheim CCDD lands as an alternative late game engine. (supplementing my favorite pet peeve, hypno toad)

Blue Black Rogues/Mill
I don't find the requisite support for the mill cards in your list for it to be a reliable strategy. This is exacerbated by most colors having a way to capitalize on the milled cards (black recursive creatures, escape etc.) and even turning off your cards. I would rather have focused on self-mill to enable Thassa's Oracle and Jace, Wielder of mysteries. Emry, lurker of the lochis a good self-mill enabler which also gives blue a reason to care about artifacts.

Bx Demonic Pact


I had great fun trying to break this in the regular arena cube and I am sad to see you not include it in your list. I may have rose-tinted glasses about this card. At present there may not be enough support. With Strixhaven coming up we get Lorehold Command with one of the options being "sacrifice a permanent, then draw two cards". Future historic offerings may give us other ways to abuse the card.

Individual cards:
Goblin Chainwhirler, Benalish Marshal and other overly color intensive cards. These, I feel, incentivize mono color drafting in a parasitic way. Anax, Hardened in the forge, which you already include is more versatile as it is pickable and playable outside of monored where it shines.

Shepherd of the Flock is a sweet card with a plethora of interactions. It's most basic use is rescuing something from removal. A 3/1 also hits hard if you need to beat down. In standard it is being used to great effect to rebuy Showdown of the skalds. It can also rebuy MDFCs or creatures with ETBs. A great glue card in my opinion.

Those are my thoughts.
Here is my work in progress and a comparison between our lists. I have been waffling between including powerful cards (mostly rares) that stand more on their own and trying to give the colors an identity and promoting synergies. I can flesh out my thoughts about design goals and card choices later, if you like.
 
First off I would commend you on building this cube. It pains me that you have not gotten much response, but here goes nothing. I am definitely interested in drafting and playing cube on arena.

Hey, man. Thanks for the detailed analysis! I've been letting this project languish for a while because, uh, I've been writing a book (click if you like RPGs and want to see my D&D hack). I'm unlikely to make any changes until that project is finished, but who knows, I'm here because Strixhaven spoilers are shiny.

I played the heck out of the last iteration of arena cube. The last iteration of tinkerers cube, on the other hand made for very tedious games where both players were more or less goldfishing to get their overwhelming engine online first. This thread outlines other riptiders negative experiences with the tinkerers cube. My play experiences with MtgA cube offerings so far form the basis for my comments on critique of your card choices.

Yes, this cube started as a reaction to the latest iterations of the Arena cube and the Tinkerer's cube. A lot of my choices are responses to my experiences with those cubes, which mirror a lot of the opinions of other Riptide Labbers.

First some general comments on the challenges of building a cube on magic arena.

1: Card acquisition: MtgA's economy makes it impossible or exceedingly expensive to gather the requisite cards to particiate in cube drafts. In order to be more inclusive of non-enfranchised players I've also tried to build peasant cubes or "budget" cubes where I only include rares that offer a unique effect, for example land cycles. I think it is important to be cognizant of this feature of MtgA and adjusting to your target audience.

This has always been the main challenge. Drafting this cube is only going to work with very enfranchised Arena players who have significant Historic collections and a handful of wildcards to burn. I'm not even sure I could build every deck that's draftable in the cube at the moment. That said, it's still a more economical proposition than maintaining a paper cube, and I've played this any my paper cube the exact same number of times in the past year (zero).

2: Supporting micro archetypes: This is a general discussion in cube design; whether to support macro-archetypes (aggro, midrange, control, combo) or micro archetypes (blink, landfall, +1/+1 counters etc.). I find that the regular arena cube and tinkerers cube fall on opposite sides of the spectrum. The arena cube is, as we've come to expect of WotC's cubes, an assembly of the greatest hits of the historic card pool. Many or most of the macro archetypes are supported, with neat interactions between individual cards or groups of cards.
The tinkerer's cube eschews the "goodstuffy" card choices in favor of more synergy-driven drafting. In my mind this makes for more parasitic and "on-rails" drafting (sorry Trainmaster, but this term, though derogative, is well established).

I don't hate general goodstuff as much as some people here do, and my tastes probably skew a little more traditional than a few people here. I think it is possible to take the general goodstuff skeleton of a lot of WotC's cubes and significantly improve them by shaving some of the top and bottom and being smarter about including micro-archetypes, which is what I'm trying to do here.

You do not outline your design goals or archetypes in your post or on the cubecobra blog. I surmise that your list is an attempt to improve upon the regular arena cube and recognize certain archetypes from that cube.

I'm gonna be honest, that's because I never really expected too many people to look at it. The whole thing started as a thought experiment, though I would like to try actually drafting the darn thing one of these days.

White-black life gain
I appreciate this archetype in the abstract as it gives White-black a flavorful identity. I have been looking to support it in various ways in my lists. Alas I have moved away from it for the following reasons:
- I find that it is too polarizing of a matchup against aggro or other creature based midrange decks. Soul Warden is the main offender as it even punishes the opponent for playing creatures, especially with an Ajani's pridemate or Heliod, Sun-crowned on the battlefield as their creatures grow to be overwhelming threats. My opinion is based (and may be overly biased) by playing against life gain decks in historic and finding the experience miserable.
Proposed solution: Change the focus from individual life-gain triggers to gaining chunks of life to either turn on key cards or paying costs.

I have some personal affection for Soul Warden, since I've loved her since I was in middle school ripping Exodus packs. I do agree that lifegain works better as a BW identity when the payoff is that you use the life you gain to pay for effects. Heliod is pretty miserable, though. I could definitely see cutting him.
Green-multicolor / Field of the dead

This is the epitomy of the dreaded 5c "good stuff" deck, though with a unique spin. Golos is the center-piece of the deck, serving both as an enabler and a pay-off. It was often touted as the "deck to beat" in both iterations of the regular arena cube. Though not directly applicable to cube, Field of the dead has been banned in several formats. The recurring reasoning is its deterministic play pattern.

- There are few ways to interact with the deck outside of beating them down before they assemble "tron". I find 2 maindeckable land destruction cards and Field of ruin as a sideboard option.
- The deck cannibalizes on the other decks fixing. This may be a function of people not drafting fixing highly enough. It is alleviated by inclusion of MDFC's (the backside is a land with a unique name).
Proposed solutions: Including more land destruction. Alternatively eschewing Field of the dead in favor of other tutorable lands that give a long-term advantage. Including Ramunap Excavator and Crucible of worlds and a few Kaldheim CCDD lands as an alternative late game engine. (supplementing my favorite pet peeve, hypno toad)

This is another deck I love. I have a soft spot for Field of the Dead, and any time it's been legal I've played it. I'm one of those sickos who even enjoyed Field mirrors. In general, I think the card is much more palatable in cube where you can only get one Field and there is an actual cost to amassing enough lands to make sure the card is turned on. I also have several IRL friends who love nothing more in life than to draft 5c cube decks, and this is a way to let them have their fun with an actual archetype.

Blue Black Rogues/Mill
I don't find the requisite support for the mill cards in your list for it to be a reliable strategy. This is exacerbated by most colors having a way to capitalize on the milled cards (black recursive creatures, escape etc.) and even turning off your cards. I would rather have focused on self-mill to enable Thassa's Oracle and Jace, Wielder of mysteries. Emry, lurker of the lochis a good self-mill enabler which also gives blue a reason to care about artifacts.

This is the most questionable archetype, and the one I am most likely to cut. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I do enjoy self mill, and will focus on that more. I think shifting UB into artifacts with a self-mill subtheme might make sense.

Bx Demonic Pact


I had great fun trying to break this in the regular arena cube and I am sad to see you not include it in your list. I may have rose-tinted glasses about this card. At present there may not be enough support. With Strixhaven coming up we get Lorehold Command with one of the options being "sacrifice a permanent, then draw two cards". Future historic offerings may give us other ways to abuse the card.
Can you believe that Demonic Pact was originally in there, but I cut it because I thought I was the only one who liked the card? I'll probably bring it back, though I doubt I'll include Korvold due to it being three colors.

Individual cards:
Goblin Chainwhirler, Benalish Marshal and other overly color intensive cards. These, I feel, incentivize mono color drafting in a parasitic way. Anax, Hardened in the forge, which you already include is more versatile as it is pickable and playable outside of monored where it shines.

This is where we disagree. I think having a couple mono-color aggro decks in the cube is healthy. I found that you can have fun with them when drafting them in the Arena cube. I do think the CCC cards should be treated like gold cards in that they are only going to go into a smaller percentage of decks, but I think they're sweet in the same way that gold cards are sweet. You have to do a little more work, but if you're in that deck they're more likely to wheel to you later down the line.
Shepherd of the Flock is a sweet card with a plethora of interactions. It's most basic use is rescuing something from removal. A 3/1 also hits hard if you need to beat down. In standard it is being used to great effect to rebuy Showdown of the skalds. It can also rebuy MDFCs or creatures with ETBs. A great glue card in my opinion.

Yeah, Shepherd rules. Wait... (checks cube) I DON'T HAVE HIM IN THERE? I assumed he was in there because it was obvious that he should be. I'll definitely fix that.
Those are my thoughts.
Here is my work in progress and a comparison between our lists. I have been waffling between including powerful cards (mostly rares) that stand more on their own and trying to give the colors an identity and promoting synergies. I can flesh out my thoughts about design goals and card choices later, if you like.

Interesting! I'll be sure to give yours a draft or two and tell you what I think!
 
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In my mind this makes for more parasitic and "on-rails" drafting (sorry Trainmaster, but this term, though derogative, is well established).
I mean, the whole point of Rails is to keep a vehicle from straying from a desired course. It's hardly derogative, just not good Cube design ;).
 
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