Can you make it a may trigger?
General Print this Wizards! (So I can put it in my cube)
- Thread starter Chris Taylor
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Chris Taylor
Contributor
it can be a beeble weird for all I care, I think it'll work.
What I'm wondering is if he can be a 3/2 a la vithian renegades
What I'm wondering is if he can be a 3/2 a la vithian renegades
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I just figure while grey ogre is super embarassing, balduvian barbarians is a little less embarassing.
I dunno, maybe with all the 2/1 1 drops in cube he'd be better as riot devils?
Also yes, I know all the cards I just linked were red and the card we're discussing is green/white, but those were the vanilla guys who sprung to mind
I dunno, maybe with all the 2/1 1 drops in cube he'd be better as riot devils?
Also yes, I know all the cards I just linked were red and the card we're discussing is green/white, but those were the vanilla guys who sprung to mind
I don't know how you guys feel about this subforum, but I'd just like to note that, statistically speaking, discussion of custom cards has gone way up in volume since we implemented the new subforum. I know it's not perfect, but I think if gives you guys more room to grow.
some musings about green control that wotc would probably never print
Green Charm
Instant
Choose One — Green Charm deals 2 damage to each creature with flying; or target creature you control fights another target creature; or destroy target artifact or enchantment.
Reinforce 2—
hypothetical green counterspell
Instant
Counter target instant or artifact spell unless its controller pays. If that spell is countered this way, put it into on the bottom of its owner’s library instead of into that player’s graveyard.
Scry 1.
Kragma Riftsweeper
Creature — Minotaur Cleric
Flash, Undying
When Kragma Riftsweeper enters the battlefield, choose target face-up exiled card or card in a graveyard. Its owner puts it on the bottom of his or her library.
2/1
Regrowth Madness Thing
Sorcery
Return target creature or land card from your graveyard to your hand. Scry 1.
Cycling, Madness
Flashback
Selesnya Command
Instant
Choose two — Put a 4/4 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield; or destroy target artifact; or return up to two target land cards from your graveyard to your hand; or put target spell on top of its owner’s library.
edit: also
Redmand
Instant
Return target spell to its owner’s hand. Scry 2.
Flashback 4R
Green Charm
Instant
Choose One — Green Charm deals 2 damage to each creature with flying; or target creature you control fights another target creature; or destroy target artifact or enchantment.
Reinforce 2—
hypothetical green counterspell
Instant
Counter target instant or artifact spell unless its controller pays
. If that spell is countered this way, put it into on the bottom of its owner’s library instead of into that player’s graveyard.Scry 1.
Kragma Riftsweeper
Creature — Minotaur Cleric
Flash, Undying
When Kragma Riftsweeper enters the battlefield, choose target face-up exiled card or card in a graveyard. Its owner puts it on the bottom of his or her library.
2/1
Regrowth Madness Thing
Sorcery
Return target creature or land card from your graveyard to your hand. Scry 1.
Cycling
, Madness Flashback
Selesnya Command
Instant
Choose two — Put a 4/4 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield; or destroy target artifact; or return up to two target land cards from your graveyard to your hand; or put target spell on top of its owner’s library.
well, i wasn't actually worried about the volume of the discussion, but more about the quality of it and how separated it is from the regular cube discussion, which i think we'll just have to wait and see on
edit: also
Redmand
Instant
Return target spell to its owner’s hand. Scry 2.
Flashback 4R
some musings about green control that wotc would probably never print
Green Charm
Instant
Choose One — Green Charm deals 2 damage to each creature with flying; or target creature you control fights another target creature; or destroy target artifact or enchantment.
Reinforce 2—
Kragma Riftsweeper
Creature — Minotaur Cleric
Flash, Undying
When Kragma Riftsweeper enters the battlefield, choose target face-up exiled card or card in a graveyard. Its owner puts it on the bottom of his or her library.
2/1
Regrowth Madness Thing
Sorcery
Return target creature or land card from your graveyard to your hand. Scry 1.
Cycling
Flashback
Selesnya Command
Instant
Choose two — Put a 4/4 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield; or destroy target artifact; or return up to two target land cards from your graveyard to your hand; or put target spell on top of its owner’s library.
Redmand
Instant
Return target spell to its owner’s hand. Scry 2.
Flashback 4R
I could easily get behind all of these. Obviously with any kind of card, they would need to be play-tested to see if they were at the right costs, P/T etc. Like the command I'm pretty sure would have to be a 3/3 beast.
Good show!
Redmand seems super powerful. I like trying to move some counterspells into other colors, but I'm not sure how I feel about Memory Lapse in Selesnya colors.
There's also the inherent aspect of... if Wizards printed any of these we would accept them as changes / modifications to the color pie. As custom card designers, we don't really have that same sense of authority, so I think it's harder to break open the color pie without giving the player a strong visceral reaction that you've done something wrong.
There's also the inherent aspect of... if Wizards printed any of these we would accept them as changes / modifications to the color pie. As custom card designers, we don't really have that same sense of authority, so I think it's harder to break open the color pie without giving the player a strong visceral reaction that you've done something wrong.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Few things: This is a 5 mode charm! Holy balls! Justified or not, that's just a weird complicated spell. Squall/Prey Upon/Shatter/Demistify/Double BattlegrowthGreen Charm
Instant
Choose One — Green Charm deals 2 damage to each creature with flying; or target creature you control fights another target creature; or destroy target artifact or enchantment.
Reinforce 2—
Remember: Naturalize is a modal spell too. It's always super akward when one of your modes has modes. Let alone the ungrokkable cheaper reinforce cost for the random 3rd mode.
All that flavor and design nonsense aside, how do I feel about the actual card? I kinda like it. Prey Upon or something else is the beginning of something sweet already, I just don't think naturalize or squall are the ways to go with this.
I had prey upon/shatter in my cube for a while, and it made sense (Both cards really read smash the thing) but nobody really played it. Maybe a 3rd mode would be that difference?
My thought would be drop it to G1, take away the naturalize, the reinforce, and the squall, but make the last mode something nice and simple, maybe giant growth
This is WAAAAAAAY too complicated for what is essentially just Tel-Jilad Justice.hypothetical green counterspell
Instant
Counter target instant or artifact spell unless its controller pays
Scry 1.
Edit: Wow I actually didn't notice it countered instants. This thing makes my brain hurt! Why does it put things on the bottom? Why two halfs of common pairings? (instant and sorcery, artifact and enchantment)
Also not a huge fan of green cards that make green immitate blue (Nor the other way around)
This guy I like, mechanically. It's a little all over the place flavor wise (Why is it a minotaur anyways? Also cleric? There's like 10 mono green clerics)Kragma Riftsweeper
Creature — Minotaur Cleric
Flash, Undying
When Kragma Riftsweeper enters the battlefield, choose target face-up exiled card or card in a graveyard. Its owner puts it on the bottom of his or her library.
2/1
But undying, riftsweaper, flash, good CMC and PT ratios, I like it.
You won't find a bigger proponent of the fairness of regrowth than I, but this card still makes me nervous. GG1 for instant speed "draw 2 cards"? Probably too good.Regrowth Madness Thing
Sorcery
Return target creature or land card from your graveyard to your hand. Scry 1.
Cycling
Flashback
Maybe it'd be cleaner if it were worded like the "increasing" cycle from dark ascension? (Increasing Devotion)
Yeah I agree with jason here, memory lapse is not a green white thing, nor is a 4/4 memory lapse. That also doubles as viridian shaman. The commands were cool, and I know we love them, but they're super hard to design properly. (You'll notice the white one is just "Wrath 4! ways")Selesnya Command
Instant
Choose two — Put a 4/4 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield; or destroy target artifact; or return up to two target land cards from your graveyard to your hand; or put target spell on top of its owner’s library.
Like, it's a green white card, no? But the 4/4 flash shatter just feels green. The memory lapse is the only one that feels white, and even then, lapse of certainty was kinda the only thing even slightly related.
Redmand
Instant
Return target spell to its owner’s hand. Scry 2.
Flashback 4R
I like it, but honestly it can't have flashback
I know it's way worse, but the pushing wrath back for two turns off one card is super broken.It does feel a bit red though, the kinda "Just one more moment" feeling we get with final fortune and relentless assault
I think it'd be fine at R1 scry 2 no flashback. Remand is super duper strong.
This was much my thought as well. There's a billion factors affecting custom traffic anyways
(Like for example, my assignments are coming in, and it's far harder to justify 5 minutes to post one thing here than 2 hours to play some world of warcraft or Dota)
I like it, but honestly it can't have flashback
It does feel a bit red though, the kinda "Just one more moment" feeling we get with final fortune and relentless assault
I think it'd be fine at R1 scry 2 no flashback. Remand is super duper strong.
Flashback: you lose at the end of your next turn?
Hyper-modality was probably the worst thing about the custom card cube. Just reading the visual spoiler for a couple minutes gave me a headache.
I mean, Maro keeps saying that modal cards are for Spikes, who love to have as many options available to them as possible, so they can eke out every advantage to outplay their opponent. But if all of my cards have three or more modes, I'd probably just break down at some point from the overwhelming decision trees.
I suppose all-modal custom cubes are good for a certain subset of people, but.. not everyone is a pure Spike, ya know? I can already tell some of my playgroup leans pretty hard towards Timmy tendencies - RAWR giant Chameleon Colossus incoming! - and giving them cards with so many options wouldn't necessarily make them happier.
I suppose all-modal custom cubes are good for a certain subset of people, but.. not everyone is a pure Spike, ya know? I can already tell some of my playgroup leans pretty hard towards Timmy tendencies - RAWR giant Chameleon Colossus incoming! - and giving them cards with so many options wouldn't necessarily make them happier.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
People really don't like huge swings like that
Does anyone play final fortune in a non-combo context? (Platinum angel I guess?) Even if the card is worth it, if something goes wrong, you're fucked. People usually don't like taking that risk.The words "you lose" are powerful ones.
Yeah. That cube is super geared to a single audience: Super high power level, super high decision density, Super broken decks.
I'll bring up again that there's a 1 mana 3/1 with no downside in that cube. I think the idea was to bring everything up to the power level of grim monolith, as opposed to what we do
I don't even know if spikes love that much headache. Let's keep in mind that even something as simple as Lightning Bolt can be used skillfully.
People really don't like huge swings like that
The words "you lose" are powerful ones.
Yeah, but it'd give you some sweet stories. Surprise counter your spell so I can win next turn seems like a good use of that sort of lose the game shenanigans, although since it's flashback you'd need a discard outlet to get properly free. Might be awkwardly splashed into non-red decks at that point, which sucks some of the fun out of it though.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Oh jeez I didn't think the flashback was going to be free! No way man, deffinitly not.
people have it bad enough playing around tricks in your graveyard (thrill of the hunt), but a 0 mana counterspell? That's bonkers!
IMO, you can pretty well calculate weather flashing this card back will win or lose you the game. Maybe you can't always, but if you're not sure, are you really taking that risk?
Like there's a difference between "Well I win if he has anything but fog" and "Well, maybe the combat math checks out. I'll give it a shot"
some musings about green control that wotc would probably never print
Selesnya Command
Instant
Choose two — Put a 4/4 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield; or destroy target artifact; or return up to two target land cards from your graveyard to your hand; or put target spell on top of its owner’s library.
well, i wasn't actually worried about the volume of the discussion, but more about the quality of it and how separated it is from the regular cube discussion, which i think we'll just have to wait and see on
edit: also
Redmand
Instant
Return target spell to its owner’s hand. Scry 2.
Flashback 4R
Dig your command. I actually made a card very similar to your redmand that the salvation cube forum really loved and I think it won a card of the day thing too.
I believe it looked something like this
Instant
Return target spell or creature to it's owners hand.
Flashback
I'm not sure that's how I've put it or what I'd be happy with now either but I make a lot of remands.
For instance:
Avoidance
Instant (U)
Return target creature or spell to its owner's hand, its controller loses 2 life.
"No of course it can wait till tomorrow; I'm sure it won't get any worse..."
(used to be 3 life mates)
I like the idea of spreading out counterspells, and white is the place to do it because of lapse of certainty and mana tithe. What about kind of combining them?
White counterspell
2W
Counter target spell. If it's countered this way put on top of owners library.
Cycling 2W. If you cycle white counterspell, you may counter target spell unless the owner pays 1.
?
White counterspell
2W
Counter target spell. If it's countered this way put on top of owners library.
Cycling 2W. If you cycle white counterspell, you may counter target spell unless the owner pays 1.
?
im a bit sick at the moment so if i answer more like a moron than usual im blaming it on that
how about just cutting the reinforce? has a squall effect by itself ever been playable in anyone's cube? it seems like one of the stronger green control effects but it almost certainly needs to be on a charm. i do agree though that naturalize seems a bit awkward.
hypothetical green counterspell:
instant and artifact because those are green's 2 least favorite permanent types. puts on the bottom because i wanted something uniquely green about it, a reason for it to not just be a strictly worse manaleak
kragma riftsweeper:
flavor because minotaur + cleric tribal in my current cube are both in green
selesnya command:
yeah perhaps too green. i do feel like 4/4 flash is white too, i mean just look at advent of the wurm, but yeah definitely too green
redmand:
yeah probably too good with flashback, hmm. remand draws you a card though, and this is mostly worse except being able to counter uncounterable spells
also yeah you're right about the 2nd paragraph
well i've tried to avoid being as offensive about it in my designs as the cube you are speaking of, i definitely agree that too much can be a serious problem.
i definitely don't think an all-modal cube is good. modality feels good and fun partially because it is special.
ok here's an card from my actual cube that can be played in a green control deck maybe
Pit Fight // Manamorphose w/ Fuse
green charm:
how about just cutting the reinforce? has a squall effect by itself ever been playable in anyone's cube? it seems like one of the stronger green control effects but it almost certainly needs to be on a charm. i do agree though that naturalize seems a bit awkward.
hypothetical green counterspell:
instant and artifact because those are green's 2 least favorite permanent types. puts on the bottom because i wanted something uniquely green about it, a reason for it to not just be a strictly worse manaleak
kragma riftsweeper:
flavor because minotaur + cleric tribal in my current cube are both in green
selesnya command:
yeah perhaps too green. i do feel like 4/4 flash is white too, i mean just look at advent of the wurm, but yeah definitely too green
redmand:
yeah probably too good with flashback, hmm. remand draws you a card though, and this is mostly worse except being able to counter uncounterable spells
well, the idea for the selesnya command counterspell mode was the primal command noncreature permanent mode + lapse of certainty. redmand is probably too good
also yeah you're right about the 2nd paragraph
these aren't in my cube (except the kragma riftsweeper), i'm just thinking out loud for future projects. i think you're definitely right about it being too modal.
well i've tried to avoid being as offensive about it in my designs as the cube you are speaking of, i definitely agree that too much can be a serious problem.
i definitely don't think an all-modal cube is good. modality feels good and fun partially because it is special.
ok here's an card from my actual cube that can be played in a green control deck maybe
Pit Fight // Manamorphose w/ Fuse
Chris Taylor
Contributor
cutting the reinforce should probably be okay. I'm still a little wary, but I'm slowly learning your playgroup has higher tolerances for this kind of thing than mine does
Honestly I think it could be a hard counter if it's so specific. Most non-blue counters are anyways. (pyroblast, guttural response, etc)
I don't really consider advent of the wurm much of a white card
White kinda does flash, but not too often and usually on smaller guys.Of course it's bonkers! That's what enamoured me to it as a design! If red gets easy counterspells, I'd want it to have some catastrophic drawback somewhere, because that's kinda how red needs to function.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
hypothetical green counterspell the sequel
Instant
Put target artifact or instant spell on the bottom of its owner's library. Scry 1.