General PWs to Cut and UR spells to run

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Which PWs have you guys cut from your cubes in the last two years?

Are there any cool techy UR spells to run these days?

Yes, these topics are unrelated.
 
Cut walkers:


Sorin became Ob Nixilis to fit in more decks, but I didn't really have a problem with his power level. The rest were either too good (speth, venser), weren't fun (kiora) or didn't do enough (domri). I've tried to champion narrow planeswalkers that are good at what they do (domri, fork-chandra, tezzeret) but they just keep tabling infinitely and even in their 'working' archetypes my players are low on some of them. My favorite cube-walkers remain old BW sorin and GGGarruk (because hell yeah).

My UR section is all old hat and nothing special- the upsides of turn//burn outweigh those of brutal expulsion IMO.

 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
You mean Specifically UR Multicolored, or sweet blue and/or red spells?

Planeswalkers I've cut in ever:

: I like him, and I think Goldmane is a bit too good at just being an anthem and little else, but the +1 is really mediocre without a dedicated "building tall" deck. It feels weird to say this about a walker, but he felt more like a card you'd get for being white, rather than something that drew you into white. I did have both in FWIW

: I swapped to Nissa, Worldwaker because triple green was frustrating for deck construction, and not really a color combination I really felt wanted rewarding. Nissa is typically better in the short term (Making "better" tokens, but unable to be a draw engine) while also being limited in scope, as well as ramping. My cubes ramp decks are becoming less about accellerating a strong threat out that wins the game on its own, and more about speeding up while still affecting the board, and taking over as a higher curve midrange deck from there (Less Dark Ritual, more wall of roots)

: Xenagos, the Reveler demands far less of you for basically more reward.

: I really wanted to love this guy, but the promise of turning gravecrawlers into 5/5 fliers was typically an empty one, as the deck tended to be far more agressive than I'd expected, leaving something like Falkenrath Aristocrat better serving the purpose of a curve topper for that deck. Oddly enough this card would be way better as a black/green walker, as then the 5 mana wouldn't matter as much, while still offering a few options of creatures to dragon-ify, like Strangleroot Geist, Kitchen Finks, and Nest Invader's tokens

: I go back and forth on weather him or Jace, the Mind Sculptor is the better choice for my environment, or weather I want both. I think I've landed on just Jace TMS. I like this guy though, and wouldn't fault anyone for wanting him. That +1 is surprisingly unique and effective.

: I love the ability for a control deck to play a finisher they cast pre-wrath, helps them out along the way (unlike say, Chimeric Idol or something), and mops up afterward. The problem is that he's just a little too effective at what he does. If you're behind, the +2 is usually 2-3 turns worth of time if you have other things in play, and 1-2 things if Gideon is all you have on board. This can be compensated against by a singular tall threat (Since I usually accomplished this by double strike, the damage would usually be enough to break through Gideon in one turn) but his -2 neatly stops that approach cold. Thankfully Gideon, Ally of Zendikar answers my love of a wrath dodging win condition while also being a strong card for more aggressive strategies.

: Card is good, but the useless +1 and Helix -2 tend to him preforming better in a control deck, and I don't really want to give my UW players more incentive to steal Lightning Bolts from the red drafters. Even a card like this never made a dedicated straight RW control deck happen, so I felt it was sending the wrong message and cut it.

: An effect this marginal does not need to be this vulnerable or cost this much. Venser is a harder to cast and easy to remove Conjurer's Closet. I know we all love the days when Crystal Shard was a good card (Which was probably banking more on memories of Astral Slide than anything), but this is not the way to recapture the Magic of your youth.

: Much like venser, this card might have been okay as just an enchantment. I like the icy manipulator-like ability to control a single threat, and drawing cards is nice, but this card just dies too easily. Unlike venser (Who I think just shouldn't be able to die to combat damage), I think loyalty on this planeswalker is an interesting idea for an old concept, as playing more creatures to get your best creature back to doing things is an interesting game both players can contribute to, with back and forths on each side, and the Kiora player can take advantage of this race to get the +1 to stop doing things by wrathing (You can find a similar nice deal on Tamiyo, who I think does it a bit better). She doesn't play a lot like a blue green card mind, more like something a control deck would twist their mana to play, but the beginnings of an idea are there.
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
I swear I'm not crazy... I just like to try everything!



Vengeant: too strong
Ashiok: really strong against green (akin to Bribery)
Domri: narrow, and most RG decks weren't mono-creatures
Elspeth: way too strong
Relentless: not overly powerful, but 2/2's for 0 is annoying
Wildspeaker: just about the right power level, but enabled good stuff more than anything
Primal Hunter: god no what was I thinking
Gideon: I like my games to take less than an hour
Architect of Thought: really strong against aggro
Karn: not actually that overpowered, just kinda boring
Kiora: slows games down
Koth: one dimensional
Liliana: incredibly strong
Nicol Bolas: lackluster
Sarkhan: narrow, wasn't what most BR decks were looking for
Sorin: plus to make tokens is pretty nuts
Venser: narrow, when he worked he worked, but a lot of UW decks weren't blink-focused
Xenagos: see Relentless
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Yeah I've got these two:



I dunno, I like mr bolty-rampy-tappy-survives wildfire over here. Gelectrode is mostly a concession to my drafters, but prowess has been sweet, so maybe it's an awesome card I've never fully had the support for
 
I would say "aww, don't cut Ral!" but instead I offer you these:

I have personally enjoyed Frostburn Weird and Dack's Duplicate; the others are all speculation.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I'm just in general trying to cut PWs, especially as I bring in flipwalkers. Ral is fine, but he's pretty basic.
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I couldn't think of which U/R gold cards I run, so I checked my list. I don't run any. The closest things I run are Fire//Ice and Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest. I like Gelectrode, though. And the random UR value spells are cool if you need to ensure that those cards have a good chance of hitting the control player. Truth be told, I'd probably run Turn//Burn before any of the golds though, I don't think these types of cards hitting specific players is very important. Keranos is really the other "exciting" card in these colors, but he's kind of like a Planeswalker you can't attack so I'm not sure if that's what you want.
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
The U/R slot is pretty sparse for higher power formats. I was looking for powerful nudge cards in the list I submitted, and still ended up including proc. bolt.

However, I've heard good things about duplicate, so maybe that is a choice?
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I recently cut Jace, the Living Guildpact. Unsummon is better in my cube then most others. His +1 does work in my list. He's probably better in my environment then most cubes that aren't intentionally very low powered. He still wasn't interesting.

I cut Ajani Goldmane. He's still cool, I'm just giving the other 4 mana white Ajani a shot. I'm play him again.

I cut Elspeth Tirel. If I cut Elspeth, Sun's Champion, I'd play her again. She's got the most play of any Elspeth (which is a pretty low bar, but still).

I'm running 14 planeswalkers at this time, two of which might be cut soon, one of which is an experimental custom which could certainly be cut.

Some of them like Jace Beleren are just more interesting versions of sorceries, so they don't seem offensive because they don't "play like a planeswalker".

Some of them like Daretti have interesting functions and don't seem offensive because cards in other types do that too and you can always just attack it.

Really, the ones that feel offensive are those that repeatably do things that don't feel like they should be repeatable at a single upfront cost: Removal or Creatures. If these effects are costed even slightest bit too low, it feels wrong and games can get shitty fast.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Dak's Duplicate is something I can vouch for. Hastey Clone might have been worth it anyways, (especially if titans are available) but dethrone is suprisingly relavant, giving your creature the edge it needs to beat the origional some of the time.
 

Dom Harvey

Contributor
UR has a bunch of really fun and powerful cards that don't offer anything unique - Fire // Ice, Izzet Charm, Electrolyze, Prophetic Bolt, etc

Dack's Duplicate is kinda great (see upcoming post in 3-0 decks thread) but again, there are so many clones in blue that you don't *need* a gold one
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I think the optimal enviornment for Dak Fayden would include 0 artifacts. Even if you're just stealing a signet, that's an insane beating
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I used to be very anti-Dack, but I'm kind of coming around. Especially with all the Delve floating around, I can see some cool interactions.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
There's no doubt that in the right setting Dack provides a lot of value, and I've mostly seen him in Vintage Super League, but he never really "ruined" games.
Also, I've never seen someone actually cost Steal Artifact, so it might not be the most useful comparison.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Yo, change of topic, what sexy Dimir spells are you running? Is that Impluse/graveyard with flashback thing playable?
 
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