Rasmus Riptide Cube (360 Unpowered)
- Thread starter Rasmus Källqvist
- Start date
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Different people play limited for different reasons. Some people enjoy making decisions on the fly, adapting their strategy to what is and isn't coming to your seat in the draft, while others enjoy it because unlike constructed, their deck is more of a tatterkite, a strange machine of disparate parts that barely works but can preform admirably under the circumstances.
I think the latter people are crazy
Enough of my players seem to have poked at me to motivate me to actually reassemble the cube and get a draft going. I have a new found love for very mechanically oriented color parings, and will follow someone here's advice (can't remember who!) who suggested we all should run less gold colors. Still, having guild-themes is a really nice way to have focus in the cube. I'm not going to worry about the enemy colors just yet.
The idea isn't that the following archetypes are the definite thing you can draft, but only what I'm focusing on in terms of card inclusions to a degree. White will still have sweepers, black might still have a single combat trick etc.
What should I do with my GW pair?
The idea isn't that the following archetypes are the definite thing you can draft, but only what I'm focusing on in terms of card inclusions to a degree. White will still have sweepers, black might still have a single combat trick etc.
- UW - Fish Tempo, inspired a bit from Grillo. Basically prowess and (a few) heroic creatures that you protect with blue counters and white protection from color effects.
- UB - Graveyard Control, pretty old school (I think?) removal and counterspells. I'm hoping to be able to add some ways to use black recur to grind out games for the control decks.
- BR- Aristocrat Aggro, burn and little quick dudes. The riptide zombie-deck in RB, with goblin bombardment and a few token spells in red. I'm going to try running a very few select token spells in white, probably one or two, to help solidify red's token role.
- RG - Fireball Ramp, another idea I got from Grillo. I don't think I ever saw any big ramp decks ever in my cube drafts so I want to add that again. Green gets some tools for generating stupid big amounts of mana, and then you can fireball people. Might be a kind of uninteractive game plan, but I'm trying it. I run a fairly high power level.
- WG - Big Kid Aggro?
What should I do with my GW pair?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
+1/+1 counters
I think I might let my drafters invent the GW deck (since it usually builds itself in terms of being aggro-ramp) and just sprinkle it with some cards like wolfir avenger and similair good aggro 3-drops. I might try out the enchantress theme now that we started the subtheme-thread! But I'd rather do that as just a subtheme since I've up until right now haven't really focused on giving guilds their identities just by what they do instead of it being what I felt as a gimmick.
I feel like me running enchantment themes are more motivated when I've done the hard part of taking the more broad mechanical approach first. I think running a good couple of those subthemes can give a ton of depth though! Like auras/enchantments and maybe +1/+1 counters with like 2 or 3 actual payoff cards and a bunch of subtle enablers.
I feel like me running enchantment themes are more motivated when I've done the hard part of taking the more broad mechanical approach first. I think running a good couple of those subthemes can give a ton of depth though! Like auras/enchantments and maybe +1/+1 counters with like 2 or 3 actual payoff cards and a bunch of subtle enablers.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
How about a G/W deck averaging around 2-3cc that uses collected company and rally the ancestors as a sort of value aggro-combo deck?
I could try that out. I have pod still in the cube. There's of course a slight danger in clogging things up, but running a few more pod-friendly creatures in green and white to help solidify the theme?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I don't think thats really a pod deck because you want it to be a creature focused deck that dosen't deviate far beyond 3cc. I would imagine it being able to dip into red or black for sac. outlets and playing an attrition value aggro game with the threat of comboing out with anafenza, kin-tree spirit, sac outlet, and either kitchen finks or murderous redcap. It even has toolbox potential with evolutionary leap back up by den protector and eternal witness to get back rally if it gets milled, or whatever else you want.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/36919
New Update!
With Origins out I reassembled my cube. The draft I did past Saturday had a Thalia Red Deck Wins emerge as 3-0, with only me on Esper being the other non-green drafter (That's six X/g decks in a 8 man pod!). This got me thinking about how my fixing is affecting my format, and as people stated here it's not really the problem. I followed the advise to cut back on the multicolor section and did so pretty througouhly by limiting myself to two cards for almost all the guilds. The other thing I did was looking through my green section and ended up cutting some of the abundant selection of ramp-spells (that also fixes) and revamped my green 5-drop section completely.
Out (partially)
In (partially)
What I'd like to move towards is a format where you can play a bunch of focused well tuned decks that splash because they want a specific thing for their game plan, and get away less from landing a single etb-creature to stabilise to force people to participate in every turn during a match.
People haven't been drafting really big ramp decks or reanimator, which I think is partially due to the abundance of easily splashed value-creatures at lower cmc. I'm starting to feel like I want to deliberately make my 5-drops a bit lackluster, so that you have to go big to the top shelf in order to land a really impressive fatty. Until now I think green might've been the biggest culprit in this department which is why I revamped their 5 cmc section.
Preferably I'd want there to be a lot more dedicated aggro and control decks and just occasional jund-style midrange decks.
Summary in going forward
New Update!
With Origins out I reassembled my cube. The draft I did past Saturday had a Thalia Red Deck Wins emerge as 3-0, with only me on Esper being the other non-green drafter (That's six X/g decks in a 8 man pod!). This got me thinking about how my fixing is affecting my format, and as people stated here it's not really the problem. I followed the advise to cut back on the multicolor section and did so pretty througouhly by limiting myself to two cards for almost all the guilds. The other thing I did was looking through my green section and ended up cutting some of the abundant selection of ramp-spells (that also fixes) and revamped my green 5-drop section completely.
Out (partially)
In (partially)
What I'd like to move towards is a format where you can play a bunch of focused well tuned decks that splash because they want a specific thing for their game plan, and get away less from landing a single etb-creature to stabilise to force people to participate in every turn during a match.
People haven't been drafting really big ramp decks or reanimator, which I think is partially due to the abundance of easily splashed value-creatures at lower cmc. I'm starting to feel like I want to deliberately make my 5-drops a bit lackluster, so that you have to go big to the top shelf in order to land a really impressive fatty. Until now I think green might've been the biggest culprit in this department which is why I revamped their 5 cmc section.
Preferably I'd want there to be a lot more dedicated aggro and control decks and just occasional jund-style midrange decks.
Summary in going forward
- Keep promoting aggro decks
- Also promote go-very-big decks by cutting out some of the value 4 and 5 drops
- Keep green color fixing and the cards in he gold section to a low amount
- See how a devotion subtheme helps reward decks with fewer colors
I'd love it if people gave the cube a spin (link here). I'm trying to get a grasp on the following questions:
- Is my fixing to good, where it is a trivial cost to splash for powerful cards?
- Do my color section lack direction, does there seem to be an in-color lack of theme?
- Is there a lack of stabilizing cards for slower decks vs the aggro decks?
- Am I missing some awesome card that I should know about?
Mono Black from CubeTutor.com
| | | | | |
| |||||
| |||||
And I'll just move the deck discussion here b/c it's easier to keep track of + continue convo
If you go mono-colored, you usually want to have some sort of payoff in exchange for sticking for one color. Mono-Blue can poop out dudes with Master of Waves, big beatstick with Thassa. Mono-R just overwhelms with damage + burn spells, etc. Sac Aggro is cool, but I don't think there's enough reach there unless you really push the early aggro drops. The bigger black cards higher in the curve don't really jive all that well with early sac-aggro support. Like, there's no real black card that I saw and went yeah, this is the perfect sac card. You might want to try out Priest of the Blood Rite, seems like it would fit well there.
You could extend sac-aggro to BR and include something like Bump in the Night in your multicolored. That's part of what makes Mono-R so effective; you just drop many small threats and push through a ton of early damage and your reach is burn later once big threats have plopped down.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I did a bunch of drafts on the train, so they annoyingly have no names, but I enjoyed the drafts.
This time I just drafted the cube; its been a while since I drafted a mana base like this, so it took a little getting used. All of my decks ended up being three colors, as I didn't see an advantage in going two colors.
The main difference for me was that I didn't really have to think about fixing during the drafts. With the penny cube, you have to think of the type of fixing that you're grabbing and how it fits into your deck. Here all of the fixing feels very ubiquitous, which was a very different experience.
The only deck type that I felt I had to be aware of fixing was when drafting aggro. This was because I felt that I needed to go into three colors to get the denstity of effects I wanted. With the midrange/control decks, I felt like the fixing was a luxury enabling me to splash bombs, while with aggro it was a necessity. I was really happy with the aggro decks I ended up with though.
There are a few bomby top end finishers that kept on pulling me into a third color: the two remaining titans, and deadeye navigator. Myr battlesphere is another card, I feel, that pulls you into a sort of big mana deck, and is kind of a lazy pick.
Lingering souls kept on pulling me into a third color. I kept on going R/W with various army buffs, and than lingering souls would come along and suddenly I was in black.
I also was really pleased with whirler rogue and goblin bushwhacker. Whirler Rogue instantly made all of the other artifacts higher value picks for me, as there is quite a few high impact threats that it helps.
With all of the token makers in white, combined with blood artist and goblin bombardment, goblin bushwhacker felt like it was the missing piece of a brutal damage engine. Cut dualcaster mage for goblin sharpshooter maybe?
I think at a minimum you want to cut those few top end cards.
You could also add more dynamic ramp elements. I would cut cultivate for flip nissa. I don't like either cultivate or kodama's reach for their explosiveness, linearity of play, and ease of color fixing. Nissa is just a much better and more interesting card; but if you don't own one or don't wish to proxy her, I would rather go x2 harrow than a cultivate/harrow split. Harrow is just a much more interesting card that interacts with other parts of the cube. Adding in a Titania and sylvan safekeeper also seems fun, seeing as you already have loam.
reckless abandon is probably the worst card in the cube.
Now here is a crazy idea, but one that seems really fun to me. With the innistrad theme cube (which has similar fixing to this) after a while I realized the cube was filled with de facto multi-color cards. Because the fixing was so good, certain three color combinations just fit naturally together.
Why not embrace this? Maybe you should be thinking less in terms of color pairs, and more in terms of wedges and shards. Come up with a pair of themes for each of those, and structure the cube around that. You could even go the extra distance, take the multi-color section, and rebuild it into a 20-30 card section devoted to powerful three color nudge cards. Your fixing is good enough to support it, this would add some more structure, and it seems to be the natural direction the fixing is taking the cube anyways.
This time I just drafted the cube; its been a while since I drafted a mana base like this, so it took a little getting used. All of my decks ended up being three colors, as I didn't see an advantage in going two colors.
The main difference for me was that I didn't really have to think about fixing during the drafts. With the penny cube, you have to think of the type of fixing that you're grabbing and how it fits into your deck. Here all of the fixing feels very ubiquitous, which was a very different experience.
The only deck type that I felt I had to be aware of fixing was when drafting aggro. This was because I felt that I needed to go into three colors to get the denstity of effects I wanted. With the midrange/control decks, I felt like the fixing was a luxury enabling me to splash bombs, while with aggro it was a necessity. I was really happy with the aggro decks I ended up with though.
There are a few bomby top end finishers that kept on pulling me into a third color: the two remaining titans, and deadeye navigator. Myr battlesphere is another card, I feel, that pulls you into a sort of big mana deck, and is kind of a lazy pick.
Lingering souls kept on pulling me into a third color. I kept on going R/W with various army buffs, and than lingering souls would come along and suddenly I was in black.
I also was really pleased with whirler rogue and goblin bushwhacker. Whirler Rogue instantly made all of the other artifacts higher value picks for me, as there is quite a few high impact threats that it helps.
With all of the token makers in white, combined with blood artist and goblin bombardment, goblin bushwhacker felt like it was the missing piece of a brutal damage engine. Cut dualcaster mage for goblin sharpshooter maybe?
I think at a minimum you want to cut those few top end cards.
You could also add more dynamic ramp elements. I would cut cultivate for flip nissa. I don't like either cultivate or kodama's reach for their explosiveness, linearity of play, and ease of color fixing. Nissa is just a much better and more interesting card; but if you don't own one or don't wish to proxy her, I would rather go x2 harrow than a cultivate/harrow split. Harrow is just a much more interesting card that interacts with other parts of the cube. Adding in a Titania and sylvan safekeeper also seems fun, seeing as you already have loam.
reckless abandon is probably the worst card in the cube.
Now here is a crazy idea, but one that seems really fun to me. With the innistrad theme cube (which has similar fixing to this) after a while I realized the cube was filled with de facto multi-color cards. Because the fixing was so good, certain three color combinations just fit naturally together.
Why not embrace this? Maybe you should be thinking less in terms of color pairs, and more in terms of wedges and shards. Come up with a pair of themes for each of those, and structure the cube around that. You could even go the extra distance, take the multi-color section, and rebuild it into a 20-30 card section devoted to powerful three color nudge cards. Your fixing is good enough to support it, this would add some more structure, and it seems to be the natural direction the fixing is taking the cube anyways.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Collateral Damage is better than Reckless Abandon I think if you want to keep that effect.
I'm happy seeing some more drafts, thanks all!
I think that's a very good point. I've added themes and by the looks of it people drafting the cube can sort of sense it, but your right in that I haven't been consistent with the themes throughout the curve. I'm feeling like it would probably be a good idea to pinpoint a (mechanical) theme in each color and try to make that really apparent, and sort of let the guild be a cross-over of these themes? Black could get a sac-oriented attrition, so that they grind out matches with graveyard recursion and interesting (and more!) sac effects?
I actually added that at first but got convinced that it was just not-lightning bolt so I added reckless instead, but maybe it's just way too clunky. I like it as a red sac outlet, but having it instant speed gives you a lot more play to it!
I've been a fan of the 3-color cubes I've seen here on the forums and it would seem like the 3-color decks in my drafts is a combination of meta and preference (I got asked about atleast a Temur card at the start of last draft), so this actually sounds really nice!
I started playing in a gold block as well, so embracing it might be the right direction to go (Both for the sake of myself as well as the cube). That way I can actually make sure there are proper identities and draft signals. Thank you a lot for the insightful commentary, there's a bunch of little technical details I didn't really notice so its nice to have it highlighted for you.
I'll go dig a bit in some of those set-analysis articles and the 3-color threads here on Riptide and see if I can't get some ideas for what I want to do.
I think that's a very good point. I've added themes and by the looks of it people drafting the cube can sort of sense it, but your right in that I haven't been consistent with the themes throughout the curve. I'm feeling like it would probably be a good idea to pinpoint a (mechanical) theme in each color and try to make that really apparent, and sort of let the guild be a cross-over of these themes? Black could get a sac-oriented attrition, so that they grind out matches with graveyard recursion and interesting (and more!) sac effects?
I actually added that at first but got convinced that it was just not-lightning bolt so I added reckless instead, but maybe it's just way too clunky. I like it as a red sac outlet, but having it instant speed gives you a lot more play to it!
I've been a fan of the 3-color cubes I've seen here on the forums and it would seem like the 3-color decks in my drafts is a combination of meta and preference (I got asked about atleast a Temur card at the start of last draft), so this actually sounds really nice!
I started playing in a gold block as well, so embracing it might be the right direction to go (Both for the sake of myself as well as the cube). That way I can actually make sure there are proper identities and draft signals. Thank you a lot for the insightful commentary, there's a bunch of little technical details I didn't really notice so its nice to have it highlighted for you.
I'll go dig a bit in some of those set-analysis articles and the 3-color threads here on Riptide and see if I can't get some ideas for what I want to do.
I've been having thoughts around these lines lately, to be honest - my previous patch included a few more multipurpose gold cards (four-ish per guild instead of three) to hold players to one splash instead of two. I haven't drafted since so I don't have data, but I think that it's going to lead to more integrated 3c decks and fewer two-color-two-splash ones. Here's my drafts of your cube:
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I think if I wanted a reckless abandon style card, it'd be bone splinters (So I'd probably make a custom red one that does 13 to something 
)
Maybe Fiery Conclusion? I'm thinking this is more the "Trigger one of my death trigger guys" style sac outlets rather than the "Control magic is not resolving" style sac outlets like goblin bombardment
Also, RE: Lingering Souls kinda being a 3 color card, damnit man how do you keep saying what my subconcious was thinking?
I've always noticed this, but usually in the Esper or Abzan direction rather than RW Tokens.
Not sure what I want to do about that though. I kinda have trouble getting people to enjoy black white anyways (Unless it's some insanely midrange contraption with baneslayer and Priest of the blood rite and Gideon Jura etc etc etc)
)Maybe Fiery Conclusion? I'm thinking this is more the "Trigger one of my death trigger guys" style sac outlets rather than the "Control magic is not resolving" style sac outlets like goblin bombardment
Also, RE: Lingering Souls kinda being a 3 color card, damnit man how do you keep saying what my subconcious was thinking?
I've always noticed this, but usually in the Esper or Abzan direction rather than RW Tokens.
Not sure what I want to do about that though. I kinda have trouble getting people to enjoy black white anyways (Unless it's some insanely midrange contraption with baneslayer and Priest of the blood rite and Gideon Jura etc etc etc)
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Because the innistrad theme cube has such a density of flashback cards, its actually really common to see a three or even four color deck, whose third and fourth color is just there really to flashback the reverse end of a card.
Those cards were part of the original III set to give color pair structure, but when you have fixing as good as multiple shocks and fetches, suddenly they become an incentive to go into a three or even four color deck.
I'm not sure what to think about it either. I know I was starting to get tired of it, as it really started to draw away from the experience of color pairs* and more towards these three/fourish color decks, some of which were always disportionately represented. BUG, for example.
*When I made that cube though, I wasn't thinking in terms of color pairs or wedge/shards. I was just sort of sprinkling themes around the cube and trying to use build arounds to create structure--the main reason I wanted fetches was to add shuffle effects and cards to the graveyard. I didn't really have a sense of how it would impact the way people built decks, and certainly not that the flashback cards (which I didn't slot into my 30 card multi-color section) would be such a incentive for people to build 3 color decks.
Those cards were part of the original III set to give color pair structure, but when you have fixing as good as multiple shocks and fetches, suddenly they become an incentive to go into a three or even four color deck.
I'm not sure what to think about it either. I know I was starting to get tired of it, as it really started to draw away from the experience of color pairs* and more towards these three/fourish color decks, some of which were always disportionately represented. BUG, for example.
*When I made that cube though, I wasn't thinking in terms of color pairs or wedge/shards. I was just sort of sprinkling themes around the cube and trying to use build arounds to create structure--the main reason I wanted fetches was to add shuffle effects and cards to the graveyard. I didn't really have a sense of how it would impact the way people built decks, and certainly not that the flashback cards (which I didn't slot into my 30 card multi-color section) would be such a incentive for people to build 3 color decks.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Do you find that this is an issue with anything other than lingering souls?
recurring nekrataals
So I'm mostly posting ideas now and getting down and dirty with building and testing, but I did play around with an idea for black to get an identity throughout the curve that I think sounds nice given a power level suitable but might be hard to pull of otherwise.
I want people to sacrifice creates in black, but the slower decks aren't really interested in using it as a tempo play (cards like innocent blood with bloodsoaked champion) but wants to grind out cars advantage.
Sacrificing gives an outlet to get creatures from the battlefield into the graveyard. This can be done with any value sac outlets like barter in blood[/b] or
So I'm mostly posting ideas now and getting down and dirty with building and testing, but I did play around with an idea for black to get an identity throughout the curve that I think sounds nice given a power level suitable but might be hard to pull of otherwise.
I want people to sacrifice creates in black, but the slower decks aren't really interested in using it as a tempo play (cards like innocent blood with bloodsoaked champion) but wants to grind out cars advantage.
Sacrificing gives an outlet to get creatures from the battlefield into the graveyard. This can be done with any value sac outlets like barter in blood[/b] or
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Well, Shriekmaw and Bone Shredder as you mention are two of the strongest ones: Being able to be played cheaply is a huge benifit to a more midrangey, 4 drop kind of playstyle.
The other two I run areNekk Nekraa Nekrataal, who really has stood the test of time, and Skinrender, who's drawback is very real, but still operates well because of the whole being a zombie and faster clock. There's also Gilt-Leaf Winnower, who leans a little more towards the creature than the ETB value, most of the time.
Other options include:
To that end, Birthing Pod has actually been really strong in propping up black midrange/control for me, as no deck wants access to a wide viraty of creature based 2 for 1s more.
I can't actually see your cubetutor list at the moment to offer specific suggustions (Both of the Page 1 links appear to be broken), but about your 3 specific questions:
How many and what kinds of etb creatures you run in the whole cube
I don't think this is a huge concern until your curve starts looking bad. It's not like aggro decks won't run bone shredder, after all.
What cards you'd run to recur the yarded creatures
Volrath's Stronghold is a really strong one (Proceed with Caution), and a great friend to Primeval Titan, and I've also heard good things about Unburial Rites. Phyrexian Reclamation is also strong, and provides incentive to draft a bit of lifegain, like Eric has had with the "All in on Vault of the Archangel ULD" deck.
Lastly there's Necromancy, which I feel is the perfect cost to be aggressive enough, the instant speed can be backbreaking but carries a real weight, and hitting either graveyard is key. I'd recommend it despite the horrible wording.
I'm also trying Diabolic Servitude, but nobody's drafted it yet. (Actually it's been a while. It might need to be cut)
What cards to cut (like removal) to incentives going into this strategy (no one will run it if it's suboptimal in comparison to doom blade decks)
This is where I'd need a better look at your cube list to judge. Black does a million different things pretty well, so giving it a bit of focus can help. Doom Blades make for good cuts because most of the ETB guys you'd want to add will be removing creatures anyways, but my main target would be black's mediocre draw spells: Night's Whisper, Sign in Blood, Read the Bones, hell even Demonic Tutor aren't really that necessary to the black control deck, or even the black midrange deck.
The other two I run are
Other options include:
- Big Game Hunter, who I worry about the restricted targeting and irrelevant body
- Fleshbag Marauder, who kind of counts. He's good, he's just less for what you describe, since in a control deck he'll play out like cruel edict
- Faceless Butcher, who sadly has not aged very well
- Nightshade Assassin, who is predicated rather heavily on being monoblack
- Predatory Nightstalker, a little less effective if you have tokens or undying type creatures
- Massacre Wurm (Again, amazing card, just kidna doesn't count)
- Overseer of the Damned (I always wanted to try this guy)
To that end, Birthing Pod has actually been really strong in propping up black midrange/control for me, as no deck wants access to a wide viraty of creature based 2 for 1s more.
I can't actually see your cubetutor list at the moment to offer specific suggustions (Both of the Page 1 links appear to be broken), but about your 3 specific questions:
How many and what kinds of etb creatures you run in the whole cube
I don't think this is a huge concern until your curve starts looking bad. It's not like aggro decks won't run bone shredder, after all.
What cards you'd run to recur the yarded creatures
Volrath's Stronghold is a really strong one (Proceed with Caution), and a great friend to Primeval Titan, and I've also heard good things about Unburial Rites. Phyrexian Reclamation is also strong, and provides incentive to draft a bit of lifegain, like Eric has had with the "All in on Vault of the Archangel ULD" deck.
Lastly there's Necromancy, which I feel is the perfect cost to be aggressive enough, the instant speed can be backbreaking but carries a real weight, and hitting either graveyard is key. I'd recommend it despite the horrible wording.
I'm also trying Diabolic Servitude, but nobody's drafted it yet. (Actually it's been a while. It might need to be cut)
What cards to cut (like removal) to incentives going into this strategy (no one will run it if it's suboptimal in comparison to doom blade decks)
This is where I'd need a better look at your cube list to judge. Black does a million different things pretty well, so giving it a bit of focus can help. Doom Blades make for good cuts because most of the ETB guys you'd want to add will be removing creatures anyways, but my main target would be black's mediocre draw spells: Night's Whisper, Sign in Blood, Read the Bones, hell even Demonic Tutor aren't really that necessary to the black control deck, or even the black midrange deck.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Overseer of the Damned is awesome! Necromancy is so awesome that you won't regret running 2 of them, promise!
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
This is a lot like the tortured existance decks in pauper, who use their namesake card to recur stuff like predatory nightstalker, or sweepers/win cons like crypt rats.
The advantage is inevitablity, and the ability to grind out any deck in the game. They are pretty annoying decks to play against in that format, and TE feels very much like a low power recurring nightmare. Its possible that TE is one of the cards that you should be looking at, but be advised you are heading into prison territory with any variation you devise.
I had a control deck a month or so back that recurred boneshredder for value, using value bounce and reanimation like unearth and unburial rites. It was good, and a lot of fun.
I would suggest giving some thought to what neks you want to run, as they will provide any balancing condition you feel is needed: edict lack of targeting, power toughness targeting limits, or color limits.
You could view it less from the perspective of nek recurring, and more about recurring death trigger creatures that suicide. This increaes the number of death triggers you have, which interacts with cards that care about that,like goblin sharpshooter, or can convert it into a resource , like angler.
The advantage is inevitablity, and the ability to grind out any deck in the game. They are pretty annoying decks to play against in that format, and TE feels very much like a low power recurring nightmare. Its possible that TE is one of the cards that you should be looking at, but be advised you are heading into prison territory with any variation you devise.
I had a control deck a month or so back that recurred boneshredder for value, using value bounce and reanimation like unearth and unburial rites. It was good, and a lot of fun.
I would suggest giving some thought to what neks you want to run, as they will provide any balancing condition you feel is needed: edict lack of targeting, power toughness targeting limits, or color limits.
You could view it less from the perspective of nek recurring, and more about recurring death trigger creatures that suicide. This increaes the number of death triggers you have, which interacts with cards that care about that,like goblin sharpshooter, or can convert it into a resource , like angler.
So I'm resurrecting this thread sort of. Thanks for all the input! I've given some thought to what I want out of cubing and I'd like to rebuild this cube with some more direction. People who've read this thread now I've had some issues with my midrange decks, so when I rewrite this list I'd like to try shape the format more after a plan.
I also wanna take a second to define sort of what my understanding of the different archetype's game plans are, and how I can try to facilitate those decks in the cube.
Some hastily written cube manifesto:
One of the biggest colors to get disruptive creatures from is black, but I've been having issues with deciding what to do with their two drop section. Black two drops are crap, at the pretty high power level I want to put the cube. In order to have both black disruptive aggresive decks as well as black as a control color, I want them both to interact with the opponent as well being able to friggin block. Sadly, for black, I think the number of disruptive creatures at the 2 cmc spot is pretty much void.
The two drop section I'm thinking about right now is:
And I can't really conclude to anything but black being dreadful at two drops. I'm hopeful for the rest of the color though! It has a lot of interesting spells, and some really nice threes and fours.
This is mostly a status update, but if you want to I'd love to hear more about your experience with stuff like multiple wastelands versus greedy mana bases and getting black two drops to work!
I also wanna take a second to define sort of what my understanding of the different archetype's game plans are, and how I can try to facilitate those decks in the cube.
Some hastily written cube manifesto:
- The cube should have strong aggressive decks as well as strong control decks, midrange decks should exist but I want them to come together because some actively draft them and not by accident
- Those decks are made strong by balancing the format (making sure the difference between strong and weak cards aren't too big) and using high power spells that make for nice interactive games
- The aggressive decks should have a bunch of efficient low cost creatures to pressure the early turns where mana is limited, with some kind of disruption to keep the game in this early stage
- The control decks tries to win with inevitability, either some engine or a game dominating threat, and has cards that makes sure they get from the early mana-tight stage of the game to the late game where card advantage and better card quality makes sure they lock out the opponents game plan.
- The aggressive decks needs a way to stay in the game even in later turns
- The control decks need ways to interact meaningfully in the early game
- The entire cube should be very low curve, just because I like those kind of low to the ground games. I'm still a fan of high mana cards, but I want there to be a contrast between the decks focused around topping at 5, and decks that play 7 and 8 drops through reanimation and dedicated ramp.
One of the biggest colors to get disruptive creatures from is black, but I've been having issues with deciding what to do with their two drop section. Black two drops are crap, at the pretty high power level I want to put the cube. In order to have both black disruptive aggresive decks as well as black as a control color, I want them both to interact with the opponent as well being able to friggin block. Sadly, for black, I think the number of disruptive creatures at the 2 cmc spot is pretty much void.
The two drop section I'm thinking about right now is:
And I can't really conclude to anything but black being dreadful at two drops. I'm hopeful for the rest of the color though! It has a lot of interesting spells, and some really nice threes and fours.
This is mostly a status update, but if you want to I'd love to hear more about your experience with stuff like multiple wastelands versus greedy mana bases and getting black two drops to work!