General Revisiting "Squadroning"

[Onderzeeboot]

Ok, I'm testing the following five and will do a first evaluation after next weekend's draft.



@CML: I expect Grim Guardian to be a pretty decent card in my cube. I push an enchantment theme in , with minor support from the other two colors. It's a zombie to boot!

Well... Nothing broke! People didn't mind it at all, and with the yellow x2 stickers it was immediately obvious what was happening. In fact I forgot to explain, and in the first pack one player asked, I explained, and he was like "Aha. Okay!"

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

And what did your playgroup end up drafting? Did it impact the game session or was it just novelty?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

The Raptors, the Pyromancers and the Pridemates were played if I remember correctly, but I didn't play their decks. This wasn't the playgroup to appreciate the slow card advantage Life from the Loam can generate, and the Grim Guardians ended up in my sideboard when I was diverted from my plan of drafting Esper enchantments when a Vedalken Shackles ended up in my lap and I ended up with enough playables for a blue deck with a light white splash.

 

[Taamas]

There were some conversation about this topic in the Utility Land Draft thread, and I've been thinking about it lately, so I think I will leave my ideas here:

Infectious Bloodlust maaay be interesting. Would you give 3-4 copies of this for a pick? It was cool in Magic Duels, but that's like a total different reality in a total different universe. Nah, I don't think this card is interesting enough, although it's what got printed since the last post here.

I'm surprised no one talked about Myr Servitor. It's an immortal chumpblocker for 2 cards, and two of them for 3 cards and so on. There are cards which do better, I guess. But wouldn't it be powerful in a deck which can sacrifice creatures or artifacts?

 

[Diakonov]

I've been doing a quad-squad of Myr Servitor for a long time now. It's good, I'd give it a shot.

 

[ahadabans]

I'd be leary of squadroning young pyromancers. Card is super good and that deck doesn't need the help IMO.

 

[InfinityBlack14]

So, how about those "Ripple" cards?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

So, how about those "Ripple" cards?

That mechanic was horrible (no, worse than that) in Coldsnap drafts. I have no inclination to run it in my cube.

 

[InfinityBlack14]

That mechanic was horrible (no, worse than that) in Coldsnap drafts. I have no inclination to run it in my cube.

4 copies for a 40 card deck off of 1 pick is still bad? The red one seems alright for that, but I think it might require testing.

 

[sigh]

4 copies for a 40 card deck off of 1 pick is still bad? The red one seems alright for that, but I think it might require testing.

Even with 4, casting 1 on T2 has a 33% chance of hitting another, and even less if you've got >1 in hand. That severe swinginess leads to feel bads, and not being able to count on dealing >2 damage limits your targets. Would suck to target an obstinate baloth and then just whif....

 

[InfinityBlack14]

Even with 4, casting 1 on T2 has a 33% chance of hitting another, and even less if you've got >1 in hand. That severe swinginess leads to feel bads, and not being able to count on dealing >2 damage limits your targets. Would suck to target an obstinate baloth and then just whif....

Yeah, that's fair. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Taamas]

What I dislike about the squadron/ripple/pick multiples is that it makes people have more unplayed picks, and that's a design direction I'm not willing to take for a low reward. I also really like conspiracies for this matter: they make people play more of the cards they pick.

Another thing to take into account is the redundancy you are giving just for one pick. I got attracted to Rune Snag when I saw it, but I think giving four or even two counterspells for the same pick is too much. I think I would pick the multiple Rune Snag over any other counter since it approaches my deck much more easily to the wall-of-counterspell state.

I also don't know if my English is working properly today, so I hope I wrote something legible.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I just stopped doing it because it was a bit of a hassle for not much enough of a reward. That is to say, there are so many excellent cards nowadays, that it's easy enough to have a cube full of interesting cards that don't need the help from squadroning. I cut the cards that would be mediocre without squadroning, and doubled up on those cards that are still multiples.

There are, however, two legit reasons for using squadron picks. The first is, obviously, if you want players to have access to generally mediocre cards that get better in multiples, or that get better if you draft around them. The second is, perhaps less obviously, if you want players to have access to multiples of a certain card, but don't want that card to take up multiple slots in your cube, i.e. you don't have room in your 360/450/... for actual multiples.

 

[Velrun]

Squadroning has been a success over here. I did overdo it a bit at first, though. A few of them are to condense aggro picks and the rest are cards that really need at least two copies to build around. Here are my double-picks currently:



Quad-picks:



I also do this weird thing where if you pick a certain card, you can get copies of other cards. People seem to enjoy it.

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This looks like a very interesting way of doing the Squadron. How do you implement it?

Do you have a cube on paper or digital?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

This looks like a very interesting way of doing the Squadron. How do you implement it?

Do you have a cube on paper or digital?

The link is in his signature.

 

[ahadabans]

The main reason why I never went the route of squadroning is I didn't want to make drafting like an easy bake oven. Make one draft pick and all your key cards for a deck come along with it.

That said, I see the appeal especially if you want to support niche strategies and/or have less than 8 drafters.

As anyone thought about a goblin package? Draft Goblin Lackey, get Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Goblin PileDriver, Goblin Recruiter (or some combination there of).

 

[InfinityBlack14]

The main reason why I never went the route of squadroning is I didn't want to make drafting like an easy bake oven. Make one draft pick and all your key cards for a deck come along with it.

That said, I see the appeal especially if you want to support niche strategies and/or have less than 8 drafters.

As anyone thought about a goblin package? Draft Goblin Lackey, get Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Goblin PileDriver, Goblin Recruiter (or some combination there of).

I'm not sure that really follows what's put out here so far. Weaker cards that rely on multiples to become competent enough as a pick for cube. All of those cards play very well in a tribal cube or goblin theme. So if there's support for the theme, each one would be a pretty solid pick.

 

[Velrun]

The link is in his signature.

Thank you for your response. However I do believe you misunderstood me which is largest my fault. Let me try and be more clear in the future.

When I ask how it is being implemented what I really mean is this: Is it a real life paper cube? Does he have to tell the players about the special Squadron packages before the draft begins and do the players have to remember it throughout the drafting what cards give what extra cards?

I am very curious how each and everyone of you are giving your co-players the best experience.

I am of the belief that us cuber-owners have a responsibility to our players. To give them the service of clear signals. Personally I use proxies where it is crystal clear exactly what each card is adding to the card pool. After the drafting phase my players can trade that proxy card for real Magic cards. This happens while the players construct their decks.

How do the rest of you signal the Squadron/packages where 1 card is worth several cards?

 

[InfinityBlack14]

I would do the same thing.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

When I ask how it is being implemented what I really mean is this: Is it a real life paper cube? Does he have to tell the players about the special Squadron packages before the draft begins and do the players have to remember it throughout the drafting what cards give what extra cards?

I am very curious how each and everyone of you are giving your co-players the best experience.

How do the rest of you signal the Squadron/packages where 1 card is worth several cards?

I thought it was a curious question ^_^

When I still used squadrons, I put a small sticker on the inner sleeve with a multiplier on it, mostly "x2" in my case. That worked very well even with inexperienced drafters. I don't know how I would handle more complex cases, but proxies do seem like the way to go.

 

[Taamas]

I just added Myr Servitor to my list, and since I made proxies for the card, I added an ability at the top, which reads: "Squadron 4 (At the end of the draft, reveal Myr Servitor and ask for three more copies.)" This also opens the possibility of easily adding other squadron cards with other number of copies per pick, although I highly doubt I will add any other. I can't wait to see if this method is clear enough to both experienced players and newcomers without the need to insert a piece of paper in the sleeve of the drafted card.

 

[InfinityBlack14]

I just added Myr Servitor to my list, and since I made proxies for the card, I added an ability at the top, which reads: "Squadron 4 (At the end of the draft, reveal Myr Servitor and ask for three more copies.)" This also opens the possibility of easily adding other squadron cards with other number of copies per pick, although I highly doubt I will add any other. I can't wait to see if this method is clear enough to both experienced players and newcomers without the need to insert a piece of paper in the sleeve of the drafted card.

That's a great idea. Please let us know if the card works out for you.

 

[Diakonov]

I use a color-coded system of stickers to indicate squad-picks (essentially what Onder described). Yellow sticker = 2 squad, green sticker = 4 squad, red sticker = special squad. I also use blue stickers on all Utility Land Draft cards to make it easy to deconstruct after the draft.

I've backpedaled quite a bit on the special squad picks. The only ones I do now are Arachnus Spinner with two Arachnus Webs--which I absolutely love--and the locus and artifact land packages.

The main reason why I never went the route of squadroning is I didn't want to make drafting like an easy bake oven. Make one draft pick and all your key cards for a deck come along with it.

That said, I see the appeal especially if you want to support niche strategies and/or have less than 8 drafters.

Bogbrew Witch felt like an easy bake oven, but I don't really feel that way about the others. Myr Servitor, for example, is still a relatively narrow effect even with four copies. It might end up being a big part of the engine you create, but you still need to draft the right cards around them to make it work.

 

[InfinityBlack14]

Bogbrew Witch felt like an easy bake oven, but I don't really feel that way about the others. Myr Servitor, for example, is still a relatively narrow effect even with four copies. It might end up being a big part of the engine you create, but you still need to draft the right cards around them to make it work.

Maybe you meant to say "Easy Brew Cauldron"

 

[InfinityBlack14]

I just added Myr Servitor to my list, and since I made proxies for the card, I added an ability at the top, which reads: "Squadron 4 (At the end of the draft, reveal Myr Servitor and ask for three more copies.)" This also opens the possibility of easily adding other squadron cards with other number of copies per pick, although I highly doubt I will add any other. I can't wait to see if this method is clear enough to both experienced players and newcomers without the need to insert a piece of paper in the sleeve of the drafted card.

Do you have an update on the servitor?