General "Sacred Cow" or "Cube Staple"

[ahadabans]

So one thing I'm constantly running into (especially with a smaller cube size) are space problems. I see a cool card I'd like to test (something fringe) and I then go check to see if I have room, and low and behold I have 11 "Staples" at that CC. No room. Sigh.

I know that there really is no such things as a "staple" since card choices are so dependent on your cube composition as a whole (what are you trying to do, what is the power level, etc.).

And not so much here, but there has traditionally been a lot of agreement that some cards simply should always be played because they are either really good and/or enable so many things that cutting them hurts your cube no matter what you are trying to do. I.E. cube staples.

What cards really and truly classify as "Staples" and which are really just sacred cows (and can be cut if that is what makes sense)? Curious about opinions on this subject. This group is outside the box in general, so I'm guessing most things are fair game. Still an interesting conversation though.

 

[Suicufnoc]

There are no staples. Run the cards that you personally feel bring the most fun to your environment. Fore example, the green 2 drops that are the least likely to be cut in my cube right now are Wild Mongrel and Nest Invader, for being fun and supporting multiple archetypes. I don't find Tarmogoyf to be especially fun. There are other 2 drop green beaters like Gyre Sage, Scavenging Ooze, etc that are more interesting to placy with and against.

 

[Eric Chan]

I agree that there aren't any cards that I would consider staples. Heck, I've cut Lightning Bolt (to make room for Volcanic Hammer!), and while very few people here agree with me on this, I feel like it's improved my drafting environment. Among the other cards I've axed that might be considered staples are Hero of Bladehold, Path to Exile, Phyrexian Metamorph, Dismember, Go for the Throat, Lingering Souls, Solemn Simulacrum, and Batterskull.

When it comes to testing, I think it helps to go in with a mindset that any change can be reversed at any time. So if you need to cut a so-called "staple" in order to make room for a new card, knowing that the card being cut can go back in later makes it less of a painful procedure. There are some cards that are constantly rotating in and out of my list - Olivia Voldaren comes to mind - and sometimes the absence of a particular staple can give other cards more room to breathe.

The best part about cutting something that everyone considers a staple, though? Chances are, your players won't even notice. Sure, they might miss that Jitte, but they'll fill that deckslot with something else less game-warping and likely more fun. The greatest swaps are the stealth swaps.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

The people who use the word staple are the same people who would immediately drop any of their supposed staples if a stronger version of that card came out.

Which sort of makes me think they aren't using the right word.

 

[ahadabans]

Agreed with everyone here.

But even though there isn't technically an unremovable card (i.e. true "staple"), there are cards that most of us run because they are just really solid. And it isn't always about power. Take Gravecrawler for example. Yes, it's a powerful card for a 1 drop, but it enables all kinds of decks. It might not be a "staple" per se - I'm sure some guys have cut it for one reason or another - but for most metas, having this card makes your cube better.

What I really want to ferret out are which of the traditionally labeled "staples" are cards like Gravecrawler (i.e. cards you really want to make room for because they just add a lot of value to your cube in general) versus some cards that are just revered by the power maxers because they are broken (recurring nightmare, jitte, etc.).

Most everyone runs Counterspell for instance. Why? No other worthy options? It's just the best at what it does, so why not?

The lightning bolt comment is a great example. That's just one of the best most efficient burn spells ever. And that is why it gets played in most every cube, but I can see excluding it if you are trying to balance your removal (weaken instant speed removal or whatever).

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I actually run counterspell because I feel it has the appropriate power level for the effect AND it is just a blue effect, which I want in a card that costs .

If I was looking for the best card at what it does, I'd be looking at Mana Leak (96% of the time the same effect with easier cost) and Mana Drain (obsoletes counterspell). I don't run either of those cards.

I think gravecrawler is as close as you can get to a staple. The question isn't "should I run it?" its "how many?"

 

[ahadabans]

Those are the cards I'd like to identify. The Gravecrawler's. Cards that are just so good for cube that not running them is really a mistake unless you are making some crazy tribal cube or something.

I agree on counterspell. I think it costs the right amount for the power level of cube. I've thought about running more than one, but people tend to not like counters so I've shy'd away from that idea.

 

[Suicufnoc]

I've also cut lightning bolt, though it was for a second magma jet. Other 'staples' off the top of my head that I don't run:
Goblin Guide
Brimaz
Tarmogoyf
Vindicate
jitte
batterskull (may come in)
Wurmcoil
Balance
Wrath of God
Day of Judgement
Gideon
The elspeths
Jace (though I think jace 2 is going in)
ABU duals. (2nd set of shocks instead)
Sol ring, mana drain, moxen, lotus, ancestral, time walk

Time twister is about to go in

Cards that are good for cube:
Fetches
Shock lands
Magma Jet
Wild Mongrel
Blast from the past
Noble Hierarch
...

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I think if you are looking at staples, you need to be looking at effects that do not have a lot of redundancy. If there is redundancy, then you can have power/environment tinkering. One might say Doom Blade is a staple, but there are, like, 20 cards that do the same thing, so which one of those is actually the staple?

Grim Lavamancer, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Looter il-Kor and Courser of Kruphix strike me as staples.

 

[ahadabans]

I've cut almost all the power max staples because I want my cube power level lower. I don't disagree with that thinking at all.

So a second Magma Jet and Nest Invader are now cards I have on my radar. This is something else I'd like to get input on - cards that are really good (even worth running more than one) that most people may not even be considering "staples". I know we have a single card spotlight thread for that though, so if it doesn't make sense here to discuss these that's fine.

 

[ahadabans]

I think if you are looking at staples, you need to be looking at effects that do not have a lot of redundancy. If there is redundancy, then you can have power/environment tinkering. One might say Doom Blade is a staple, but there are, like, 20 cards that do the same thing, so which one of those is actually the staple?

Grim Lavamancer, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Looter il-Kor and Courser of Kruphix strike me as staples.

All cards I run and value highly for that reason. This thinking makes sense to me. Unique cards and those that enable strong arch types.

For me, Genesis and Karmic Guide are two I would never cut ever.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Really? Genesis? It's so slow

also karmic guide has pro black. Obv cut!

 

[ahadabans]

Really? Genesis? It's so slow

also karmic guide has pro black. Obv cut!

LOL. My cube is slower than most. Fair enough that Genesis is slow and in a more modern cube, he's probably on the outside looking in at this point. But he represents the power level/speed I'm after. As soon as my cube it too fast or too strong for Genesis to do his thing and be an all-star, I know I've made bad changes to the cube. My cube is a "forever stuck in 2008" cube from a power perspective. Changes I make now are all about adding more synergy and selectively adding power to shore up weaknesses and level the playing field between colors and arch types as best I can. It's obviously a difficult balance.

Karmic Guide is so combo-lishious. She has such a high ceiling and you can do so many fun things with her. But it's all about synergy and deckbuilding. By herself, she's really not all that great. I do hate the pro-black on her though, but she isn't the threat, it's her ETB ability that makes her good.

 

[Eric Chan]

Blood Artist is as close to a staple as it gets for me.

I like your new definition of staple, though. It's more about the unique build-arounds that slot into multiple archetypes than the cards that are categorically, hands down, the best. In that sense, I agree with Suicufnoc - those shock lands and fetch lands are never leaving my cube.

Off the top of my head, other cards that I would be very hard pressed to cut, because their effects are so unique (and in some cases, so good):

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Blood Artist is as close to a staple as it gets for me.

I like your new definition of staple, though. It's more about the unique build-arounds that slot into multiple archetypes than the cards that are categorically, hands down, the best. In that sense, I agree with Suicufnoc - those shock lands and fetch lands are never leaving my cube.

Off the top of my head, other cards that I would be very hard pressed to cut, because their effects are so unique (and in some cases, so good):

I really like and play all of those cards.

Except Unburial Rites. That card is just completely uninteresting to me, which I find odd, since I like every other card you listed. Can you sell me on what makes it stand out as a great card?

 

[Eric Chan]

Heh heh.

I think that, like you, FSR, I'm not much of a Johnny at heart. I don't really dig complicated shenanigans that take multiple pieces and multiple eons to set up. But.. I have a bit of a soft spot for graveyard antics. Digging through your deck for fatties that you have no way to hardcast, frantically attempting to find outlets so that you can dump them in the yard, and then springing them on opponents living in Fear of God is something that I personally can't get enough of.

It's.. something of an acquired taste, as most people don't usually bother running reanimation as slow as this. But in my cube, turns four and five feel like the perfect time to unleash your hard-fought, well-earned payload on your incredulous opponents—who, in all fairness, will have had plenty of time to react to your dog and pony show. Unburial Rites tends to be the card that most incentivizes people to dive into this tricky archetype, as you get double the bang for your buck, compared with my tamer choices like Makeshift Mannequin and Dread Return.

 

[ahadabans]

Great list. I also play everything except for a couple. Sell me on Burst Lightning. I feel like there are other things I'd rather slot at 1CC. But I could be wrong about it.

And Dread Return is a personal favorite of mine. Getting the flashback is really not that hard to do and it can enable really explosive plays and even combos with Living Death (another personal favorite).

 

[Eric Chan]

Oh, man. I'm glad you asked!

Like I mentioned earlier, I cut Lightning Bolt about a year ago, and I haven't missed it all that much. In that time, though, I've been struggling to find good burn spells in the Modern card pool. I was running Shock for a good long while.. until it dawned on me. Why didn't I just double up on my favourite one, Burst Lightning?

So I did.

The reasons I'm enamoured with it:

• Good in aggro. This is pretty much a must for any of my burn spells. Going to the face for four is no joke, as is removing a pesky high-toughness blocker in a pinch.

• Good in control. Shock already worked well here at clearing out the riff raff, and no one's going to pass up a strict upgrade.

• Good against aggro. One mana burn spells are great at stemming the tide of weenies. Instant speed is key here, as well - that Mutavault can get really annoying!

• Good against control. Reach is all-important against decks that stabilize the board and then take their sweet time whittling you down. Not letting your opponent know they're at four life less than they would believe until the last possible second is fantastic.

• Flexibility. I mean, really, it all comes down to this. It's a burn spell with four (!) modes to it. It's a spell you're happy to see early, and it's a spell you're pleased to topdeck late. Chances are, one of those four modes will do something for you at any point in the game, and it's likely that multiple modes will be live at any given time. For me, one of the main reasons cube is fun is that it appeals to my Spike side, particularly in trying to achieve victory by eking out tiny, incremental advantages. Maximizing the timing and use of modal spells is one of the more satisfying ways to go about that.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I just run so few big creatures I'm not sure I'd get that much value out of the card. I guess agreeing on 12/13 cards isn't bad!

Also, Eric's brazen dropping of lightning bolt (which, I'll admit, hadn't really crossed my mind at the time) really inspired a lot of the important changes that I feel makes my cube fun to play, including my comically bad front page article. I think the best thing to know about traditional staples is that they define a lot of how a cube plays, so unless you are willing to rip them out their is just a very strict limit on how differently you can make your cube play.

 

[ahadabans]

Thanks Eric. I'm going to find room for Burst Lightning. I can see the flexibility of it and I like that in a cube card. It's hard to see the value of that on paper but that sort of thing really tends to shine while you are playing.

 

[Changling Bob]

I think trying to define anything as a cube staple is doomed to failure, as every card should be selected with its interaction with the rest of the cube, rather than because of some label someone's slapped on it. We can all have our pet cards (I doubt I would ever design a cube without FTK, werebear or faceless butcher), and a lot of our pet cards here overlap. I'm running four of Eric's list (O-ring, acidic slime, fulminator mage and unburial rites, although I don't know why Bob isn't in my list), because I don't like what some of them would do, but, you know, would totally make a second list with more in line with his design ideas, and then there'd be more overlap; and it'd probably start 2 burst lightning, 2 magma jet, because that already says a lot about what the cube should look like. I might even go whole hog with gravecrawlers and zombies then, but I don't like that in my current cube, so they aren't staples there (although a gravecrawler is in because it's a neat effect).

 

[Suicufnoc]

Haven't gone double burst lightning yet. My other 1cc burn is firebolt and chain lightning. Firebolt as one of needs few flashback spells to support pyro/spells matter

 

[anotak]

i have nothing i consider a staple. i think that might be different for me as i'm a custom cube guy though

burst lightning had been pretty meh for me in my original cube. i actually like the card a lot but i had to make the decision to just cut it for not doing efficient work for its mana cost.

i can totally understand not running bolt, can't understand running volcanic hammer

 

[Goldenpineapple]

Making a switch from instant to sorcery speed removal is actually kind of interesting; a lot of decks don't even have something else they can do with their untapped mana so instant speed removal just takes a dump on auras and the like more than anything. I don't hate games where players largely play out their hands every turn, presenting their opponent with a new board state.

My cows are my pet cards, and I can't see myself removing any of them any time soon. As far as 'staples' go I'd only consider cards that have a clear identity but don't really lock you into an archetype / a color, like birds or figure of destiny. I think of removal as an entirely different animal so I don't even look at those cards as potential 'staples.'

 

[Dom Harvey]

Staples are also highly cube-dependent i.e. I would never cut Primeval Titan from my main cube but might not even consider including it in a less powerful, more synergy-based cube.

Rather than just post a list of my favourite cards, I'll cite something like Noble Hierarch. It's hard to imagine not wanting some number of green mana creatures, and this is far stronger and more interesting than something like Llanowar Elves. Swapping out Lawnmower and its duplicates to fill up on Hierarchs is guaranteed to make a Cube better (unless the Elf subtype really means something to you)