General Shadow over Innistrad - April 2016 Trailer

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Innistrad is kind of strange that it will dip into some strong lovecraftian imagery, but lovecraft really shouldn't be an appropriate theme for the set. Innistrad is a gothic horror theme, and the historical development of lovecraftian horror was always moving away from the gothic horror so popular at the time: huge squid monsters instead of vampires etc.

While ROE and the Eldrazi were pilfered expressions of Lovecraft's elder gods, they never really fully embraced Lovecraft's idea of an existential crisis triggered by the naive pursuit of knowledge.
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
Innistrad is kind of strange that it will dip into some strong lovecraftian imagery, but lovecraft really shouldn't be an appropriate theme for the set. Innistrad is a gothic horror theme, and the historical development of lovecraftian horror was always moving away from the gothic horror so popular at the time: huge squid monsters instead of vampires etc.

While ROE and the Eldrazi were pilfered expressions of Lovecraft's elder gods, they never really fully embraced Lovecraft's idea of an existential crisis triggered by the naive pursuit of knowledge.

I think the average Joe knows nothing of this. I know nothing of this.
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I'm just saying there is a weird thematic conflict in mixing lovecraft with innistrad's gothic horror, and that it would probably be better to give lovecraftian horror its own unique treatment.

They would seriously need to be more open minded as to the art direction though.
 
Lovecraft's monsters were supposed to represent the horror of the unknown, intensified by their strangeness and vastness. It's intended to inspire that feeling of anxiety as though you were swimming above a dark depth of ocean that descends a mile below you.

It's sorta difficult to create that feeling while simultaneously dropping you in a setting as alien as Zendikar. There isn't enough contrast. Also, fighting against them on a battlefield completely takes you out of the horror headspace.

Edit: I actually think they could have pulled off an awesome Lovecraft theme if made by WOTC circa 1994.
 
I think the average Joe knows nothing of this. I know nothing of this.

lovecraft is all about the futility of trying to comprehend the unknowable and the draw it has on us anyway (feat. bonus classism and racism of the time)

think about The King in Yellow, where a performance of the eponymous play (a real artifact within the fictional world of the book) leads to the end of the world. They go through enormous effort to make this play happen and when they do find out what it means it's far too late. The sort of reactionary pushing back against what grillo termed 'naive pursuit of knowledge' is really sparked by the discovery in the 1920s that the universe is far, far, terrifyingly far larger than we once thought, and so is the existential horror of the stories. (to be fair his books are much more sci-fi than horror and i think fit in that tradition better)

if you want a better hold on his vibe but can't handle his prose check out either AMC's True Detective or Neil Gaiman's excellent "Shoggoth's Old Peculiar".
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
You could also watch the first alien film, its a pretty accessible introduction to Lovecraftian themes :cool:

Group of explorers on the edge of space trying to understand the mysteries of the universe, end up waking some weird alien horror that kills (almost) all of them. The second part of that movie is kind of slasher in space, but the first part is pretty on point.

Most people can't stand his prose, but its pretty hard to get away from Lovecraft's influence on 20th and 21st century horror.
 
The end of the first season of True Detective makes twice as much sense to me now. I am now at about a 60% level of understanding.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
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The end of the first season of True Detective makes twice as much sense to me now. I am now at about a 60% level of understanding.
That was robert w chambers actually.

I think Delver is more an expression of your english gothic romance than it is the more modern american grotesque honestly, it reeks of mr hyde and doctor frankenstein and the classical vs romantic conflicts that infected the writing at the time.

Since you mention it, I think it's pretty telling that Chambers, Robert E Howard, Clark Ashton Smith and Lovecraft were all american I think the relative isolation and post colonial racism they experience did a lot to inform their work and the feeling of settlers anxiety could be blown way out of proportion by the fantasy element. I think it also helped that they all mostly had an antiquarian or historian bent, but studied cultures (whether native or intercontinental) that were completely alien to them.

Zendikar's original 2 sets channeled some of this feeling pretty well to me, because I feel like it captured some of the pulp sword and sorcery atmosphere pretty well and they left enough unstated. The people were new there and no one was telling them anything so they kept rubbing their noses into it. The looming hedrons, cards like Grim Discovery and the expeditions, especially Soul Stair Expedition are great spice when you aren't paying attention to idiotic vampire and ally synergies. The fact that the place was completely alien did sorta channel the pulp horror, or at least lovecrafts poetry, the big reveal in the 3rd set did even sorta follow suit, though much too much of it was done in the daylight and framing any of this like a big stupid war was a dumb decision.

Anyway lastly Lovecraft was racist in a really werid way because he seemed very self aware about it, he used to call himself a pure white racist and tell people he only had faith in nordic or germanic peoples but in his relationships he told a sort of different story, forming relationships with european immigrants of all stripes and marrying a jew. I think xenophobia was something essential to his conception of the world and something he held onto like a safety blanket his lack of range in his writing really spoke to the use of crutches if you know what I mean. Anyway by then racism was already becoming something you were supposed to keep to yourselves in america, but you have to remember in the port cities of the east people all kept to their own kind so there were even vast differences in language to go with your differences in culture and class so its easy to think why he may find the bohunks impossible to deal with and probably up to something (I'm allowed to say it being one myself).

I'm not sure magic is capable of enough looming enormity and fear of the unknown while its sticking to its "building to epic conflict" style of block structure but maybe the 2 set block will change that. Just give me 2 blocks of atmosphere and a story about a white black human searching for her sister in a sinister city and you'll be on your way there rosewater.
 
Little known fact: the fly was originally a short story printed in playboy.

And to think no one ever believed me when I told people I read playboy for the horrific stories of corporeal transgression...

Playboy was the holy grail for pulp publishing, they payed the most.
You'd be surprised by how many of your sf faves had a number of short stories in playboy to go with their releases in weird tales, amazing science fiction or ace doubles.
 
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