Card/Deck Shit Thread: Planeswalker Tier List
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Planeswalker rating list for each color.
I tried to make the ratings so that top tier means cards that wins games for you almost seldom OR gives you so much edge, that you shouldn't give them to other people!
Good cards are great, but not as back breaking as top tier.
Ok cards are just fine cards that you hope to wheel.
Cards that shouldn't exist just needs to reshuffle the stats to be exciting for me.
White:
Blue:
Black:
Red:
Green:
Multicolor and Colorless:
I tried to make the ratings so that top tier means cards that wins games for you almost seldom OR gives you so much edge, that you shouldn't give them to other people!
Good cards are great, but not as back breaking as top tier.
Ok cards are just fine cards that you hope to wheel.
Cards that shouldn't exist just needs to reshuffle the stats to be exciting for me.
White:
Top tier, probably should always be first picked:
Both of these Elspeth's seem oppressive to me, i would use them again if i make power max again.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
I list Ajani this high, because it's a 3-drop that can hit ultimate pretty frequently.
It is more powerful than people think.
Tirel most of the time gives you 3 tokens and a bunch of life, has to be dealt with, so gave it the first pick nod.
Gideon i haven't seen in a cube setting, but i would imagine this being bonkers with aggro decks.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
Both of the Ajani's are just anthems or combat tricks, not that exciting.
Gideon is fine, but i can't justify it being the first pick. All in all it's "just" a bear that later might hit a little more. I need more to go for aggro that early
Cards that shouldn't exist:
Gideon to me is really boring.
Nahiri is a little too random for what it does, i also dislike equipments. They are either too oppressive, or too weak.
Only exceptions would be something like Bonesplitter and Wargear which aren't that exciting either..
Both of these Elspeth's seem oppressive to me, i would use them again if i make power max again.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
I list Ajani this high, because it's a 3-drop that can hit ultimate pretty frequently.
It is more powerful than people think.
Tirel most of the time gives you 3 tokens and a bunch of life, has to be dealt with, so gave it the first pick nod.
Gideon i haven't seen in a cube setting, but i would imagine this being bonkers with aggro decks.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
Both of the Ajani's are just anthems or combat tricks, not that exciting.
Gideon is fine, but i can't justify it being the first pick. All in all it's "just" a bear that later might hit a little more. I need more to go for aggro that early
Cards that shouldn't exist:
Gideon to me is really boring.
Nahiri is a little too random for what it does, i also dislike equipments. They are either too oppressive, or too weak.
Only exceptions would be something like Bonesplitter and Wargear which aren't that exciting either..
Blue:
Top tier, probably should always be first picked:
Both of the Jace's and Tamiyo to me feels a little on the oppressive side, but in a aggro heavy environment they probably are just fine.
Tezzeret is top tier with the caveat that your cube has a lot of synergy with artifacts.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
Even these Jace's could be top tier, but then again all of the above are a little bit better than these.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
I've never understood the baby jace hype.. it's just fine, not the best. It gives you two cards and 2 life, yay
Cards that shouldn't exist:
I tried to like this jace, but no, it doesn't work.
Teferi doesn't see play, 6 mana is too high for such effects.
Both of the Jace's and Tamiyo to me feels a little on the oppressive side, but in a aggro heavy environment they probably are just fine.
Tezzeret is top tier with the caveat that your cube has a lot of synergy with artifacts.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
Even these Jace's could be top tier, but then again all of the above are a little bit better than these.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
I've never understood the baby jace hype.. it's just fine, not the best. It gives you two cards and 2 life, yay
Cards that shouldn't exist:
I tried to like this jace, but no, it doesn't work.
Teferi doesn't see play, 6 mana is too high for such effects.
Black:
Top tier, probably should always be first picked:
It's kinda funny to compare Liliana and Ob Nixilis, because Liliana is more back breaking.
Ob Nixilis does have a lot of value in it, so i think it deserves to be top tier for black, because there aren't enough conteders.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
I don't like Liliana Vess that much, but i think it's powerful enough to be first picked.
It seems so clunky, but when i see it played it's good. Also goes well with control, reanimator, combo.. you could potentially do many things with it.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
I like liliana a lot, but the effect isn't splashy enough to deserve the first pick.
Ob Nixilis is mainly a 5/5 flyer, fine, but not the best.
Cards that shouldn't exist:
If you have a really low powered cube, liliana could be ok, but i just don't like it overall. Leans too much on being black and ultimate does nothing.
Sorin Markov, 3 blacks for effects that are just meh.. the +2 can be a huge deal, but it's turn 6 when you are doing that.. nope i would never want to see this in a cube.
It's kinda funny to compare Liliana and Ob Nixilis, because Liliana is more back breaking.
Ob Nixilis does have a lot of value in it, so i think it deserves to be top tier for black, because there aren't enough conteders.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
I don't like Liliana Vess that much, but i think it's powerful enough to be first picked.
It seems so clunky, but when i see it played it's good. Also goes well with control, reanimator, combo.. you could potentially do many things with it.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
I like liliana a lot, but the effect isn't splashy enough to deserve the first pick.
Ob Nixilis is mainly a 5/5 flyer, fine, but not the best.
Cards that shouldn't exist:
If you have a really low powered cube, liliana could be ok, but i just don't like it overall. Leans too much on being black and ultimate does nothing.
Sorin Markov, 3 blacks for effects that are just meh.. the +2 can be a huge deal, but it's turn 6 when you are doing that.. nope i would never want to see this in a cube.
Red:
Top tier, probably should always be first picked:
Looking at the list of red cards nothing pops up as "pick me pick me", other than Koth.
Koth is just insane in monored or mainly red aggro, if your only goal is to win, go for Koth.
Tibalt is so bad, that the scale resets to top tier.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
Chandra, Pyromaster and Sarkhan are just obvious value, and Flamecaller i haven't seen played in any format yet, but i could imagine it being a house in many cubes.
In my cube Flamecaller would be nice even in storm, since it does massremoval or draws cards.
EDIT: Flamecaller and pyromaster were swapped, i fixed it now !
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
Nalaar and Firebrand are on the edge of being ok, but they can be powerful in the right circumstances.
Daretti i would top tier only because i like it so much with the welder plan in my cube, but in reality it isn't that good most of the time.
Roaring Flame i haven't seen after the prerelease anywhere and i might be underestimating it, but i don't think i would first pick it that often.
Roaring Flame seems really fun though and i probably should add it in my cube.
Cards that shouldn't exist:
Chandra Ablaze i have respect for because i made a deck in standard where i had two of these and i won an FNM with it against stock jund lists, oh man the memories.. no one thought Ablaze could win games
Discarding red cards to deal 4 damage and then Vengeful Rebirth them back...
Yeah Chandra Ablaze is pretty horrible, paying 6 mana to make your RED spells Char or -2 to make each player draw cards ? really clunky and bad, just no don't do it.
Looking at the list of red cards nothing pops up as "pick me pick me", other than Koth.
Koth is just insane in monored or mainly red aggro, if your only goal is to win, go for Koth.
Tibalt is so bad, that the scale resets to top tier.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
Chandra, Pyromaster and Sarkhan are just obvious value, and Flamecaller i haven't seen played in any format yet, but i could imagine it being a house in many cubes.
In my cube Flamecaller would be nice even in storm, since it does massremoval or draws cards.
EDIT: Flamecaller and pyromaster were swapped, i fixed it now !
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
Nalaar and Firebrand are on the edge of being ok, but they can be powerful in the right circumstances.
Daretti i would top tier only because i like it so much with the welder plan in my cube, but in reality it isn't that good most of the time.
Roaring Flame i haven't seen after the prerelease anywhere and i might be underestimating it, but i don't think i would first pick it that often.
Roaring Flame seems really fun though and i probably should add it in my cube.
Cards that shouldn't exist:
Chandra Ablaze i have respect for because i made a deck in standard where i had two of these and i won an FNM with it against stock jund lists, oh man the memories.. no one thought Ablaze could win games
Discarding red cards to deal 4 damage and then Vengeful Rebirth them back...
Yeah Chandra Ablaze is pretty horrible, paying 6 mana to make your RED spells Char or -2 to make each player draw cards ? really clunky and bad, just no don't do it.
Green:
Top tier, probably should always be first picked:
Wildspeaker i first pick 95% of the time it's one of my favorite cards in green.
Primal Hunter i pass quite often, just because i don't want to start with a triple green card even though i know it's wrong in the sense that the card is really brutal most of the time.
+1 for 3/3 is really powerful, not to mention drawing a 3-5 cards most of the time with it.
Nissa in a ramp deck is such a beating, just making 4/4 every turn is really busted not to mention getting 4 mana or more for ramp is huge.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
Freyalise depends on the cube, but having a maindeckable naturalize with a lot of upside is really great.
Garruk: Green removal with token generation to boot is nothing to laugh about. Tutoring happens more frequently than i excpected, so that is something to mention also. Ultimate doesn't happen
Nissa i haven't seen played in any format after the sealed, but i can see it being a fine card for green based decks with dual lands for green. It's just a little underwhelming for my taste, but i guess i would add it in my cube if i got it somewhere.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
Haven't seen this card played anywhere. Is it better or worse than Pridemate, dunno they are pretty close. Making tokens is better than gaining life, also 3-drop is great for green.
Cards that shouldn't exist:
It saddens me that they made it so restricting.. the first ability should have been something like "search your library for an elf creature with mana cost 3 or less and put it into your hand"
Wildspeaker i first pick 95% of the time it's one of my favorite cards in green.
Primal Hunter i pass quite often, just because i don't want to start with a triple green card even though i know it's wrong in the sense that the card is really brutal most of the time.
+1 for 3/3 is really powerful, not to mention drawing a 3-5 cards most of the time with it.
Nissa in a ramp deck is such a beating, just making 4/4 every turn is really busted not to mention getting 4 mana or more for ramp is huge.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
Freyalise depends on the cube, but having a maindeckable naturalize with a lot of upside is really great.
Garruk: Green removal with token generation to boot is nothing to laugh about. Tutoring happens more frequently than i excpected, so that is something to mention also. Ultimate doesn't happen
Nissa i haven't seen played in any format after the sealed, but i can see it being a fine card for green based decks with dual lands for green. It's just a little underwhelming for my taste, but i guess i would add it in my cube if i got it somewhere.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
Haven't seen this card played anywhere. Is it better or worse than Pridemate, dunno they are pretty close. Making tokens is better than gaining life, also 3-drop is great for green.
Cards that shouldn't exist:
It saddens me that they made it so restricting.. the first ability should have been something like "search your library for an elf creature with mana cost 3 or less and put it into your hand"
Multicolor and Colorless:
Top tier, probably should always be first picked:
Ajani, Dack and Ashiok seem a bit oppressive to me and i quite often wonder are they good for my cube environment. Ajani will probably see the boot after the new Nahiri comes, i just don't like cards that generate non-games and Ajani surely can arrange that for you.
Dack stealing a signet or even Gilded Lotus is pretty brutal at times, but at least it doesn't lead to armageddon or some other non-game event most of the times.
Ashiok was taken out of my cube because i thought it just wins every game when you get it turn 3. Hard to kill, comes early, dunno.. i might try it again some time.
Karn and Ugin to me are just boring cards. You will windmill slam them first pick, doesn't matter what colors you are you will play them (or at least should probably). I like harder choices.
Not to mention resolving Karn or Ugin means game really often, i try to avoid one card combos... ...unless i make the power max again some time.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
Venser could also be top tier because it can be really powerful, but i put it here, because it needs a little more work than most good planeswalkers.
Ral Zarek is basic value, i don't think it ever over performs, it just gives me some mana and does a lightning bolt + gives me some life, nothing exciting but still good.
Kiora i like really much, i probably overestimate it, but the +1 is really handy against so many situations, when you aren't taking damage, drawing cards and ramping is sweet, Kiora is the power level i like in planeswalkers.
Narset same thing, the power level is just perfect for my taste. Not that scary, doesn't blow the game apart right away and the ultimate isn't just autolose for the opponent either, but still can be devastating.
I placed Narset this high because if you first pick this, you will probably force yourself to blue and will get decent value out of this planeswalker. I don't think it's hard to pull off a deck where Narset shines in cube.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
Sorin i don't like this for first pick, because two colors for a clunky effect. If you aim for the ulti, you will probably have a board presence that wins you before the ulti even hits. If you make 1-2 2/2 fliers it wasn't THAT insane for you.. dunno, i think it's a fine card, but the cube (or the pack) has to lack sweet spells if i first pick this.
Tezzeret in my opinion loses to the blue tez, because a) two colors b) search ability doesn't guarantee you what you want. I like the card and it's in my cube, but i would rather hope it wheels than go for it right away.
Garruk/Nicol Bolas can win games, but going for a multicolor AND a 7/8drop right away that isn't a reanimator target seems like a weak first pick to me.
Vraska, Domri Rade, Xenagos, Ajani Mentor, Kiora all of these are just fine, i would pick so many one color cards over these cards.
All of the Sarkhan's are pretty weak, but not so weak that i wouldn't want to see them in a cube. Unbroken can really do work at times.
3-color sarkhan is really powerful, but the main problem is that it's 3-colors more than the effects
Sarkhan Vol i think it's a good card in cube, but it's just so vanillaish.. +1+1 haste or threaten isn't sexy, but it does win games !
Ajani, Dack and Ashiok seem a bit oppressive to me and i quite often wonder are they good for my cube environment. Ajani will probably see the boot after the new Nahiri comes, i just don't like cards that generate non-games and Ajani surely can arrange that for you.
Dack stealing a signet or even Gilded Lotus is pretty brutal at times, but at least it doesn't lead to armageddon or some other non-game event most of the times.
Ashiok was taken out of my cube because i thought it just wins every game when you get it turn 3. Hard to kill, comes early, dunno.. i might try it again some time.
Karn and Ugin to me are just boring cards. You will windmill slam them first pick, doesn't matter what colors you are you will play them (or at least should probably). I like harder choices.
Not to mention resolving Karn or Ugin means game really often, i try to avoid one card combos... ...unless i make the power max again some time.
Good cards that are fine first picks, but doesn't win games on their own that easily:
Venser could also be top tier because it can be really powerful, but i put it here, because it needs a little more work than most good planeswalkers.
Ral Zarek is basic value, i don't think it ever over performs, it just gives me some mana and does a lightning bolt + gives me some life, nothing exciting but still good.
Kiora i like really much, i probably overestimate it, but the +1 is really handy against so many situations, when you aren't taking damage, drawing cards and ramping is sweet, Kiora is the power level i like in planeswalkers.
Narset same thing, the power level is just perfect for my taste. Not that scary, doesn't blow the game apart right away and the ultimate isn't just autolose for the opponent either, but still can be devastating.
I placed Narset this high because if you first pick this, you will probably force yourself to blue and will get decent value out of this planeswalker. I don't think it's hard to pull off a deck where Narset shines in cube.
Cards that are ok, but probably shouldn't be first picked:
Sorin i don't like this for first pick, because two colors for a clunky effect. If you aim for the ulti, you will probably have a board presence that wins you before the ulti even hits. If you make 1-2 2/2 fliers it wasn't THAT insane for you.. dunno, i think it's a fine card, but the cube (or the pack) has to lack sweet spells if i first pick this.
Tezzeret in my opinion loses to the blue tez, because a) two colors b) search ability doesn't guarantee you what you want. I like the card and it's in my cube, but i would rather hope it wheels than go for it right away.
Garruk/Nicol Bolas can win games, but going for a multicolor AND a 7/8drop right away that isn't a reanimator target seems like a weak first pick to me.
Vraska, Domri Rade, Xenagos, Ajani Mentor, Kiora all of these are just fine, i would pick so many one color cards over these cards.
All of the Sarkhan's are pretty weak, but not so weak that i wouldn't want to see them in a cube. Unbroken can really do work at times.
3-color sarkhan is really powerful, but the main problem is that it's 3-colors more than the effects
Sarkhan Vol i think it's a good card in cube, but it's just so vanillaish.. +1+1 haste or threaten isn't sexy, but it does win games !
Chris Taylor
Contributor
See, this is really interesting, because you have all the anthemny planeswalkers as "Bad to Worse", whereas Ajani Goldmane usually ends up slamming a game shut in my cube. I probably run less removal than you do
I took out Ajani, Mentor of heroes for being too good
Also I'm not sure we're using poisonous in the same way if elspeth, knight-errant is poisonous
I took out Ajani, Mentor of heroes for being too good
Also I'm not sure we're using poisonous in the same way if elspeth, knight-errant is poisonous
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I'm really surprised that chandra, flamecaller isn't being rated higher: I've seen some pros compare her with elspeth, sun's champion in terms of power level.
I see poisonous as a card that is hard to fight off and that most of the time wins the game after resolved.
Many of the cards in the top tier are like that when resolved on curve.
What am i missing? Why isn't 6 mana Elspeth on par with 4 mana Elspeth for example ?
It makes attacking Elspeth insanely hard, it sweeps, and her ulti wins the game most likely.
poisonous usually refers to being useful in one niche, and one niche only (infect cards fit this description and brought about the name, if I recall). Elspeth, Knight Errant is simply overbearing, not poisonous, using this meaning.
That out of the way, both Elspeth's belong where you have them. I think Grillo is saying that Big Chandra belongs up with them. Chandra can provide almost exactly the same boardstate: sweeper into repeated damage on board, and she can provide consistent card advantage along the way.
That out of the way, both Elspeth's belong where you have them. I think Grillo is saying that Big Chandra belongs up with them. Chandra can provide almost exactly the same boardstate: sweeper into repeated damage on board, and she can provide consistent card advantage along the way.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Poisonous is usually (on riptide) a term used to describe cards that are overly narrow.
Edit: beat me to it, and yes, that is what I am trying to say.
Edit: beat me to it, and yes, that is what I am trying to say.
yes i actually do like ral zarek. his high starting loyalty, the fact that he actually taps, fix mana - all consistent abilities. i will live the five extra turns one day
I could't get anybody to draft Tezzeret the Seeker, no matter what I put in my cube. Myr, artifact lands, Master of Etherium/Sharding Sphinx/Glassdust Hulk, doesn't matter
I think the rest of Meltyman's list matches performance in environments I've run. Also, thanks for going through the time to compile that.
At the moment I've got a core set cube and I'm running 3 in each color + G/B Garruk and Big Nick Balls. Fwiw those are:
W: Gideon Jura/Ajani Steadfast
U: Jace, Architect of Thought/Jace Beleren
B: Liliana Vess/Ob Nixilis Reignited
R: Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker/Chandra, Flamecaller
G: Nissa, Worldwaker/Garruk, Caller of Beasts
and the Origins flipwalkers.
I think the rest of Meltyman's list matches performance in environments I've run. Also, thanks for going through the time to compile that.
At the moment I've got a core set cube and I'm running 3 in each color + G/B Garruk and Big Nick Balls. Fwiw those are:
W: Gideon Jura/Ajani Steadfast
U: Jace, Architect of Thought/Jace Beleren
B: Liliana Vess/Ob Nixilis Reignited
R: Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker/Chandra, Flamecaller
G: Nissa, Worldwaker/Garruk, Caller of Beasts
and the Origins flipwalkers.
Yeah, Meltyman's tier list is great - we can tell you've taken the time to test all of these planeswalkers thoroughly and be able to speak articulately about why you think they rank where they do.
I'm with Chris in that Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is underrated. Dude is straight up bonkers. He probably flies under most people's radar because he didn't make much of an impact in his time in standard, but with even a modicum of board presence, casting a permanent Bounty of the Hunt every turn gets out of control in a hurry. His Impulse also being a plus ability makes him really hard to take down if he isn't dealt with immediately.
I'm with Chris in that Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is underrated. Dude is straight up bonkers. He probably flies under most people's radar because he didn't make much of an impact in his time in standard, but with even a modicum of board presence, casting a permanent Bounty of the Hunt every turn gets out of control in a hurry. His Impulse also being a plus ability makes him really hard to take down if he isn't dealt with immediately.
i think because he doesnt affect the players empty board and need support first. all it takes is a good sequence then he is overwhelming when he goes off.
after a board wipe they would need to do five damage so he seems sturdy in that scenario. i like how he affects the combat step without the vigilance cheese. 5 mana is too much for aggro is a typical rule but i think in a gw deck prioritizing decent amount of mana guys like bop, noble heirarch, lotus cobra, garruk wildspeaker, which are all kind of first picks for me, could pull it off well. hes in an awkward position mana cost wise but both his abilities +1 kind of trading speed for resilience.
feeling similar to sarkhan vol. instead of taking their creature i could find prison term, faiths fetters, banishing priest, fiend hunter, song of dryads and to a lesser extent gideon jura, garruk relentless, polukranos, flickerwisp. if i compare his two abilities to tezzert the seeker he seems leagues better
gw control could use card filtering too they dont have shit. by the time he digs about a sixth of your deck (4/28). however control would have less creatures to begin with
after a board wipe they would need to do five damage so he seems sturdy in that scenario. i like how he affects the combat step without the vigilance cheese. 5 mana is too much for aggro is a typical rule but i think in a gw deck prioritizing decent amount of mana guys like bop, noble heirarch, lotus cobra, garruk wildspeaker, which are all kind of first picks for me, could pull it off well. hes in an awkward position mana cost wise but both his abilities +1 kind of trading speed for resilience.
feeling similar to sarkhan vol. instead of taking their creature i could find prison term, faiths fetters, banishing priest, fiend hunter, song of dryads and to a lesser extent gideon jura, garruk relentless, polukranos, flickerwisp. if i compare his two abilities to tezzert the seeker he seems leagues better
gw control could use card filtering too they dont have shit. by the time he digs about a sixth of your deck (4/28). however control would have less creatures to begin with
Okay, sorry i was wrong with that term then for sure. I changed it to oppressive, i guess that fits better what i was going for... i've been so sick lately i can't think straight
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is underrated for me, because you can only slam it when you are ahead on board, which would be fine, but this card is 5 mana and green white.
If you play aggro / midrange, you probably will be winning more if you go for the +1+1 route.
If you start drawing cards it's a great ability, but do i want to pay 5 mana to draw a card and get 5 life when i'm on the backfoot? Heck, my opponent might just hit my face because the abilities does nothing.
Guess it could be fine in a control deck, but the first ability seems a bit 'meh' compared to other planeswalkers control decks are looking for.
This card doesn't impress me so much that i would go straight to greenwhite.
Now i asked myself what cards could turn me to green/white in first pack first pick over Ajani:
Restoration Angel, Archangel of Thune, Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Reveillark, Any manadork (1 or 2 mana) in green, Deranged Hermit, Primeval Titan, Garruk Wildspeaker, Garruk Relentless, Collected Company, Green Sun's Zenit, Sylvan Library, Birthing Pod.
All of these keep you open for something else than GW but could be really awesome in GW.
This is why Ajani for me isn't the pick, i hope it wheels and i think it will quite often.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Come on eric there's even a card in that block that's a better example
Actually maybe you're right. Man how is "force of will was actually a cycle" the last time we've seen his ability?
The only planeswalkers I'm running are the Origins flipwalkers and a cycle of gold ones, one for each color pair. Right now, that's:
The goal here is to make walkers feel special. Just 15 cards out of ~480, and they take work to cast or flip. Makes the gold section feel more special too. On the other hand, the power level is all over the place: jace, vryn's prodigy, both Ajanis, Sorin and Xenagos seem way above average, while sarkhan the mad and flip Chandra seem a bit janky.
venser, the sojourner and Nissa, Vastwood seer are my favorites, design wise; I wish there were more like those two and maybe fewer generic value walkers.
The goal here is to make walkers feel special. Just 15 cards out of ~480, and they take work to cast or flip. Makes the gold section feel more special too. On the other hand, the power level is all over the place: jace, vryn's prodigy, both Ajanis, Sorin and Xenagos seem way above average, while sarkhan the mad and flip Chandra seem a bit janky.
venser, the sojourner and Nissa, Vastwood seer are my favorites, design wise; I wish there were more like those two and maybe fewer generic value walkers.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
My tiered list is incomplete.
Planeswalkers I cut from my cube because they damaged the health of my draft environment:
Planeswalkers I have yet to develop an opinion on (or can't tell if they're too good):
Planeswalkers I run or have run in my cube that performed well without dominating:
Planeswalkers I cut from my cube because they underperformed:
Planeswalkers I didn't mention because I didn't try them out in my cube:
The rest.
Planeswalkers I cut from my cube because they damaged the health of my draft environment:
Planeswalkers I have yet to develop an opinion on (or can't tell if they're too good):
Planeswalkers I run or have run in my cube that performed well without dominating:
Planeswalkers I cut from my cube because they underperformed:
Planeswalkers I didn't mention because I didn't try them out in my cube:
The rest.
Not to be pedantic... but dumping all three +1/+1 counters on a single, dominating threat can often be just as backbreaking as spreading the wealth.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I like planeswalkers better in some card roles then other card types in a lot circumstances, because they sometimes get attacked and don't give full value. They are also punishing to decks that don't attack, which raises the value of early dudes which is important because my cube is filled with early dudes. Cards like Jace Beleren and Chandra, Pyromaster are fantastic designs from this point of view: they're engines that are disruptable by playing the game. While their gameplay is straightforward, they make games play out differently because they create branching paths in a way casting divination never will.
I'm hoping Arlinn Kord ends up being that kind of card. Token making planeswalkers rarely are, but her weird token every other turn mechanic might make it work.
I'm hoping Arlinn Kord ends up being that kind of card. Token making planeswalkers rarely are, but her weird token every other turn mechanic might make it work.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Yup, I realized this as soon as I posted.
Mostly this is because I actually thought that's how reap what is sown works
Quick thoughts on 'walkers printed after theros block/m15:
Khans-
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker: kinda boring generic red 5. There are more interesting effects at this cost.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor: less annoying than Lord of Innistrad. Kinda swingy as to how good he actually is any given game. Not a huge fan.
Ugin: costs 8, wins a lot of games when cast. Tension with creature/enchantment ramp. Not essential to have imo.
Narset, Enlightened Master: super do-nothing in a crowded CMC and crowded color combo.
Sarkhan Unbroken: not interesting or good enough for a 3-color card.
Commanders-
NOPE
(Ob Nixilis is probably ok)
Origins-
I like all of the flipwalkers. If you were only running one walker of each color, you could do a lot worse than just running this cycle.
Imo Jace and Nissa are pretty strong, the other 3 are good.
BfZ-
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: if I was still running Gideon Jura and Elspeth, Knight-Errant I would replace both of them with this card and a random white card.
Ob Nixilis Reignited: easily replaces Vraska for the boring 5 mana black walker slot.
Kiora, Master of Depths: would rather run the original Kiora... or neither of them.
Chandra, Flamecaller: great! A good red 6, doesn't spam the board, very powerful but beatable. Fun to play and leaves room for counterplay.
Khans-
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker: kinda boring generic red 5. There are more interesting effects at this cost.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor: less annoying than Lord of Innistrad. Kinda swingy as to how good he actually is any given game. Not a huge fan.
Ugin: costs 8, wins a lot of games when cast. Tension with creature/enchantment ramp. Not essential to have imo.
Narset, Enlightened Master: super do-nothing in a crowded CMC and crowded color combo.
Sarkhan Unbroken: not interesting or good enough for a 3-color card.
Commanders-
NOPE
(Ob Nixilis is probably ok)
Origins-
I like all of the flipwalkers. If you were only running one walker of each color, you could do a lot worse than just running this cycle.
Imo Jace and Nissa are pretty strong, the other 3 are good.
BfZ-
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: if I was still running Gideon Jura and Elspeth, Knight-Errant I would replace both of them with this card and a random white card.
Ob Nixilis Reignited: easily replaces Vraska for the boring 5 mana black walker slot.
Kiora, Master of Depths: would rather run the original Kiora... or neither of them.
Chandra, Flamecaller: great! A good red 6, doesn't spam the board, very powerful but beatable. Fun to play and leaves room for counterplay.
What about daretti, scrap savant? Such a perfect engine and archetype in one!
I've enjoyed Daretti in a low-powered environment, but even with a healthy percentage of artifacts (~12.5% card population in the fantasy set), it's still hard to get a deck that really showcases the effects. Without a lot of low cmc manafacts, the -2 is a moderate-to-low proposition in a lot of situations. Additionally, without GRBS inclusions, there are not many possible payoffs to moving into a Daretti-focused strategy prematurely. This lends Daretti to being a mid-pack pick in my format, which leads to uninformed players (most of them) being disappointed when they draft the walker.
I've also had fun with Daretti in the MTGO holiday cube.
My Verdict: Daretti is fun in lower-power formats with (1) a greater density of artifacts than the norm, (2) a lack of Wurmcoil Engines/Myr Battlespheres/etc. and (3) drafters with prior experience playing the environment. Daretti is also probably great in mox-/signet-heavy power maxed cubes. Daretti is probably not good or fun in a cube built like Safra's or Jason's.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
bump given recent conversation elsewhere