Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
White six-drop? Besides Elspeth I run this beauty:
Card/Deck Shit Thread: Planeswalker Tier List
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
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Dom Harvey
Contributor
'slightly above Necropolis Regent'
Elspeth SC isn't up there with Jace or its younger sibling, but it's powerful in a fun way and can't be cheated into play in the 'lol T3 Reanimate my Grave Titan' sense
Elspeth SC isn't up there with Jace or its younger sibling, but it's powerful in a fun way and can't be cheated into play in the 'lol T3 Reanimate my Grave Titan' sense
The problem I have with the Elspeth 6 (Oh man they were printed in 4-5-6 order; zombie elspeth confirmed for 7 CMC) is just how oppressive it is. Dom, I agree that not being reanimate cheaty is a plus, but I don't find her fun. The way she commonly plays out / her abilities are mildly reminiscent of Gideon Jura- you have to over-commit to take her out while she stalls with her + and punishes with her -, letting your opponent essentially get free turns while you're practically forced to shift focus by her presence. The difference being she doesn't actually FORCE you to shift focus the way Gideon does, but the games resemble 'gideon games' closely enough that I'm getting weary of her.
Yeah, 5-CMC Elspeth does a very similar thing. But I mostly just don't care about board-spammers, to nobody's surprise.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Elspeth is weak to flyers though, unlike your favorite hornet 
I think the second Blue and White ones are up for debate. At this point Planeswalker selection is pretty wide open, depending on what you're trying to support. They're printing what, 9 new ones a year? I guess more with the Commander PWs.
I'm actually paring down to one per colour, for the most part, with the exception of white. Two per feels a little heavy in a 360 list, as you tend to see the same powerful walkers over and over again. I'm becoming more partial to gold walkers these days, as they feel like a suitable reward for going into a specific colour pair, and the better ones can pull you into a splash. And as of now, none of them are broken, either!
Yeah a lot of this is me just trying to read the room and include my personal preference.
I would easily be for replacing the jace with any of the other tried and true jaces. Tamiyo's ultimate is probably the only ultimate that I find fun and it's + ability is really versatile, helps aggressive starts as it works with resource denial, and she's an awful lot like an oblivion stone that lets you take a new guy after you've used a sweeper.
I guess the white ones are just control and midranged cards so maybe you want more diversity there, but I find those walkers are a lot more interesting than say the ones that just buff a creature per turn or anthem.
Ah, but that's just your bias showing again. Aggro decks need some walkers to mess around with, too - there are very few of them to begin with. Even if an anthem a turn doesn't set your heart a flutter, there are a lot of other players out there who love this kind of effect, which is uniquely white.
I assume the aggro decks have koth, chandra, ajani V, sorin, lily, domri and to a lesser extent any garruk, and ral. That's 9 of them
(Not to mention like over half the creatures most people put in cube are just for aggressive decks. I'm betting you've got something like 24/32 creatures in your white section that are waaaaay better for aggro then whatever deck you think I'm biased toward. Unless you are still on the squadron hawk thing, in which case I have no idea who those are for, but I'm pretty sure I want them much more in an aggro deck if my control deck isn't already playing a batterskull and a stoneforge. And no this is not a dig against you or anything Eric, I'm just trying to illustrate that walkers are probz more important to control decks than aggro decks because to sustain aggro it kinda needs to be in abundance and the aggro creatures have very little crossover to other archetypes in many colours.)
I also think aggressive decks want a walker that does something other than make their attacking creatures bigger. I like walkers in my aggro decks that sorta expand my avenues of winning or decrease my opponents in some way while still applying pressure.
Ral and Ajani are often better in control than aggro; I mean, aggro decks are usually trying to fill out their creature curves, and four-mana walkers are interchangeable with finishers like Hellrider. Garruk - in all forms and flavours - is better suited for midrange, and I think everyone agrees with this assessment. I never really like having Chandra in my aggro decks, and I think she's best suited for midrange, too. That really only leaves four or five playable aggro walkers, and most people don't even run the full gamut of them.
I mainly think of Ral as a thing that removes blockers+ (like pyromaster) and lightning bolts. I mainly think of Ajani V as a thing that removes lands+, lightning bolts+ and potentially geddons. I like things that are both bolt factories and stone rain etc in my aggro decks. Hell rider is cool and all but for a long time I've been thinking that aggro's 4s could be more interesting than billion damage hasty attackers like koth, hellrider, keldon, hero. I mean, a couple of them around is cool but like games with the weirdos like ruinblaster, ajani V, FTK or something with more play to it are usually way cooler right? Even blood braid is way cooler.
I guess I was jaded by being blown out by garruk 4's ultimate too many times in aggro decks in it's original printing. I also think it's fine if the card isn't strictly a "Going under" killer in your aggro deck as long as it's giving you inevitability though extra attacking cards. I guess it's easy to see any deck that plays say huntmaster as a midranged deck but I've certainly played it in aggressive shells and I consider that card pretty closely to garruk.
Have you played a lot with pyromaster in aggro decks? She's been pretty sweet for me. It often felt like I had played a skinrender or ftk on the last few crucial turns usually leading up to a turn 5/6 win or going some distance to putting me back in the game if I was wrong footed but still capable of keeping up on the ground. I don't often make my aggro decks play 5's but maybe I'm more comfortable making them more 4 heavy or more tricky than other people.
I guess I was jaded by being blown out by garruk 4's ultimate too many times in aggro decks in it's original printing. I also think it's fine if the card isn't strictly a "Going under" killer in your aggro deck as long as it's giving you inevitability though extra attacking cards. I guess it's easy to see any deck that plays say huntmaster as a midranged deck but I've certainly played it in aggressive shells and I consider that card pretty closely to garruk.
Have you played a lot with pyromaster in aggro decks? She's been pretty sweet for me. It often felt like I had played a skinrender or ftk on the last few crucial turns usually leading up to a turn 5/6 win or going some distance to putting me back in the game if I was wrong footed but still capable of keeping up on the ground. I don't often make my aggro decks play 5's but maybe I'm more comfortable making them more 4 heavy or more tricky than other people.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Chandra Pyromaster is perfectly fine in an aggro deck. Repeatable falter that pings the opponent, kills x/1s and draws if you get wiped is worth 4. Its not the quintessential aggro card by any means, but it works at a different angle then the "billion damage hasty attackers" which is cool. If aggro isn't required to have the opponent below 5 by turn 4, she's a keeper.
I think Liliana Vess is underrated. She wins any grindy game, because you tutor the answer or threat you need at will and if the game is stalled they lose all there cards until you roflult. I say this as someone who doesn't run her, because you know, 5 drop. I would play the fuck out of her in a polycube as she would make the final 40 in almost any r/b control shell (unless the table is, like, all aggro).
I think Liliana Vess is underrated. She wins any grindy game, because you tutor the answer or threat you need at will and if the game is stalled they lose all there cards until you roflult. I say this as someone who doesn't run her, because you know, 5 drop. I would play the fuck out of her in a polycube as she would make the final 40 in almost any r/b control shell (unless the table is, like, all aggro).
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Garruk Wildspeaker is excellent in aggro. T4 you get to drop a small threat with the +1 and then Overrun the next turn.
CML
Contributor
Elspeth: Impossible to beat.
Kiora: Fairly weak most of the time but unleashing the krakens feels so fucking good.
Sarkhan: Very solid. One of my favorite planeswalkers and red cards.
Nissa: I just added her so I don't have enough info.
Sorin: Seems good, but I don't see any reason to run him.
Kiora: Fairly weak most of the time but unleashing the krakens feels so fucking good.
Sarkhan: Very solid. One of my favorite planeswalkers and red cards.
Nissa: I just added her so I don't have enough info.
Sorin: Seems good, but I don't see any reason to run him.
Nissa only really has one mode (4/4 tramplers), and it's very good. Power level concern.
Elspeth is fairly frustrating but can "earn it" with her 6-cmc
Kiora is fragile but powerful, can feel very Tamiyo. I like her.
Sarkhan is 'the good red walker.' Feels powerful without being oppressive, IMO what every walker should feel like.
I prefer the lord of innistrad to the solemn visitor- solemn's + creates massive lifegain swings that can really drag games out.
Elspeth is fairly frustrating but can "earn it" with her 6-cmc
Kiora is fragile but powerful, can feel very Tamiyo. I like her.
Sarkhan is 'the good red walker.' Feels powerful without being oppressive, IMO what every walker should feel like.
I prefer the lord of innistrad to the solemn visitor- solemn's + creates massive lifegain swings that can really drag games out.
I recently decided to give in to my OCD and run a symmetrical number of planeswalkers: one per gold, 2 per mono. Might be too many. Here's my current lineup:
Ajani Goldmane will become Ajani Steadfast when I get a copy.
Ajani Goldmane will become Ajani Steadfast when I get a copy.
I really find some of the gold walkers we have to be...lacking. Mainly cuz the golgari ones feel like they're uninspired & there's two gold ajanis. I kind of want a new boros walker. The rest are acceptable, but most of them could be better than they actually are.