General Simulating 8-man decks with 2 players

[Jason Waddell]

Hi guys, I've been trying to brainstorm ways to deal with the testing bottleneck. I often have the opportunity to run two-player drafts, but I don't find Grid Drafting (or any other variant) super useful for actually tuning and iterating my cube. I've been trying to brainstorm an easy drafting method that will give you ~8-man draft quality decks with only two people.

Here's my current idea:
Start with 336 cards (you don't actually have to count them out)
- For Pack 1, you and your opponent each make 4 packs: one with 14 cards, one with 13, 12, and 11.
- Start with your 14 card pack. Take one card as your pick, then randomly remove three cards from the pack and set them aside.
- Pass the pack to your opponent's queue (behind their 11 card pack), then open your 13 card pack and repeat.
- Repeat until all packs are empty.
- Repeat for "Pack 2" and "Pack 3".


Rationale:
The reason for removing the three cards is to simulate the picks of three players. I suggest removing them randomly simply to reduce mental strain. An alternative would be to manually choose three cards to remove, but I find this to be a bit taxing.

To counteract the fact that random card removal will leave better cards behind than in a real draft, I'm using 14 card packs instead of 15 card packs.



It's possible this idea is simply complete garbage. Thanks in advance for any and all critiques and suggestions.

 

[CML]

jason -- it sounds worth a try, let us know how it goes?

as a point of theory i've noticed decks in 6-man drafts are remarkably different from those in 8-mans. they're a little 'rougher' with a more 'defined theme' or 'plan' and therefore a bit more power than an 8 or 9. for example, i'm more likely to see 'GW aggro' or '3-color ramp' or '5-color control' in a 6 than i am in an 8.

 

[Eric Chan]

Jason, I love that you're dissatisfied with existing draft formats, and continue to brainstorm and innovate in that space. Most of us struggle enough just with designing our own cubes and crafting a fun, rewarding metagame for our players; you're out there designing whole new ways to draft cubes. It's a level of thinking and craftsmanship I could never possibly hope to reach, so I'm glad you're out there doing the hard work.

I have no idea if this particular idea will work out, partly because the random removal of cards makes it impossible to read signals, and then move into an open, underdrafted archetype like you would in a real 8-man. But aside from that, it sounds promising. And even if it doesn't pan out, I'm sure that like many rough drafts, it'll be useful as a stepping stone towards something more refined down the line.

 

[Rob Dennis]

I'm in for trying whatever suggestions come out of this thread. As a designer I want to be thinking about what I support in terms of an 8 man draft, but fully 50% of my reps are 1v1, so getting 8 man drafts level of decks in a 2 man is very important for testing and make decisions.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Hi guys, I've been trying to brainstorm ways to deal with the testing bottleneck. I often have the opportunity to run two-player drafts, but I don't find Grid Drafting (or any other variant) super useful for actually tuning and iterating my cube. I've been trying to brainstorm an easy drafting method that will give you ~8-man draft quality decks with only two people.

Here's my current idea:
Start with 336 cards (you don't actually have to count them out)
- For Pack 1, you and your opponent each make 4 packs: one with 14 cards, one with 13, 12, and 11.
- Start with your 14 card pack. Take one card as your pick, then randomly remove three cards from the pack and set them aside.
- Pass the pack to your opponent's queue (behind their 11 card pack), then open your 13 card pack and repeat.
- Repeat until all packs are empty.
- Repeat for "Pack 2" and "Pack 3".


Rationale:
The reason for removing the three cards is to simulate the picks of three players. I suggest removing them randomly simply to reduce mental strain. An alternative would be to manually choose three cards to remove, but I find this to be a bit taxing.

To counteract the fact that random card removal will leave better cards behind than in a real draft, I'm using 14 card packs instead of 15 card packs.



It's possible this idea is simply complete garbage. Thanks in advance for any and all critiques and suggestions.

I tested this with a friend today and it worked pretty well. I'll post a decklist later on, but the power level felt about right. It's great for testing how well supported niche archetypes are, or just for getting a quick drafting fix. Obviously signalling and cutting is pretty useless, and it's not as fun as full 8-man drafts, but what is?

 

[Jason Waddell]

 

[Eric Chan]

I'm deeply disappointed by that mana base, Jason. For shame.

 

[Jason Waddell]

But the deck was killer. So many lines of play and really interesting sequences. I wish I had recorded it. Highlight included hardcastng Zealous Conscripts, stealing his Mirran Crusader and sacking it post combat for a Murderous Redcap to blow up another of his creatures. Or casting Cataclysm with Mox Diamond and Birds of Paradise on board, Zombie Cutthoat and Birthing Pod in hand. Perhaps podding for Murderous Redcap to ping his Sublime Archangel, then hardcastng Flickerwisp to finish the job. It was a really fun deck.