Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight

[inscho]

I'm not really sure which deck in my environment wants this maindeck.

This is the main reason I haven't given it much of a consideration....If your deck wants the body for attacking, it probably doesn't have a reanimation target worth spending 6 mana to get...so then we are talking about it from a standpoint of general value and late game reach, and I feel like there are just more interesting/efficient/thematic options out there.

I am going to be testing it in a micro cube, where flexibility is king and my power level is low enough that it can accommodate the base body in an aggro or even control setting...menace appealing to aggro, and lifelink appealing to control.

 

[sigh]

I do agree that it's efficacy is lessened in cubes approaching or above Jason's power level. The body gets relatively less valuable, and the lower cube CMC lends to A) faster games (usually) and B) lower average CMC of targets to recur with it.

In cubes a notch or two lower than that, like mine, I'm seeing that it has quite a bit of utility in testing.

If anything, it's a reanimation effect for the Golgari sort of self-mill GY value decks that can be dug out with cards like grapple with the past and winding way, something that cards like zombify are at odds with (they just end up in the bin, looking sad)

 

[blacksmithy]

yeah, my use case context is as a value reanimator, not a cheaty reanimator, my power level is lower, and my cube size is micro (currently 192)

 

[inscho]

If anything, it's a reanimation effect for the Golgari sort of self-mill GY value decks that can be dug out with cards like grapple with the past and winding way, something that cards like zombify are at odds with (they just end up in the bin, looking sad)

That's a good point...it definitely has a home in Golgari. I can also see it having value in my dimir dredge/tempo archetype...which has a soft emphasis on evasion, and reanimating a Skaab Ruinator or Tombstalker is pretty solid. It has a role with the hand flicker effects like Shepherd of the Flock and Kor Skyfisher as well.....drop Nullpriest on turn two to put a little pressure on the table...return to hand to kick later in the game for reach.

I'm a big fan of kicker in general, and I'm looking to include more of it in my cubes....maybe this can crack the main list too

 

[Brad]

Buncha cards I'd like power analysis on. Relative to my cube, if you're familiar.

Seems too strong? Does this make the counters deck snowball out of control? Even on its own, it's 3 power up front and 3 power left behind.


Seems too slow? An artifact, sac fodder, and counters card. Checks a lot of boxes, but feels like suspend 3 is an eternity.


Seems too weak? Does this have enough impact for 6 mana? Mainly seems cool with larks.


Seems too strong? Does this not get super snowbally? Really cool card, fits a lot of decks, but looks a little problematic.


Elite seems too strong? Dryad not sure. Again, very snowbally. Do these not grow out of control too quickly?


Seems too annoying? Does this not make blocking absolute hell in a somewhat unpredictable way? Leave mana open and the opponent is just guessing.


Seems too bulky? Is this card fine? It's just a fat ass.

EDIT:

Seems too good? Nice base body and adds potentially 4 mana on the next turn's MP2.

 

[SirFunchalot]

Buncha cards I'd like power analysis on. Relative to my cube, if you're familiar.

Seems too strong? Does this make the counters deck snowball out of control? Even on its own, it's 3 power up front and 3 power left behind.


Seems too slow? An artifact, sac fodder, and counters card. Checks a lot of boxes, but feels like suspend 3 is an eternity.


Seems too weak? Does this have enough impact for 6 mana? Mainly seems cool with larks.


Seems too strong? Does this not get super snowbally? Really cool card, fits a lot of decks, but looks a little problematic.


Elite seems too strong? Dryad not sure. Again, very snowbally. Do these not grow out of control too quickly?


Seems too annoying? Does this not make blocking absolute hell in a somewhat unpredictable way? Leave mana open and the opponent is just guessing.


Seems too bulky? Is this card fine? It's just a fat ass.

EDIT:

Seems too good? Nice base body and adds potentially 4 mana on the next turn's MP2.

Okay so I certainly don't think any of these cards exceed the power level ceiling of your format but some of them do sit closer to the ceiling than the floor, which is fairly low as this cube has a rather wide power band. I think whether or not you decide to play or exclude these cards should depend more on your desired play patterns than the actual rate of these cards as they do seem to fit within the spectrum you're apparently comfortable playing with.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Epochrasite can also be cheated out as a 4/4 in various ways, if that's relevant.

Sedgemoor is a card that scales a bit to your power level. In draft it's been okay for me but not at all overbearing. If you have a copy I'd test it, it might not be as overbearing as you imagine.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Elite seems too strong? Dryad not sure. Again, very snowbally. Do these not grow out of control too quickly?

A mono-black cube should have abundant answers for Baneslayer Angel type creatures, should it not?

 

[inscho]

Epochrasite can also be cheated out as a 4/4 in various ways, if that's relevant.

yep like blink, unearth, the larks, emry, and welders....ojutai's command

It intersects a few strategies in ways I appreciate, but it’s rarely remarkable. A fun glue card under the right circumstances

I also like it in Stax...it’s great for recovering from something like a death cloud. The slow recursion is less of an issue when you are locking things down

 

[Brad]

A mono-black cube should have abundant answers for Baneslayer Angel type creatures, should it not?

Yeah, but that doesn't make it so I can run abundant removal checks. I have the same asfan of removal as most other people do. Bit over 2.

 

[SirFunchalot]

Yeah, but that doesn't make it so I can run abundant removal checks. I have the same asfan of removal as most other people do. Bit over 2.

If a removal asfan of ~2 is a locked in stone value for you then ya I'd be wary of good cheap threats as players will untap with them more and they might snowball a bit harder than you may be comfortable with as players won't consistently be able to interact with them.

I do personally like a very high removal asfan, my cube has a value that hovers around 4 (assuming we exclude stuff like wraths, mana screw lands, and stuff like Negate, otherwise it's closer to 4.5). I certainly don't know if anywhere close to that density would line up with your design goals or not but I do think it has a nice benefit of more interaction is obviously it makes games, well, more interactive, but it also reduces boardstate complexity; since permanents tend to stick around less long, I don't really see the sorts of sprawling clogged up staring contests all that often, which at least for myself and my playgroup is a big plus. Although this is totally personal preference and as always folks are free to design in a way that best suits their own tastes and desires, not trying to be prescriptive here. I just love doom blades hahaha

 

[Brad]

I think that makes sense in your cube. The interaction is definitely nice. That much removal for me would likely be crushing to synergistic decks. Having a Corpsejack Menace or Marionette Master almost always meet removal would defeat the purpose of having build arounds.

 

[SirFunchalot]

I think that makes sense in your cube. The interaction is definitely nice. That much removal for me would likely be crushing to synergistic decks. Having a Corpsejack Menace or Marionette Master almost always meet removal would defeat the purpose of having build arounds.

I definitely agree with the sentiment that a high removal density can muck up certain kinds of lower power level synergy things but you do have some ability to sorta cheat a bit. WotC nowadays likes to print more restricted cheap removal that actually doesn't kill high cmc or big statted threats, so stuff like nowadays you'll often see Last Gasp and Smother variants like Eliminate, which can help keep the stronger cheap threats in check while still ensuring players don't as consistently get blown out for trying to do cool shit with big beefy things like Goldspan Dragon as they would in older formats where the removal is too efficient. I think it can feel okay getting your on board synergy thing blown up as long as you aren't getting totally annihilated on the tempo axis, as losing your Baneslayer Angel to Doom Blade sucks, but losing it to Feed the Serpent is a lot more palatable. Even retail limited nowadays has a lot more removal than it used to, they just make sure that the bulk of it isn't super efficient, so decks can still technically disrupt each other but bigger spells can stay a bit more relevant.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I do personally like a very high removal asfan, my cube has a value that hovers around 4 (assuming we exclude stuff like wraths, mana screw lands, and stuff like Negate, otherwise it's closer to 4.5).

Where do you put cards like Unsummon, Remove Soul, Agonizing Remorse and Giant Growth in that count (i.e. bounce, counterspells and discard effects that can target creatures, and combat tricks)?

 

[blacksmithy]

How big an ask is this in a mono midrange environment? Obviously it’s a terrible topdeck, but i am looking for non-Thoughtseize, non aggro beater, proactive “investment plays” on turn 1 and this feels like it should come online around turn 4-5 probably?

 

[TrainmasterGT]

How big an ask is this in a mono midrange environment? Obviously it’s a terrible topdeck, but i am looking for non-Thoughtseize, non aggro beater, proactive “investment plays” on turn 1 and this feels like it should come online around turn 4-5 probably?

I think this card is pretty terrible. It takes forever to do anything useful and the reward isn't really that big.

Deadeye Tracker, Foulmire Knight, and Knight of the Ebon Legion are all good options with mid-to-late game applications. I could even see playing Graf Harvest in this slot if you have enough other Zombies in the cube to make the menace abillity relevant, but it is not very good either.

 

[Brad]

Not totally sure what you're after or what your themes are.

 

[inscho]

How big an ask is this in a mono midrange environment? Obviously it’s a terrible topdeck, but i am looking for non-Thoughtseize, non aggro beater, proactive “investment plays” on turn 1 and this feels like it should come online around turn 4-5 probably?

I’m actually a pretty big fan of this card. I ran it in my grid cube. What I liked most about it is that a controlling deck with removal/sweepers wanted it and it could be pumped out pretty quick in a sacrifice deck. I liked it with innocent blood and barter in blood. The 5/5 body just needs to be especially relevant in your format

edit: should clarify it’s only suitable low power levels

 

[Jason Waddell]

How busted is:

 

[Onderzeeboot]

How busted is:

Super cool card, hasn't been busted at my power level at all. You need to attack with it to get something back, so your opponent has ample time to respond to this. I love the card.

 

[Velrun]

I haven’t found it to be busted either.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Calling all weirdo cubers. Anybody have experience with this one?

 

[SirFunchalot]

Where do you put cards like Unsummon, Remove Soul, Agonizing Remorse and Giant Growth in that count (i.e. bounce, counterspells and discard effects that can target creatures, and combat tricks)?

idk, i dont have a low enough power cube to play those cards so its not something i actively think about or consider.

How big an ask is this in a mono midrange environment? Obviously it’s a terrible topdeck, but i am looking for non-Thoughtseize, non aggro beater, proactive “investment plays” on turn 1 and this feels like it should come online around turn 4-5 probably?

I think quest for the gravelord is weak and slow with a payoff that probably struggles to be worth the time investment it takes to get access to it. Stats have diminishing returns as the game goes on. A 5/5 beater is very very good in the first couple turns and often irrelevant and easily neutralized in the later stages of the game when boardstates are more developed.

How busted is:

nowhere close to busted, it's a baneslayer that typically doesn't come out until turn 3. Very high upside if you untap with it and a low casting cost make it playable but it's nowhere close to the power level of cards I consider broken. it's just a good fair threat.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

idk, i dont have a low enough power cube to play those cards so its not something i actively think about or consider.

Sorry, I meant the car categories, not the specific examples themselves. I assume you run some bounce, counterspells (that can target dreature spells), discard effects, and... well, maybe not combat tricks. Do cards in those categories count as removal spells when calculating your as-fan or not?

 

[SirFunchalot]

Sorry, I meant the car categories, not the specific examples themselves. I assume you run some bounce, counterspells (that can target dreature spells), discard effects, and... well, maybe not combat tricks. Do cards in those categories count as removal spells when calculating your as-fan or not?

the only bounce I run does other things, brazy b, 3feri, jtms. I do not play any creature specific countermagic. I do run hand hate but don’t consider it removal. And yeah zero combat tricks.

when I think of removal I generally hunk of it as cards that directly remove cards from the board. I suppose under this framework bounce is removal, but like, really bad removal in the same way that feed the serpent is bad removal