Synergistic multiplayer cube attempt

Nanonox

Nanonox

First attempt at cube list is here!

I exclusively play multiplayer FFA games of 3-4 players. Lately, I'm getting bored of silly overpowered finishers that take no effort to win the game (for example a player won with a Sepulchral Primordial that reanimated a Restoration Angel). My players seem to be echoing my feelings so I want to tone things down.

We all want to still play powerful cards so the power level will be high, but I want there to be more focus on synergy than raw power as I believe it makes the draft and the games more interesting. In the same vein, I want cards that can be flexible and encourage decision making (Vendilion Clique is the perfect card to illustrate that. It fits into any deck, is interactive but still fair).

The draft
Since we are only 3-4 players we draft the cube in a different way.
For 3 players, we make 8 or 9 packs of 15 cards. Pick one card and "burn" two. This means you get 5 cards per pack for a total of 40-45 cards. Why 8 or 9? If I have a 360 cube, then 8 packs, if I have a 405 cube, then 9 packs.
For 4 players, we do 6 packs of 15 cards. Pick one and "burn" one card. So a total of 48 cards drafted.
The power level of the decks are high to be sure, but we like having these types of decks. It's very tough during deck construction though as the cuts sometimes feel impossible.

Design
As suggested in this other thread here, I chose 5 shards/wedges and assigned them an general archetype that I then specified into the guilds.
After reading this post by dbs about artifacts, I'm convinced it's something I want in my cube.
I will also detail what each guild can do as there are some hybrid decks that emerge when mixing and matching different archetypes.

For now I don't have a definitive cube list, but I know I want these themes and the cards listed are what I will be building from.
Here is what I have

Bant: Tokens

Selesnya: Go wide pump. I'm currently going with the idea of +1/+1 counters, but I could see it going with more traditional anthems or even overrun effects.
Azorius: This one is tougher for me to flesh out. I want there to be an artifact token build,

but it seems I'm pushed towards a spell matter token deck as well

Having all of the pieces seems like a lot and I'm unsure of where to go from there.
Simic: Rampish tokens. This one is less defined, but basically we are ramping towards bigger token makers while drawing cards when attacking.

Abzan: Lands
Selesnya: Go wide

with the Bant token payoffs.

Land destruction
Golgari: This is mostly graveyard based, but can go the stax route or a hybrid.
Orzhov: This is a stax deck based around limiting the amount of lands your opponents have.

Temur: Ramp
This one is tough for me. Adjusting my ramp suite and payoffs to be synergistic with the rest of the cube is a challenge. I went with quite a few untappers because I like how they have different uses other than just ramp (Retreat to Coralhelm + Imperious Perfect for example)

Simic: Use untappers to make a bunch of mana.
Izzet: Artifact ramp deck.
Gruul: Creature ramp. Play some dorks and tap them for mana. Finish with a big creature or X spell.

Mardu: Aristocrats

Boros: Tokens. Red provides most of the payoff cards and white produces a lot of tokens.
Rakdos: Death triggers, recursive threats and some theft. This color combination can do a lot of direct damage!
Orzhov: This is once again more of a stax build, but it aims to keep the board clear of creatures more than lands. Sweet little artifact theme in there as well.

Grixis: Artifacts

Rakdos: This is either a stax deck

or a reanimator deck


and work well in both.
Dimir: I want this to be more of a controlling archetype, but I'm not sure how to make it about artifacts. I was thinking
Izzet: I see 3 main ways to go about this color combination:
Reanimator, ramp or tokens. Basically a giant mash up of the other cards used before.

I am the least happy with Dimir. It's easy to build a good control deck, but I have trouble incorporating artifacts into the theme to make it part of Grixis.
So that is the general idea behind each shard/wedge, however with enough overlapping pieces, each guild can have multiple decks outside of their "prescribed" archetypes.

I will try to list them here:
Selesnya
Land destruction


Tokens +1/+1


Creature ramp
Azorius
Artifact tokens


Control


Blink


UW reanimator?
Boros
Sacrifice tokens


Artifact tokens (mono anthems!)


Land destruction


Reanimator
Orzhov
Stax


Tokens sacrifice


Artifacts (Need to flesh this out. Not enough synergy. I'm seeing this as a hybrid of token drain and sacrifice. Even a stax build is possible)


Tokens drain
Rakdos
Tokens drain


Sacrifice value


Artifact stax


Reanimator (artifact or not)
Dimir
Reanimator


Control (this is a hot mess. I cannot get anything cohesive going)
Simic
Untap ramp


Tokens


Landfall


Graveyard control
Gruul
Creature or tokens ramp


Wildfire


Midrange hasty dudes
Golgari
Graveyard lands


Graveyard creatures


Sacrifice (not sure what the actual game plan is here. Looks a lot like the above archetype with some sacrifice effects)


Stax
Izzet
Artifact ramp


Artifact tokens


Reanimator


Control
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

I'm just posting my thoughts as it helps me keep track of things.
- I notice I have the payoffs for a RW reanimator deck, but I'm a little light on the set up cards. In red I have

In white, I have...nothing. This means leaning on artifacts to get cards into the GY. Right now I have:

Altar is great and fits into my aristocrats theme, Post and Jar are a little slow, but Copter and Broker seem perfect.
I'd like a few more cheaper outlets and I think red has some decent enough options. I'm looking at

Red 2 drops in multiplayer have never been great, so I'm comfortable jamming these in there.
Wheel of Fortune is an obvious contender, but I don't have that much fast mana and in a 3-4 player game, giving opponents that many cards is a very risky proposition.
Having the looting effects in red makes Rakdos reanimator much more of a thing now. I need to find a way to tie those discard triggers into something for Gruul. I've seen many discard aggro decks, but I'm just not 100% convinced it's something that you can pull of when you need to deal 40-60 damage to everyone.

Edit: I was planning to include Assemble the Legion because of how well it fits with my themes, but then realized that it's not very interactive and goes against what I am trying to make. I might try Nahiri, the Harbinger as a discard outlet for said reanimator deck and a nice card to have post Armageddon/Wildfire. I do worry it's just generically good though...

Edit 2: By adding Miraculous Recovery to white, it makes both UW reanimator and WR reanimator more consistant. It's also a cool trick to play in other decks so I'm pretty happy about it.

Edit 3: The importance of having my fatties be artifacts is revealed when I look towards my red "reanimator" decks. Alone, Feldon of the Third Path is not enough to build the deck. But if you can use Welder and Daretti, you are in business in every color combination except Gruul.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

So, continuing just dumping my thoughts here, since typing out all the different archetypes has made a few things clearer to me:

- I'm struggling to make blue control decks.
- My Orzhov decks are all over the place. I think I need to make some decklists to see how it looks (there is clearly a tokens theme, a stax theme and a reanimator theme. Artifact subthemes of these exist too)
- I'd like to tie in my red looting effects with green somehow.
- I have a lot of similar decks with different twists such as reanimator (in every color combination but green ones), tokens (literally everywhere) and so on. I think they are different enough that it's ok, but not 100% sure.
- I'm missing some sweet early creatures for my Simic decks. I was hoping to play things other than ramp though.
- Not sure if I want to include a Golgari Sacrifice theme as a whole or if it's a Graveyard Creatures subtheme.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

How much is too much?

So I have ramp cards in Temur. I have a sacrifice theme in Mardu. I want to add this package to green:

Awakening Zone is the perfect tie between tokens and ramp. Leap and Fecundity go well together and with the Zone. Pattern might be the missing link to tie reanimator to green in the sense that you are cheating a fatty into play.

To tie things into Golgari I have (among other things)

Which allows to continue the sacrifice/death ramp theme quite nicely.

To round things off in red, I'm thinking of

Sneak is kind of a reanimator card that goes really well with Pattern of Rebirth. Hatcher fits the death/ramp/token theme (and would likely replace Siege-Gang Commander) and finally Sarkhan seems like the perfect payoff as it pumps the tokens and the steal is perfect for sacrifice effects.

This supports Jund as a shard, giving it a unique combination of Ramp/sacrifice/tokens that is a mix of both Temur ramp decks and Mardu sacrifice decks.
I don't know if this a desirable route to go in considering I am only supposed to support Temur, Mardu, Bant, Grixis and Abzan.

I see this as a low opportunity cost archetype that gives players more options when drafting. It does mean replacing Siege-Gang Commander with Emrakul's Hatcher and either adding Pawn of Ulamog or replacing Midnight Reaper which seems like a bad move.
 
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Nanonox

Nanonox

So I got a list up (see opening post) and I did 3 drafts. I ended up with

Naya mana denial from CubeTutor.com












A 3 color Wildfire/Cataclysm deck. This deck has some mana rocks, big butts and planeswalker to survive Wildfire and Life from the Loam and World Shaperto minimize the land destruction aspect. Then some wraths help control the early game. Cataclysm should work in our favor with both World Shaper + Titania, protector of Argoth,Mimic Vat and Smothering Tithe.
To be honest I'm pretty happy with this deck. The cards are powerful, the synergy is there. The curve is clearly off as I have trouble drafting on Cubetutor since I cannot rearrange my curve mid-draft.

Then I drafted a tempoish UW deck:

UW tempo/artifacts from CubeTutor.com











This deck looks functional to be sure, but a little boring. I didn't see any artifact token payoffs except for Cranial Plating. There is some late game value with Snap, Jace and Gearhulk, Restoration Angel and Mentor of the Meek do some work in that department too as does Academy Ruins.
I will note that I had a lot of playables for this deck which might mean too many redundant pieces. I would have loved a Master of Etherium or some other artifact payoff (Steel Overseer also comes to mind)

Last deck I drafted was a Gruul aggro/ramp deck:

RG aggro/ramp from CubeTutor.com










This deck I misdrafted pretty bad. I seriously underestimated the ramping capabilities and failed to pick up some expensive/bomby finishers.
I had Rishkar + Nissa + Gearhulk. Earthcraft + Pia and Kiran + Awakening Zone. I also noticed a sweet interaction I had missed before of Earthcraft/Cryptolith Rite + Throne of the God-Pharaoh. Polukranos is obviously good, but i dislike that he was a "must pick" during the draft. I had to leave behind some synergy pick. He does make sense in this deck as a mana sink though.

I will be drafting this more tomorrow to see what other issues come up. Thanks for reading!
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

I'm trying to get a handle on my Orzhov decks and there are 2 main ones that emerge: Tokens and Good stuff (control or midrange).

BW Tokens from CubeTutor.com











I like that this tokens deck attacks from different angles. You can either pump your guys (Rally the Peasants, Spear of Heliod, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad), Drain the opponent (Zulaport Cutthroat, Athreos, God of Passage) or Sacrifice them (Hidden stockpile, Teysa Karlov and Marionette Master).
It even has some card advantage with Recruiter, Reaper, Reveillark and the Planeswalkers.

A card that I would have never played but you guys turned me on to was Chromatic Star. It looks so innocuous, but it helps Hidden Stockpile, Monastery Mentor and Marionette Master, in addition to fixing mana. Not sure how I'll get my drafters to see the importance of these cards, except by drafting them myself at first.

BW control from CubeTutor.com













This control deck has it all, which hopefully doesn't mean it's too strong! Card advantage engines, board clears, death touch stallers, life gain and some good finishers! Hopefully multiplayer dynamics keeps these decks in check!

I'm happy with both of these (even if the control deck might have too many Planeswalkers). However I could probably make 60 card decks with all the playable cards in the SB.
That means I can afford to diversify my cards a bit more.

What I want to explore is a Small Reanimator theme. That means taking some impactful 2-3 drops that have either been killed, milled or sacrificed for value and bringing them back. This would be a BWr theme with the main cards being



Most 3 drops are cards that generate some sort of value that you play in these decks anyways. The following cards would also be very helpful in the theme



What I like about this theme is that it hints to drafters that they will be rewarded for drafting a low curve which is something that is currently missing.
I would have loved to extend this more into red, but the only other relevant card I can think of is Raid Bombardment which isn't what I want. However red has nice artifact synergies that work with Teshar and excellent aggro cards like Goblin Rabblemaster that will die and need to be brought back.

There would also be more traditional reanimator decks with Miraculous Recovery, Karmic Guide, Stitch Together, Necromancy, Body Double, Feldon of the Third Path and discard outlets.
Is it a good idea to have two reanimator decks coexisting that do not fight over the same cards? It removes some of the tension in the draft and puts a lot of focus on the graveyard.

So basically I'm saying I have too much redundancy in my BW sections. To shake things up, I want to try a small reanimator package to give it a distinct feel. this would bleed into red naturally.
I don't know if this is distinct enough but I am going to try it!
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

So I drafted this thing a bunch, made some adjustments, drafted some more and now I have some more insight.

First of all, screw most planeswalkers. I know this is a popular view around here, but I couldn't see it until I wanted to highlight other cards. They do a lot of work for very little effort and completely smother other options. I still like both Darettis, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Liliana of the Veil and Karn Liberated (artifact/enchantment removal for all!), Dovin, Grand Arbiter and Nahiri, the Harbinger

Secondly, I have moved away from the shard/wedge approach as I found it a bit too restricting. Instead I chose to build up the guilds more in depth and let the shard/wedge relationships emerge naturally.

Third, I really enjoy having the high amount of artifacts in the cube with some payoffs in each color (as suggested by dbs). It can make some interesting hybrids and adds nice tension to the draft between the most synergistic card and the more powerful card.

Finally, green is a really important color in my cube. It's the home of many archetypes like Lands, Ramp and Counters. I'm worried this is too much for one color.

Here are the updated guild archetypes:

Azorius: Artifact tokens tempo, Spells control, Skies, Reanimator
Selesnya: Destroy world/lands, +1/+1 counters (go wide), Creature ramp
Boros: Tokens (anthems, artifact and sacrifice), Land destruction, Reanimator (big and small)
Orzhov: Tokens (sacrifice and drain), Stax, Control, Reanimator (big and small)
Rakdos: Artifacts (reanimator and sacrifice), Sacrifice burn
Golgari: +1/+1 counters (go tall), GY value, Stax
Dimir: Reanimator, Tempo fliers, GY control
Izzet: Spells (velocity or control), Artifacts (reanimator, Wildfire)
Simic: GY value (spells or creatures or both), Saboteurs, Ramp
Gruul: Creature ramp, Monsters, Wildfire

I also have some slots that I am not happy with, but I am unsure what to do with them. Add new archetype cards, support existing archetypes or just good all around removal to keep things honest? I know I want to avoid cards that are generically good and don't work in themes I'm supporting.

White:
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thalia, Heretic Cathar. These two cards are obviously good, but they only really go into aggro decks.

Blue:
Drake Haven. I'm not sure I have enough cards to support it or that it is even good. That 1 extra mana is a lot when you have 2-3 other players gunning you down. I want to get a Time Warp in there, so that may just be the cut.

Black:
Vampire Nighthawk, Raven's Crime, Orzhov Enforcer. The hawk is just a good defensive dude for control, but there is already Stinkweed Imp and Isareth the Awakener that do more. I was thinking about Herald of Torment as a nice flyer that can also play as a "pump" spell. I really like the Crime, but against 2-3 opponents it seems a little underwhelming. Enforcer is fine, but that's it. I could see trying out Apprentice Necromancer or something along those lines since it goes into sacrifice and reanimation decks.

Red:
Impact Tremors, Bosh, Iron Golem. Purphoros, God of the Forge is way to powerful and non-interactive, but Tremors is a little lackluster. I'm thinking of doubling up on Young Pyromancer as a way to support Spells matter in Izzet/Boros. Bosh just never seems to fit decks that I build. You don't really want to reanimate him just to sacrifice him and his ability is expensive. I have nothing for Bosh. I can see myself playing any converter mana cost card in that slot.

Green:
Polukranos, World Eater, Survival of the Fittest. Polukranos is just too big and good. He fits everywhere and I hate seeing him in a pack next to another synergistic card for my deck because it's almost always right to pick him. Survival is great, but I was thinking of getting a Wild Mongrel in there as a way to bolster green aggressive strategies. However, I don't support madness decks or berserkers so maybe it should just be a Wall of Blossoms to give green decks something to hold down the fort with. I could also go with the busted Doubling Season now that I've cut most of my planeswalkers.

Multi:
Depose // Deploy. I like the card, I just don't know that it's needed. I like that it's hybrid and that it can be used in Izzet decks. This could be a Migratory Route, Brago, King Eternal or even the new 5CC wrath that bounces a dude variant from the new set.

Colorless:
Basilisk Collar, Karn Liberated, Endless Atlas. Nothing wrong with these and they aren't oppressive by any means. But they are just generic.

That's it for now. I will be testing and tweaking some more, hopefully having some breakthroughs. I'll post more thoughts as I discover them!
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

There is just so much quality information in this forum that I sometimes have to snap myself out of it lest I "waste" a whole day reading up on cube.
Anyways, found this post about broad archetypes in cube design. It makes a lot more sense than either the guild or shard approaches. So I'm going to try it for my own cube even if it is already somewhat designed and up and running.
I wanted to start off with lands and here is where that got me:

Lands is a based green archetype at it's core, but then can take a number of directions depending on color combinations.
The core land cards for me are


This gives you all you need to build around land recursion and self-mill. The decks I see emerging from this are the following:

Naya "wraths": You build around Cataclysm, Balance, Catastrophe, Wildfire, Smokestack and pull ahead with your recursion. You plan on having cards that make the most of these wraths like Knight of the Reliquary, Faith's Reward, Tuktuk the Explorer and ride those to victory.
This is often a GR or GW deck, but I've seen it pop up as a RW deck too!

RWb stax from CubeTutor.com













Abzan stax: In addition to the white wraths from Naya, we have Death Cloud and Braids, Cabal Minion joining in on the fun. Black has a ton of recursive threats that minimize the sacrifice aspect of these cards. The addition of The Gitrog Monster is a huge game as well.

BG stax from CubeTutor.com












Jund ramp: Whether it's via mana rocks or spells/creatures, Wildfire and Death Cloud shine when you have a mana advantage on your opponent. The black recursive creatures allow you the time you need to set up these devastating cards.

BGr land ramp stax from CubeTutor.com












Sultai graveyard: Fill the graveyard with value cards and get your lands back with your green recursion. Gifts Ungiven can set up some nice plays, reanimation can get you some important cards back and blue is great at filling the graveyard.

BUGw gy from CubeTutor.com












One deck that I think can exist that I haven't explored is a Bant landfall deck. It would probably be token orientated since the worthwhile cards I can see are Emeria Angel, Meloku the Clouded Mirror and Avenger of Zendikar. But that seems thin. I like Retreat to Emeria, but it's really slow as is Primeval Bounty. Lotus Cobra would fit into the Jund ramp decks and Hedron Crab would play nicely in Sultai, but I don't see them doing much in this Bant shard.

Anyways, this exercise has been quite enlightening and I plan to try it with the other broad archetypes in my cube!
As always feel free to call me out if you see me spewing nonsense.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

To further my previous post, I realized I didn't mention Temur. I see this as mostly a value pairing where you try to use your lands as fodder for the various discard outlets (Faithless Looting, Chart a Course, Looter Il-Kor, ...). You don't mind discarding those lands since you will be getting them back anyways with the "core cards" I highlighted before. This allows you to gain card advantage out of your sifting effects.

To bolster this plan, you will want cards that allow you to return lands to your hand. On color bouncelands seem great, as does a guy like Meloku the Clouded Mirror. Coupled with Exploration effects you won't be set back by returning those lands. In blue you also have Kefnet, the Mindful and Trade Routes that could fit. I'm not sure if Trade Routes is powerful enough compared to the other cards I'm running and I have zero experience with Kefnet. Not even sure if he has other synergies.

The multicolored slots are where the payoffs become evident. You have Tatyova, Benthic Druid to abuse all the lands you will be replaying, Borborygmos Enraged is there to close out a game. There is also Mina and Denn, Wildborn or even the new Living Twister that act as enablers and/or payoffs.

In a "normal" 1vs1 cube Molten Vortex would be a contender as well, but I just feel the card is too lacking for multiplayer.

So there it is, lands matter based in green, but that can take on different shapes depending on the shard/wedge you use to accompany the suite. I didn't find anything in Bant yet, so suggestions welcome! Also I'd appreciate people who have played with Kefnet, the Mindful and Trade Routes to chime in their experience as I don't have any!
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Nanonox said:
So there it is, lands matter based in green, but that can take on different shapes depending on the shard/wedge you use to accompany the suite. I didn't find anything in Bant yet, so suggestions welcome! Also I'd appreciate people who have played with Kefnet, the Mindful and Trade Routes to chime in their experience as I don't have any!
Click to expand...
Trade Routes has been decent in the Inventor's Fair, as the format is meant for long and grindy games, it gives you an outlet to convert your lands into resources in the late game, most of the other time is there as a threat to pair with Drake Haven to act as a Goblin Trenches.

I think it could be alright in your cube thanks to Ramunap Excavator and friends in making it more useful, but it is a little too do nothing and durdly to compete with the higher looking power of your cube.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I think you are right, that even though it's a late game engine, it's a slow one that probably won't have time to shine in my cube due to the pressure from the pressure of high power level and the fact it's a multiplayer environment.

I've been trying to expose my spells archetypes in the same way that I did for lands and I have to admit, I'm having trouble!

For me, the spells matter decks resolve around either casting a large amount of spells triggering various effects or having them in your GY (via casting them or self-mill/discard) and getting value out of that.

The core cards as being:


I see my spells deck going in four directions:

Jeskai: Tokens. A classic here. Flood the board thanks to your payoff cards and token makers and go wide. The usual suspects:


Once you have these guys on the board you can play some token makers Sram's Expertise, Tempt with Vengeance, some removal or draw spells and close out the game via damage Rally the Peasants, Goblin Bombardment or card advantage like Bident of Thassa.
With white being more creature centric, it's tough to pull off a solid Boros spells deck, but Izzet and Azorius do fine.

What I don't like here is that it's hard to aggro/tempo out a table of 3-4 and also that white is very creature-centric. This means that most of the spells come from blue and sometimes red. Also there aren't all that many payoffs in white except Mentor and Shrine.

Is it crazy to include spells matter themes and then ditch Jeskai? Jeskai would become a more creature token based archetype centered around artifacts. Having them do both seems like total overkill.

Sultai: GY value. You self-mill or cast your spells, and you gain value from them with the suite of


You can set up your graveyard with some of the following spells:
Thought Scour, Chart a Course, Thirst for Knowledge, Frantic Search, Gifts Ungiven, Life from the Loam, Enter the Gods-Eternal, Discovery // Dispersal.

The deck is not explosive and is built for the long game. However it is dependent on the blue spells so it will be either Dimir, Simic or Sultai. It has a lot of overlap with the Sultai lands deck and the finishers are usually taken from that shell. Golgari graveyard is built around creatures so it won't come together as a spells based guild.

Temur: GY value. This is similar to Sultai, but here we use more cards that copy your spells for card advantage. Sigh wrote a great post here and I was inspired by the discussion.


Clan Defiance, Devil's Play, Slagstorm and Expansion // Explosion are great cards to copy to close out a game. They also help give Temur a different identity than Sultai while having similar play style.

The two UGr/b decks have a lot of overlap, but I'm having trouble tying them to the traditional Jeskai spells token decks. In Temur, Young Pyromancer is just a good blocker. Is that enough?

Grixis: "Storm". I would really like to support a more explosive spells type deck, but I just don't see how to make it non-poisonous.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

So things are getting more and more refined and I'm getting pretty happy with my white section.
I added an ETB package in white with:



This goes well with green (Earthcraft, Beast Whisperer, Managorger Hydra) and other ETB creatures obviously and gives white a different identity than just tokens.
I'm hoping the Paradox Engine and Syndic of Tithes, slot well into existing spells archetypes as well. I will keep an eye on the Engine because I'm afraid that it's just way too busted with a few mana dorks/rocks.

I am unsure about a few slots:
Angel of Serenity: Cool card with a lot of play to it, but I don't see it as needed with what white is doing. Is it crazy to cut it since I do have a few reanimator cards in white and it's great with Sneak Attack.
I want to add in Tithe as a way to give white spells a boost. I would be cutting one of the following similar effects: Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer or Oreskos Explorer (keep in my mind this is multiplayer for the Explorer).
Thalia, Heretic Cathar: This is a great aggro card, but it doesn't fit into any existing archetype except "aggro". Is that a bad thing? Should I just replace it with Blind Obedience for spells?

Any insight appreciated, thanks!
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

At this point I'm just spamming everyone, but tough cookies :p
I wanted to share 3 UG decks that I built from the latest changes to my list. I built a creature-centric one, a spell based one and a generic good stuff.

Here is the creature deck. It's a ramp, ETB hybrid. I said I wanted to watch Paradox Engine and it did not disappoint. There is an infinite combo here, but I'm fine with it as it takes a lot of cards to get going. Also happy to see that the "white" ETB package can be played in other shells.

UG infinite bounce from CubeTutor.com












For the next one, I say UG, but this one has a health dose of red. Still using it to show the range.

Temur spells from CubeTutor.com












For the last deck, I wanted to pick the best card out of every pack, just to see if the deck can be coherent (i.e. not too many isolated pieces that poison the draft). I got a generic UG deck that is perfectly functional.

UG good stuff from CubeTutor.com












My question to you is, do you think the more synergy-based decks have a chance against the generic good stuff one?
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

So I got to test the cube out this Friday. We weren't supposed to be playing with my cube, but something came up with the other so I had to scramble to get all the cards together and sleeved.
We were 3 players and so we drafted 9 packs of 15 cards each, picking one and burning two for each pick. That way we end up drafting the whole cube.

I first picked a Titania, Protector of Argoth and then tried to draft around it. I had a hard time figuring out what color to pair her with as I wasn't getting clear signals. I was in blue for a while, but then opened a Cataclysm and a Knight of the Reliquary and went for Selesnya. I had a small +1/+1 counter theme as well as a token theme so I was trying to tie everything together.

We ended up playing 4 free-for-all multiplayer games where I won 2, Pat won 1 and Med won 1 as well.

Here are the decks:

Med: 1 win

Med BW recursion from CubeTutor.com













Med would have benefited from a few cuts (Archfiend and Mentor at the very least) and had an Altar of Dementia in the SB. It would have been awesome in his deck with Marionette Master, Faith's Reward, Blood Artist and all the reanimate effects.

Pat 1 win:

Pat Jeskai Spells from CubeTutor.com












Pat had a pretty streamlined deck, but left out what I feel are some clutch cards such as Mizzix's Mastery, The Mirari Conjecture, Saheeli, Sublime Artificer, Chart a Course. Still the deck performed well overall.

Me 2 wins:

My GWru Lands from CubeTutor.com













I was happy with how my deck turned out after first picking a Titania. Pretty standard, but I do wish I could have found a +1/+1 counter payoff since I have quite a few in the deck.

Game 1: Med and I curve 2 drop into 3 drop and Pat drops a Thing in the Ice (TitI). He casts a few filtering spells and a Lightning Bolt on my Tireless Tracker before flipping his TitI. Med is able to kill it and I drop a Verdurous Gearhulk. Pat uses Ojutai's Command to bring back the Titi and casts a couple of spells. Med and I try to get a board presence, but Pat is able to flip his TitI with a Rise from the Tides for 7 zombies. All I have is a Verdurous Gearhulk and Med is replaying his small guys, but it won't be enough. Pat goes after Med on his first attack and is left with one card in hand. Med is in trouble and I can't handle the pressure so I cast Cataclysm. However Pat's last card is a Sphinx's Revelation and he's able to rebuild faster than us and takes it down.

Game 2: I keep a great hand with Exploration and a turn 2 Tireless Tracker that get's killed. I follow it up with a Knight of the Reliquary, a Crucible of Worlds and an Avenger of Zendikar for 9 tokens. I took some beats from Med who has a flyer chipping away at my life total. I take out Pat who had a bad draw and I am left in a stand off since Med has a Marionette Master and a Blood Artist. My plant tokens get huge before Med deals with the Avenger but I still can't attack. I need to draw Swords to Plowshares or Gideon Jura and I draw both(!) with a Tezzeret's Gambit. Med dies shortly after. Had he drawn his sac outlet before I found my answer, it would have been a different game!

Game 3: This time Med comes out strong with both a Yahenni, Undying Partisan and a Monastery Mentor. Pat manages to take them both out, but Med has an Unearth for the Yahenni. I'm trying to set up my engines and just kind of durdle around. Yahenni keeps growing because of combat and removal and there is now a Blood Artist and an Oversold Cemetery for Med. Pat manages to land a Thousand-Year Storm and the turn after 2 copies of Rise from the Tides for a total of 14 zombies. Those zombies take me out, but Med kills Pat with some sacrifice and death triggers.

Game 4: I have a great start but Pat and Med team up and manage to recur Duplicant 3 times to take out my Avenger of Zendikar, Titania, Protector of Argoth and Verdurous Gearhulk. I'm still left with all the Avenger tokens that are quite big thanks to a Crucible of Worlds, Exploration and Zuran Orb engine. Pat manages to cast double Slagstorm thanks to Soulfire Grand Master and gain 42 life in the process. However I have a World Shaper and Cataclysm the turn after to shut the game down and slowly whittle down everybody down.

So it ended up a close affair and lots of fun. I do however have a few random thoughts and observations:
  • Titania, Protector of Argoth is way too busted. As much as I love the card I think she is too strong with all the synergy going around. I still think the land deck will be going strong even if she isn't present.
  • In the same vein, Avenger of Zendikar is a house as well. He requires no work but takes over a game.
  • Gideon Jura is still too strong in a 3 player game. His +2 essentially reads kill target player since they suicide and are open to 2 other attacks. I wanted a planeswalker for the Balance/Wildfire decks, but I can't find one I'm happy with.
  • I was missing a green overrun effect for my deck. I had a few situations where I had either a horde of tokens or some huge guys (Crystalline Crawler or Knight of the Reliquary for example) and no way to get them through. A Berserk would have been nice, as would an Ajani, Caller of the Pride or an Overrun type effect. Do any of you have any experience with non-oppressive overruns?
  • Pat first picked Thousand-Year Storm and didn't really like the card in his deck. That is due to the fact he was expecting to storm off, when the card is more of a value engine than a finisher in my mind. Because of this I'm tempted to cut it for another Spells Matter card like Niv-Mizzet, Parun
  • Blood Artist was very strong, but fair. These effects might be too much if a single deck has 2 or 3 (Judith, Sharpshooter). But we shall see when it happens!
  • I would have liked a +1/+1 counter payoff card other than just Rishkar. Maybe I should just give Hardened Scales a shot.
  • Zuran Orb was a good card in my deck, but I worry that it could just stall out games in decks not designed to use it. I'll keep an eye on it!
Thanks for reading and if you have comments/suggestions feel free to share. Thanks!
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

So I haven't posted in a while, but I need help laying out my thoughts, so here goes.

My group just doesn't want to play with lower powered cards. I've been slow to recognize the fact, but now I've accepted it. What that means is that my cube goals have shifted from building a primarily synergistic cube to building a high powered cube where synergistic decks are viable.

What this means is that it's tougher to build clear archetypes since the card pool of viable candidates is restricted. I've found that some small packages can go a long way to making viable synergistic decks. Take this one for example:

RG artifact counters from CubeTutor.com












This is an aggro deck (for multiplayer :p), that manages to mix an artifact, a +1/+1 counter and token theme together.

This is the type of high powered synergy decks that I want the cube to crank out. This deck is able to mix all the themes with some key payoffs (Volt Charge + Hardened Scales, Steel Overseer + Cranial Plating, Domri, Anarch of Bolas + Evolutionary Leap) and some versatile support cards (such as Scrapyard Recombiner).

Here the red +1/+1 counter package in red is


All of the above are decent on their own but can combine for some good times.

For this deck to be viable, I need to avoid grossly overpowered cards that close out games without effort (Cyclonic Rift, Sepulchral Primordial) so that goal doesn't change. It's just a question of finding the right cards for the job. For example, instead of Goblin Rabblemaster, I can just use Krenko. Instead of Thundermaw Hellkite, Skarrgan works well. The power level is obviously lower, but not enough that my players will complain :p

The archetypes I'm looking to support are:

GY spells
Monocolored payoffs, but there are spells in W, B, R and sometimes G.


White and red spells tend to be more aggro/tempo oriented, whereas green and black are more controlish.

I'm not sure if I want to add some payoffs in red (Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Mizzix's Mastery, Chandra, Acolyte of Flame) or keep things simple in blue.

Reanimator
I'm grouping these together, because they operate similarly: fill the GY and reanimate. Black takes care of creatures and red artifacts, but the other colors can help setting things up. I using plenty of artifact creatures to help bridge the two.

BW and RW being a small reanimator
BG more of a self-mill strategy
BU is a controlling reanimator
BR can be artifact or creature reanimator
RU is mostly artifact recursion

Self-mill
Similar to Reanimator yet not. The goal is to fill as much of your graveyard to gain value through it. This tends to be either BG, BU or GU. Regrowth effects, flashback, delve, recursion all help make this deck take over the game. I wasn't able to find a powerful GY aggro deck that works in multiplayer at my power level which is a shame.
I decided to include Laboratory Maniac and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries as a fun build arounds.

I'll try and flesh out more archetypes/"packages" tomorrow.
 
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Nanonox

Nanonox

On a design note, I decided to remove most of the ramp cards. I want to encourage people to curve out and want aggro decks to stand a chance. They already have a tougher time in multiplayer, no need to further accentuate the phenomenon.

Green has



Colorless



I want a few non-creature rocks for Wildfire, Balance, Catastrophe and control decks.

I've been thinking of also adding a couple of artifact creature mana dorks.



They can be used to get ramp into other colors just like the rocks, but they are more vulnerable. On the flip side, they can attack, wear equipment and get +1/+1 counters.

2 questions for you guys:
  1. Does anyone have experience using this kind of colorless mana dork ramp?
  2. Are there any side effects of cutting a bunch of ramp that I haven't forseen?
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

Dimir artifact control

I love artifacts and I try to include them as much as possible in my cube without it being too obvious (I hope :p)

When trying to fit the artifact theme into dimir colors, I had trouble, but I think I've reached a satisfying conclusion that isn't overly narrow, yet distinctive enough from traditional control. I thought I'd share and see what has worked for others. This is undoubtedly a high power archetype from my cube, so it's probably a miss elsewhere.

As any control deck, you want to control the board until you can land your powerful finishers. Card draw helps everything go smoothly.

Draw



All the cards here serve multiple purposes. Sai, Network and Tezzeret act as ways to gum up the ground and to draw cards.
Sphinx (I play multiplayer so he draws 2-3 cards depending on the night) is also a finisher and a mana sink.
Thirst helps you open up graveyard synergies, artifact (Academy Ruins, Torrential Gearhulk and Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge) or other (Necromancy, Dread Return).

Removal



Strix and Capsule are great in multiplayer as they encourage people to go attack elsewhere. Bridge and Gearhulk can recoup some life and Scriptures is hopefully a one sided wrath.

Finishers



While Spell Swindle isn't a finisher it does great things with the two Masters who are. This allows for a fun combo finish. I considered Revel in Riches as another wincon, but I'm afraid it's just cheesy: in a multiplayer game, you only have to cast a wrath and you are close to the 10 treasures required to win.

Graveyard Synergy



In Dimir, the graveyard synergy is mostly linked to some reanimation cards or some spell matter ones, opening up the possibility for a bleed into different archetypes.

Random artifacts



A critical mass of artifacts is required for most of the cards to work well, so the colorless section does a lot of the heavy lifting. Mana rocks, wraths and roadblocks are important to prioritize.

Other colors



This is a complement to the reanimation in black if you want to focus more on the GY.



Red also gives more board control should you get the cards for it.



You can also shift away from the control elements a bit and go hard on the token making for a more aggro/tempo deck.

So there you have it. A small summary of my obsession with artifacts for Dimir. I'd appreciate any and all feedback or other people's experiences with similar decks/cards.

Edit:
Cards I didn't mention


In this particular shell, I think it might be better than Thopter Spy Network. However it's harder to take advantage of the first to chapters in other decks which is why I included the Network.


This guy does it all. He ramps you to your finishers, makes a giant dude to block and "draws" a card. I think he is too high powered even for me and would take over a game. He is among the cards I plan on testing.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

I feel I am close to being happy with the cube. I wanted it to be more synergy than power, but I feel this is still a decent compromise. I've been drafting some decks that are good stuff and others that are spicier.

Here are some I like:

Dimir Labman from CubeTutor.com











RBw artifacts from CubeTutor.com












WG counters from CubeTutor.com











There are a few slots though that I am unhappy with.

Harmonize: I'd like another token payoff in green. Right now I have Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Garruk Wildspeaker. I'm hesitant to play Decimator of Provinces, but it might be one of the better options. Other than that, Song of Freyalise can be solid, but a bit slow for what I'm imagining. Maybe Parallel Lives could be a fun one. It isn't the same kind of payoff as the others, but has inevitability.

Honored Hydra: I really like this card, but I am afraid it is too low powered and should just be something like Primeval Titan. Does it seem out of place?

Harsh Mentor, Kargan Dragonlord: Solid enough 2 drops but unexciting. These are mostly place holders until I find something more to my liking. I'm thinking of cutting one in favor of a Fire Diamond to help Welder and friends as well as Wildfire decks.

Nezumi Graverobber, Mindblade Render: Same thing as in red. These guys are decent, but don't really fit into anything and feel very replaceable. I like the GY hate that the Graverobber brings though. I've been thinking about Oona's Prowler, but I'm afraid that with 2-3 other players she could be an enabler for someone else!

Mishra's Factory: I currently run 2 of these as they seem great in aggro and artifact synergies, but I'm wondering how often they will be played. A colorless land is a pretty big set back. I have room for a third in my colorless section so if they work out, that is another consideration as they get better in multiples.

Riftwing Cloudskate: Good tempo card, but tempo isn't as strong in multiplayer. I was thinking of replacing with Sphinx of Lost Truths that fuels strategies better (GY, control or Wildfire) and also has different decision points. The other card I was eyeing is the versatile Curator of Mysteries. I love cycling and he holds the fort nicely.

I'm cubing tonight with 2 other friends, hopefully I can get some good insight during the draft itself. I'll try and include a report if I have time!
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

I've been thinking about lands lately. What is the smallest land matters package I can run that can still perform. I posted in this very thread before about the subject, but since then, I changed my mind on Cataclysm (GG if you are ahead and a long stalled out game if you are behind due to multiple opponents) and Death Cloud (my drafters didn't really know what to do with it and it was never picked).

Here is what I've found





So mostly Jund colors, with RG being a controlling Wildfire deck or a value discard deck (Seasoned Pyromancer, Faithless Looting) and BG being a Stax deck that attacks mana (and hand with Rankle, Master of Pranks and Liliana of the Veil).
There might be a BR build focused on planeswalkers and hand disruption, but the lack of land recursion would make it tricky to take advantage of these mechanisms.

What I'm hesitating with: (experiences/opinions welcome!)

I'm not 100% on Cavalier of Flame, but it works with Wildfire, discard and tokens as a bonus. The downside is really the casting cost, but I have good fixing.

Tuktuk, the Explorer ticks a few boxes including surviving Wildfire, creating an artifact token and playing well with sacrifice themes.

Greater Gargadon is a solid card on it's own, but I think not playing the white wraths makes it too narrow.

Living Twister is another option, but I don't necessarily want to dedicate a second guild slot to a minor archetype and I'm not 100% sure how well it would scale in MP games. 2 damage is pretty lowly.

Elvish Reclaimer could slot into the decks, but I already have Satyr Wayfinder, Harrow, Springbloom Druid, Grapple with the Past to fill the GY and I don't have very many utility lands to fetch.

Ob Nixilis, the Fallen has a big butt and puts those green recursion/ramp spells to use. Can close out the game quickly but is a bit of a removal check.

Knight of the Reliquary seems great, but I don't play with Balance or Cataclysm and don't want to send the wrong signal to my drafters that GW lands is a thing.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

On another note, I'm trying to spruce up my Simic section and Throne of Eldraine has given me some ideas to tie things up with older cards. I am a sucker for artifacts and getting green in on the action is a goal of mine. TrainmasterGT brought up the +1/+1 counters in his post and I believe I'm making progress in adding to it.



Here we have 3 themes. Ramp, +1/+1 counters and value. I want to have as many cards fit into the 3 themes as possible and I think Birthing Pod will be the value theme I use since it's an artifact, it's a fun card and it works well with the other cards I have in mind.

+1/+1 counters (and proliferate)

I won't elaborate on this theme, since as mentioned, trainmasterGT covered it. I found that it works well inside my cube, isn't poisonous and it has enabled some fun decks (like the RG one I posted a while back).



Payoffs


I'm not sure I want to run Roalesk as he is just very strong on his own and will probably overshadow any potential synergies. Tezzeret's Gambit isn't great in blue, but I love that it gives red and white a divination with upside. It's obviously also very good in these types of green shells.

Enablers



This bleeds nicely into red for Goblin Welder/Daretti, Scrap Savant or white for Blade Splicer/Sram's Expertise/Angel of Invention.

Others


Oko is just there as a value walker that benefits from proliferate and can give UG some needed removal.




Ramp


The goal here isn't to reinvent the wheel. It's to chose the right cards that fit into multiple shells. The tricky part is finding the right amount of ramp spells!


Payoffs
,,,


Ramp spells


This is in addition to the "regular" green ramp (Birds of Paradise, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Harrow, ect.).
I chose to use the untappers as ramp since they can also untap artifacts. This is important for The Great Henge and Birthing Pod. Urza is bonkers and gets even better with the random food/clue tokens Oko, Goose and Tireless Tracker create.

I tend to avoid the enchant land ramp variants (Wild Growth and co) because I find it hard to interact with them. I'd rather play more dorks even if there is less synergy. I could be wrong on this and would love other people's opinions on this issue.


Pod

You guys know all about Pod, but I think it is a great engine to run in Simic. Green has a history of crappy 4CC pod targets, but blue doesn't! It's also a whole new archetype for a mere 2 cards which seems worth it (ala Wildfire).


Engine


This list is missing Prime Speaker Vannifar because I'm afraid he is too fragile as a creature to accumulate long term value. Tezzeret the Seeker is also a consideration, but seems narrow outside of Ramp and Pod decks.

Targets (artifact matters)


Trinket Mage seems particularly great as it can get some nice +1/+1 counter cards (Walker, Ballista) or ramp targets (Chalice).
These ETB artifact matters cards mostly make tokens which fits perfectly with the +1/+1 counter artifact enablers.

I will try and draft some lists after incorporating the cards to my list. I have high hopes since most of these cards fit in different shells, have a decent power level on their own.
 
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Nanonox

Nanonox

So I finally got around to logging the decks into cubetutor from our cube draft back in September or something. We were 3 drafters Pat, Nico and myself.
We drafted the whole cube with 9 packs of 15 cards. Pick one, burn 2 (so 5 cards per pack).

Here is what we drafted:
Pat (2 wins)

Pat Izzet artifacts from CubeTutor.com












Me (2 wins)

My Mardu artifacts from CubeTutor.com












Nico (0 wins)

Nico boros from CubeTutor.com












The draft itself was long because I tend to cube cards they aren't used to seeing. Also, our draft method is not optimal to put it nicely. It's impossible to read signals since stuff gets cut fast, so next time I will offer to pick 1 and pass 5 times and to burn the last 10 cards. That way we still see most of the cube and we have to take signaling into account.

G1
I keep a hand with a turn 2 Treasure Map, a Midnight Reaper and a Phyrexian Scriptures.
Pat goes turn 2 Walking Ballista for 1.
Nico had a turn one Bonesplitterand turn 2 Kargan Dragonlord.
I play Map and pass. Pat plays and equips Bloodforged Axe and slams into me creating a token.
Nico equips his dude and slams me also and all of a sudden, I'm almost dead!
I get to the point where I can flip my Map, create some Treasures so I can play Phyrexian Scriptures + Volt Charge.
However, both Pat and Nico each have artifact creatures who survive the wrath and I die.
Pat goes on to create some Thopters and closes out the game thanks to his 5 or something Bloodforged Axes!

G2
I had a bunch of gargabe in my deck that I wanted to try, but the games were way to fast for that. So I slim down my deck.
This one starts off similar with a Bloodforged Axe, but I am able to remove the creature. Nico is stuck on 4 lands for a long time, but he is surviving thanks to his turn 2 Syndic of Tithes and a bunch of instants (Chaos Warp, Cast Out, Lightning Helix).
Pat and I are hitting each other, but he has a Pia and Kiran Nalaar that are keeping my dudes at bay (I had a Shrine of Loyal Legions just waiting for my Steel Overseer, but no window to activate him. Eventually I have to go for it, but fall one damage short. Nico is getting out of his mana screw and lands a lethal Siege-Gang Commander (not enough mana to sac a goblin) but Pat manages to set him back with a Fiery Confluence and resolves an Urza, Lord High Artificer to take away the game at 1 life.

G3
I have a decent start and curve out. I am able to hit both players a bit. Nico starts to get an insane board with a Silverblade Paladin and a Shaman of the Great Hunt + tokens, so Pat and I go to take him out. We don't quite succeed, but that leaves everybody with low life. I am able to Reanimate the Shaman and surprise kill Patrick who thought we were allies. I also cast a Marionette Master as a 4/6 to hold off Nico's team.
He gets me down to 3 life and dead to a Helix should he draw it. I am however able to get in for the last 10 points with a Daretti, Scrap Savant + Perilous Myr + Marionette Master.

G4
I once again have an early Treasure Map along with Shrine + Overseer. This time I can make 3 dudes and pump them each twice before my Overseer dies again (having used Reanimate on it once)
We all hit each other and Patrick is going nuts with Thopters and Bloodforged Axe. I can land a Marionette Master and kill him with the Treasures of my flipped Treasure Map. I then draw a God-Eternal Bontu and sacrifice my tokens to deal 20+ damage over 2 turns.

The take away
  • I may have gone nuts on the artifacts. I had first picked a Marionette Master so wanted to go down that route, while Pat opened an Urza and wanted to try him out.
  • Both decks played out different enough that I am happy. Nico had a bunch of artifact tokens but no real artifact synergy.
  • The format was way faster than anticipated. I had to sideline Phyrexian Arena which is usually a bomb in our multiplayer games, but here I couldn't take turn 3 off to do nothing.
  • The faster format wasn't a bad thing. During the four games we played the games never dragged on and the first player eliminated never had long to wait.
  • The players enjoyed the draft and liked seeing different cards than the usual super powerful ones they usually use, so that is a win.
  • I am disapointed that green wasn't played, but that is probably due to Pat and me going down an artifact route and green not synergizing with the color very much. (I hope to have fixed this!)
  • Because of all the artifacts, I am going to be trying to up the removal (second Abrade? Second Reclamation Sage? Forsake the Wordly?)
Individual cards
  • Bloodforged Axe was insane all night long. In a 3 player game, finding an open player isn't as hard and many copies were made.
  • Marionette Master took over the game the two times it was cast. Granted once I had a flipped Treasure Map for 12 damage, but still very efficient and was underestimated by Pat and Nico
  • Thopter tokens were tough to deal with! I am unsure if this was a freak occurrence or not but they were a constant source of damage.
  • Phyrexian Arena was too slow and this makes me look at other grindy card advantage engines in a different light. I will have to playtest more to see if fluke or not.
  • Chainer Nightmare Adept was a sweet card. Granting haste, being a discard outlet and a reanimator tool made it very versatile in my deck. It's vulnerable, but with all the other must answer threats it's possible that it can survive!
  • I had doubts about Mishra's Factory but it played out very well and was a fair manland. Not a high pick but a solid utility land.
  • We agreed that Urza, Lord High Artificer was probably too high powered for my list. We saw it bring a 7/7 construct with him, reveal a Meteor Golem off the top and ramp a lot. We'll give him another shot first though.
  • Phyrexian Scriptures was lousy with all the incidental artifact creatures lying around. Going to be looking for another wrath effect in black.
  • Plague Engineer is coming in to deal with all the tokens as well as being a nice roadblock making others go attack elsewhere.
Anyways, was a fun experience which I definitely prefer over the powered cube Pat has because it always feels like the lottery to open (or not) power/fast mana. The others enjoyed themselves also but will need an adjustment period since this is new!
Thanks for reading :)
 
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