Sets [THB] Theros Beyond testing/includes thread

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
So, what are you testing / including in your cubes?

Cards I am interested in (part 1):

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I just realized I misread Tectonic Titan as firing only when the opponent targeted it. No wonder I thought it was complete jank!
 
Hero of the Nyxborn I was interested in, but I feel like I could just use
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and/or
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for roughly the same power level without cutting a Boros card. So those two are includes since I have a Feather, the Redeemed theme. I also really like
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as a "weaker" makeshift munitions, I just wish it said "creature or enchantment" for interesting shenanigans. More of a maybe, speaking of enchantments
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There are other great enchantments, but these ones caught my eye and are definitely being tested. They really want me to run
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For an enchantment theme in likely Bant colors, but I don't know if I'm ready for that kind of a commitment.
 
This is a testing/includes thread. Post pictures or a text list using /c with what cards you plan to include and what cards you plan to test.

I keep hearing people say THB is "uninspired," "safe" or "weak," which I just don't get at all. Escape is probably the single most pushed mechanic in years- I would say since Delve. I think this set suffers a little bit from a lack of focus at lower rarities (The design team seemed to have no idea what they were
doing with red for limited- hence giving us very disjointed heroic/ferocious/sacrifice/instants matter theme), but that doesn't make the set bad. Arguably if they had cut the random disjointed red limited archetypes and just made more proper escape/constellation cards in their place, I think the set would feel a lot better in my opinion. It absolutely baffles me that black had no constellation after being basically the primary color for the mechanic in Journey into Nyx.

My biggest issue here (and hence the reason why I waited so long to make this thread) was one thing: the Constellation mechanic. I want to try making an enchantment theme work again in my cube, and I was hoping for some new Constellation gas, but that didn't really happen. They new constellation cards we did get are close to being good enough for me, and all of the new sagas and "incidental enchantments" have forced me to consider bringing back enchantments.deck. In the end, I decided to just split my includes section into "Includes" and "Include if I go back to Enchantments" sections.

Includes:
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Includes for Enchantress
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(Decided to split this into two posts so that I could put more cards into the "try" category)

Test if I open/feel like it.
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My baby boy all grown up:
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THB would be the best cube set in years if it weren't following exactly Modern Horizons andThrone of Eldraine. Although the new selection of red cards sort of leaves something to be desired, I would argue that red is the color that needs the least help anyway for cube, so a couple of new escape additions and little else isn't actually bad. Enchantress might finally be viable for a range of cubes now instead of only working at power levels where Grim Guardian is a bomb card. Either way, good set, 8 out of 10 Polukranos Heads, needs more Constellation.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I just realized I misread Tectonic Titan as firing only when the opponent targeted it. No wonder I thought it was complete jank!

Resources on the internet tell me The First Iroan Games is the best three drop to follow up a Llanowar Elves since the invention of sliced bread. The same source told me that Phoenix of Ash is the best 3 mana Phoenix ever. Don't sleep on this set! :)

I'm personally super stoked about Anax, Hardened in the Forge, as an aggressive red three drop that leaves bodies behind. This is excellent for aggressive decks, as it allow them to keep swarming the board and attacking even in the face of removal.

Another one I'm excited to add is Aphemia, the Cacaphony. An evasive two drop that synergizes with Zur the Enchanter. Even if it gets to exile only one enchantment, that's four power for two mana. Seems like an excellent rate to me!
 
Looking at the spoilers, I actually find a lot of cards I want to add and try. Some cards might actually be too strong for the powerlevel I want to have, but it looks like there's a lot that's at least debatable. It also depends if enchantments is going to be a thing in my list or not.

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I just love sagas, and those all look great (the blue one's way too pushed), but I'm afraid none of these will make the cut as they're still pretty strong.
White compares to The Eldest Reborn, I'm going to see if one of those will make the cut (I guess it will be TER).
Black compares to History of Benalia, which throws two vigilant 2/2 bodies to the table for 3 mana, which is strong and boring. For this one, you need to do some more work, it also supports gy strategies and scry and lifegain are very nice to have as an upside which rewards you for drafting some more zombies. Really looking forward to this one.
Red one looks interesting, but I'm absolutely not sure what to think of it. Temporary Control Magic, which is a card I find to be too strong for my environment, and also a Wave of Reckoning/Solar Blaze. It's quite awkward, but I'll give it a go.
Green one is strong, but you'll have to wait 4 turns to get everything out of it, and your opponent is able to interact perfectly with it in the given time. 1/1 token, three +1/+1 counters, draw two cards if p>3, one time ramp/fixing. It does a lot, but if your opponent is able to disrupt the draw effect, the card is obv not going to do much. I also don't like Gold token that much.

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If I'm going deep on enchantments/heroic, those are all cards I'm going to consider.

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Those two are also cards I'd consider to add, although I think they might be too strong, especially the archon.

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Consider those two for an UG Mill deck together with Hedron Crab.

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Those three look interesting, but I also fear them being too strong.
 
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I love the escape mechanic, but I don't know if some of those cards end up being too damn strong. It's like a fixed, repeatable delve mechanic, it is a payoff in self mill decks, it enables prowess decks, it makes me think about cards like Burning Vengeance, Secrets of the Dead and Thalia's Geistcaller. I'm just really excited!

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Love that design, reminds me of 'draw 2nd card' in Eldraine, and it's in the same colours. Chimera looks very interesting for more aggressive UR decks, but Izzet has so many interesting cards in its gold section that I don't know if this would make the cut.

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Other cards I'm interested in, some of them are even auto-include. :)
Power 4 matters does have some nice new cards in RG, might test them, too.
 

Like 3 people asked me to make a thread, and I didn't have a lot of time to troll the forums yesterday, I just didn't see it. If I get asked for something, at least give me 24 hours to do it before making a new thing (or at least msg/tag me telling me you did it). I don't always have a ton of time to spend online.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Like 3 people asked me to make a thread, and I didn't have a lot of time to troll the forums yesterday, I just didn't see it. If I get asked for something, at least give me 24 hours to do it before making a new thing (or at least msg/tag me telling me you did it). I don't always have a ton of time to spend online.
I had no ill intent. I just thought it's a bit lazy to ask you for this when it's five minutes of work, might as well do it myself. I didn't even think about messaging you because the thread is right there in plain sight. So you missed that, no problem, nothing bad happened, I'm not blaming you. And it's easily fixed, but we need a mod for that, hence my reply. It was not meant as a diss towards you, sorry if it came across that way! Words on the internet, right? :)
 
Don't feel like flooding this with images, but 26 potential THB cards added to The Black Cube list: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/theblackcube

And 32 potentially added to Shards 2.0 -1: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/2xo

-1 picked up some crucial density on enchantments from this set, which is why the count is so damn high. And The Black Cube's devotion and graveyard themes also ate this set up. -1 has a power matters theme, but all the cards were too good once a mana was shaved.
 

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Trainmaster probably has the same issue as me; takes like 24 hours to write an in-depth post. Keep it in the preview window, leave it up overnight so you can think clearer (save it in a text file incase the window dies).
Onder has never been one to incite malice, hence the smiley face in his reply.

I haven't even looked at the whole spoiler yet, so I have no idea what I like out of this set yet (I will do my Type 4 review at some point).
Anax, Hardened in the Forge seems really cool though.
 
After a great core set and the incredible Eldrain, Theros 2 is a bit of a flop for me. But that is okay, gives me time to analyze all the new 2019 cards and by now it has become super difficult to get into my cube for new cards that don't fulfill very specific needs, like being the 3rd Wild Mongrel or another great blue landfall permanent etc. Anyway, here are my includes:

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Yeeeaah, that's it. This guy is the selfmill 2-drop is was craving for in black but also happens to be great for lifegain aggro, as well as generally useful as a cheap deathtoucher

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Could very well be an upgrade over Blazing Hellhound, at least does something different and looks fun. I also wanna sac Demonic Pact to it.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I'm testing more than I set out to even. The RW heroic guys have been cool. I already increased the number of combat tricks in my cube after I added Feather, so they fit right in!

Another card that unexpectedly tested well so far was Elspeth's Nightmares. Like, this is a straight 2-for-1 in the early game, though it obviously gets less good as the game progresses.

I'm getting a lot of mileage out of D'avenant Trapper since there's so many new historic cards in this set!
 
So far I've got the following cards on my Acquire/Test list:



In blue it's mostly just more support for the UW Blink archetype. Alirios has intrigued me since I first saw it as it's a lot of stats on a decent body and can get really out of hand with any blink shenanigans. It reminds me of that Commander card that made sculptures that couldn't do anything until it died. Conjurer's Closet is too cute in anything aside from EDH, but Thassa comes down a turn earlier and allows you to curve right into it after a 3 drop (like Alirios) and can eventually turn into a beatstick all on her own to close out the game. She's splashy enough to be played in a Bant blink shell and I think she'll be pretty effective as an archetype signpost.

Intervention is just there to be a flexible counterspell/DTT hybrid, nice utility spell to reach a critical mass of effects.



For black the addition of enchantment creatures has made me want to revisit BG Constellation as a potential archetype. Aphemia is playable at its base as a 2/1 flier for 2, but will shine if it can generate 1-2 more bodies. I see it as a dual early threat + late game card as it can re-populate a decimated board if you have enchantments in the graveyard.

Woe Strider does a lot as a sac outlet and brings its goat buddy along to serve as fodder to block and smooth out your draws. I don't like extreme support for something like Aristocrats, but incidental cards like this are perfect since they're good roleplayers elsewhere. I'm interested in seeing how good Escape is in practice.

Nightmare Shepherd looks like another sweet piece for Aristocrat-styled decks, also just seems good in a generic grindy B/x shell full of creatures with ETB effects. The baseline 4/4 flier for 4 is playable on its own and the enchantment typing makes it even more attractive for incidental synergies with stuff like Delirium.

Eat to Extinction is just going to be swapped in for Vraska's Contempt which was a wee bit too efficient for my liking with the lifegain. "Surveil" is a nice ability to have and will be randomly useful in things like a reanimator shell. The art is gross though. Yuck.



More stuff for potential Enchantress/Constellation decks! I really like the Champion as a creature that can curve into bigger enchantments. Much like Beast Whisperer, Eidolon of Blossoms always felt one mana too high up the curve to set up as an engine, but this slots in really nicely with current cards available. Being able to curve into Nightmare Shepherd + something like Doomwake Giant right after could be an absolute beating and grind you through slower matchups.

The introduction of Sagas in the last two years makes me really want to visit Delirium again as now we can more easily get an additional card type into the graveyard. Iroan Games slots well into a GB Delirium, Enchantress, and in my U/G Simic decks with the counter mode. This looks very powerful if you're able to fire off the 2nd and 3rd modes in sequence.



Uro is mostly a replacement for Oko who was a dumb fucking card to play with. The ETB effect is nice and I'm a fan of the reanimation not being so easy to pull off as other big dumb fatties. I don't know how easy it'll actually be to have this Escape in Simic colors, but using it early as a Growth Spiral and then being able to cash in on used up cards in the late game seems like a fine play pattern to me.

I really have high hopes for Shadowspear as far as equipment goes. It's cheap enough to deploy reasonably early, equip cost isn't too high, and it mimics the best parts of Loxodon Hammer which was always way too slow for my environment. I can see this doing good work and staying in my cube for the long haul.
 
Since I removed the enchantments archetype from the cube, and graveyard is more like madness now, there really isn't much for me in this set.

Cards I might test. Maybe.


for UG Flash


because they are cool.


reanimation target and control finisher.


Near misses:

Cards I want to test, but won't because they lack reminder text for devotion:


Cards that again almost made heroic worth it:


Things that almost convinced me to get the enchantments archetype back:
 
I haven't really absorbed the whole spoiler yet but right now there's only a couple of cards I want to try



Nightmare Shepherd seems insanely strong with all the good ETBs I'm playing, it might end up being a bit over the top. Anax seems very solid and another tool for base red go-wide decks.

I'm also quite interested by Woe Strider, the rate on it is good and it's another free sac outlet, but I don't know if I really need it right now.
 
After seeing it on a few of your inclusions and re-reading the card, I'm going to be giving Anax a run as well. Being able to thousand cuts my opponent in a B/R deck with a combo of recursive dudes + Goblin Bombardment sounds hilariously fun. Bummer that he lost the human typeline though.
 
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