Article Top 8 Most Oppressive Cube Cards
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
This is pretty much what bugs me with most cards that are deemed too powerful. People usually say "this is too good/weak" in a vacuum while there are plenty of factors that account for a card being overpowered or not. Just this weekend, for instance, I saw a player lose a game with a Wurmcoil Engine equipping a Sword of War and Peace and I know that none of the cards in the article list were involved (don't ask me how the game ended, though).
I guess what makes Armageddon and Nether Void looks interesting are environments that are not prone to have decks with a too high of a curve and with plenty of aggro support.Moat is pretty much the opposite, as it might be a good card for slower environments but it is terrible to play against if your cube is meant to be fast. I think I could see some multiplayer/EDH cubes play Moat profitably, but I'm sure it doesn't align with what I want in my cube right now.
Armageddon sometimes produces super fun games and sometimes is like "oh, I guess we're done playing Magic already".
That's what I meant. How to make those cards produce fun games is the real question. I stand by my proposition of the fun-factor of these cards being determined by the speed of the environment. If the answer to "Why did you lose to Armageddon?" is "My deck doesn't do anything relevant until turn 4" then either there is a deckbuilding issue or 'geddon just doesn't belong in this environment as the decks won't be able to handle it.
There's a pretty big gap for Armageddon to succeed between the opponent "not doing anything relevant until Turn 4" and "not being ahead at the start of Turn 4".
EDIT: I also get the feeling that many white aggro sections massively underperform without their signature card.
EDIT: I also get the feeling that many white aggro sections massively underperform without their signature card.
CML
Contributor
everyone is always being ironic, whether they know it or not.
interesting connect for geddon >> black vise or sulfuric vortex, 'the laziest possible way to bridge the power gap between 2/1 and jtms.'
fwiw i think it's not as clunky as rebel errata, and somewhat fair in cubes without many mana rocks
interesting connect for geddon >> black vise or sulfuric vortex, 'the laziest possible way to bridge the power gap between 2/1 and jtms.'
fwiw i think it's not as clunky as rebel errata, and somewhat fair in cubes without many mana rocks
I don't believe it is just being ahead that makes geddon auto-win. Pairity or just below it also doesn't make it a game winning card. You have two creatures on board, your opponent have one sized about your biggest creature and suddenly geddon is uncastable. You play it against a control opponent with mana open then eats removal just to see your opponent untaps and plays whatever and gedon didn't win you the game as well. Both of these situations surfaced in the past two or so months in my cube. I have seen gedon take game one, but never the whole match.
What situations have you encountered that made geddon win the game by itself?
I am not sure I can comment on white aggro underperforming without geddon because monocoloured decks are almost never played in my cube. I think the problem lies with cubes having too many efficient card advantage spells to play in the early to mid game that makes racing a losing strategy. Some cards that I have seen make white aggro better: Hokori and Thalia(I know, it's land denial as well, probably shouldn't mention), Hero of Bladehold, Ajani Goldmane, Elspeth, Accorder Paladin, Mikaeus and Mirror Entity.
(Disclaimer: I'm not trying to bully people into playing armageddon or something, I just want to pull the discussion to a point where we can safely say that we understand what makes cards oppressive and what makes them being fun. I know that I am kind of in a weird position to say anything about oppressive cards since I play with a powered list, but my friends love to play with abusive over-powered cards, and I believe my job running the cube is to try and make sure that these cards are played in a context that they can be as much fun to everyone as possible.)
There are indeed many factors, and I've seen people lose after casting Armageddon or simply get it stuck in their hand. In a lower CMC cube it's not the most overpowered, but it is particularly oppressive against decks that already struggle in my environment, high CMC decks. Maybe that's another issue entirely. But aggro wants to extend the early game as long as possible, and there's basically no better way to do that than by using Armageddon.
It's a tricky card because it has very memorable plays in each direction, and I wonder if anecdotes can be misleading. I don't know if we're going to draw a clear line in the sand between oppressive and fun, or even that the two are mutually exclusive.
FWIW the "microdrafting" idea I am playing with is all about short games driven by highly swingy effects, and I think context matters a lot here. What a lot of cubes do poorly is have a lack of cohesion, with some archetypes trying to do something "fair" only to get blown out by something that they don't have the tools to interact with. Vintage for example is a circus of oppressive BS and it looks glorious.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I actually love me some ankh. It's pressure sure, but I actually think that sulfuric vortex is the better card, and both are totally beatable.
Also sometimes you get the absolutly hilarious red deck with like 4 fetchlands, Plated Geopede and an Ankh of Mishra going "Eeeeh, should I do it?"
Zozu has been pretty mediocre. I wish he was just a little bit better, like he cost
or something.
Upheval is fine if you limit the number of artifacts which cost 3 or cheaper and accellerate you more than one turn, which you should honestly be doing anyways. The strongest piece like that I run is worn powerstone, and upheval is a strong but not broken card.
Armageddon has actually been a sweet and interactive card here, since you really need to wait for the right time to pull the trigger. Nether Void is worse since control decks can get out from under it, but you mostly can't, but it might be close enough to consider.
I don't know why anyone would want to run the abyss, that just seems way too good.
Also sometimes you get the absolutly hilarious red deck with like 4 fetchlands, Plated Geopede and an Ankh of Mishra going "Eeeeh, should I do it?"
Zozu has been pretty mediocre. I wish he was just a little bit better, like he cost
or something.Upheval is fine if you limit the number of artifacts which cost 3 or cheaper and accellerate you more than one turn, which you should honestly be doing anyways. The strongest piece like that I run is worn powerstone, and upheval is a strong but not broken card.
Armageddon has actually been a sweet and interactive card here, since you really need to wait for the right time to pull the trigger. Nether Void is worse since control decks can get out from under it, but you mostly can't, but it might be close enough to consider.
I don't know why anyone would want to run the abyss, that just seems way too good.