Turillazzo's Innistrad (?) Cube (252)

T

Turillazzo

Hey there, long time lurker.

I'm a part-time cube designer that is taking inspiration from Riptide cubes and generally speaking fun cubes around the globe to try to get to something interesting.

This is what I'm trying to do this time: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/30040

First of all, let's explain the 252 size: the thing is designed to be drafted by 6-players (possibly in teams, I guess) in packs of 14. That's also because of the small playgroups I usually can manage to gather.
The thing hasn't been tested yet and won't be in a while because school stuff etc. so feedback is welcome, since I would like to perfect this as much as I can, at least to do what can I do with a theoretical eye :)

So far, the overall environment is meant to be pretty fast and aggressive (average CMC is 2.63 which is pretty low as far as I can tell) but with plenty of options for decks to use graveyard-based engines to recur stuff and transition into the late game; in a way, since all decks could be equipped to do so, there is not a strong division between archetypes, but most players will find themselves in a certain place on the aggro-midrange scale (v. Grillo's last article), with an important tactical emphasis on understanding who's the beatdown and how you should plan your tempo plays.

Interaction is not really easy to create when there is not much mana to do so, yet themes (mostly haphazardly split among colors - maybe this could be fixed) are:
Five cards, one per color, are a little more narrow and are squadron'd, so that if you pick up one copy you automatically have the other one without the need to look for it (if two people pick them at the same time it really messes up the draft): those are Enduring Renewal, Laboratory Maniac, Death's Shadow, Burning Vengeance and Birthing Pod (I'm calling it a green card even though it's probably more green-black).
I guess I have a lot of questions for ya but can't bring them all up in a moment so they'll come back at random. Today's is: how's Deal Broker for you? I guess it's a powerful pick, but is it an almost-always-1st? Also, how does it vary from traditional draft to team draft?
Thanks in advance ^^
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I had a lot of fun with this draft:

GrilloParlante's draft of Innistrad! (it's all about Tempo and Graves) on 05/06/2015 from CubeTutor.com











Really like a lot of the stuff you have going on, and will have to borrow some ideas for my own format. I really liked breaking singleton on memory lapse, and harbinger of night seems like a really interesting card. Ogre slum lord also seems really interesting. I was so mad that lab. maniac never showed up in the draft.

I would have liked better fixing, and really missed the TOL tutors. Lim-dul's vault is an engine in these types of cubes.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I agree with Grillo, I would really love better fixing. I didn't see a single B/G land all draft, which isn't too surprising since there are only two. The options you do run are very painful. Four Mana Confluence and several painlands? I would love some more options that don't cost me half my life total please! :) I recommend at least 3 reasonable options per color combination. Battlefield Forge is fine for an aggressive Boros deck that wants to drop threats from turn 1 onwards, but Adarkar Wastes really hurts a slower Azorius control deck. I'ld probably rather play Azorius Guildgate in that deck. Mana Confluence is even worse, because you don't even have the option of tapping it for colorless.

Another thing about the mana fixing is that a lot of cards are very color intensive, which exacerbates the problem. I drafted a deck with both Bloodghast, which I really want to run considering the theme, and Vorapede, which I really want to run because of the power level of that card. {B}{B} and {G}{G}{G} don't play well together though when you can't get enough mana fixing. I shipped a Geralf's Messenger halfway through the draft because I realized I was never going to be able to cast it. I obviously ended up in the most color intensive color combination, but it's still a thing to keep in mind.

Onderzeeboot's BG draft from CubeTutor.com










 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

UG Ruinator Grave-Troll from CubeTutor.com











Can't add more than what has already been said! If there is a budget constraint on the choice of your fixing, I'd suggest the pincher trio:


I think you boiled down main theme of the cube really well with "Grave and Tempo" and made me realize I actually don't have a clue how I'd distill my own cube in the same way. I'm jealous!
 
T

Turillazzo

Ok, time for answers:

@Grillo: many thanks ^^ I guess tutors are cool, but do you think Lim-Dul's Vault should come in Psychatog's place? Take into account that I value card simplicity too...but it's not impossible to have other TOL tutors, such as Mystical. Which do you think are feasible? I would ban Enlightened personally, as it really helps too much if you're trying to get an Enduring Renewal/Cathodion/Goblin Bombardment engine going. [edit: Vault lets you pay as much life as you want and that's actually a pretty good plus in this env, probably giving it a spin; but sell me on it more, if you can!]

@Ond: I agree about the fixing, I've been going up and down with it but it's hard to find a perfect spot to be in. The idea behind the pains was that they enabled you to get lower on life if you wished, while filter-lands were intended to help you with CC and CCC cards, that are intendedly more prevalent than usual. You're convincing me that it's not enough, anyway, so I think I could probably change it to just full shocks, double full fetches, and 2 Mana Confluences. Is that sound? (I will need to cut something or to get it to full 270 for that, but no problem really)

@Rasmus: Glad to see you spot the Ruinator/CoCo engine :D no budget costraints anyway, I'm proxying about half of this stuff, and sometimes it's a problem for instant comprehension but it isn't with the lands, since they come in cycles and are easier to grasp. Cool deck you built, even though you would have had more options by setting the draft to 5 bots/14 cards.

@James: not tested yet, but I hope it's a late-ish pick that gives a sacrifice outlet to decks that need it (and some do need it - look at Grillo's deck) and that maybe can proliferate it. I am scared that it could be too slow, but only time will tell.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Turillazzo said:
@Ond: I agree about the fixing, I've been going up and down with it but it's hard to find a perfect spot to be in. The idea behind the pains was that they enabled you to get lower on life if you wished, while filter-lands were intended to help you with CC and CCC cards, that are intendedly more prevalent than usual. You're convincing me that it's not enough, anyway, so I think I could probably change it to just full shocks, double full fetches, and 2 Mana Confluences. Is that sound? (I will need to cut something or to get it to full 270 for that, but no problem really)
Click to expand...
I think I would add the second shock before the second fetch? Though putting cards in the yard is also important in this cube, so I don't know.

I presume you want to add the painlands for fateful hour and assorted cards like Death's Shadow then? That is actually a cute interaction I missed. Maybe you want to go Shock, Fetch, Pain then?
 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

I think a bleed-manabase with shock fetch pain could do interesting (albeit mostly cute) things together with not only fateful hour (which I think is a decent mechanic at best honestly) but bloodthirst and those kinds of mechanics as well! Maybe a bleed-mana environment would do well with more ways to gain life, as well.
 
T

Turillazzo

@Rasmus: no, it triggers on any kind of damage...but that's an interaction that wholly depends on the opponent and hard to trigger yourself. Now, Fatestitcher could tap your opponent's City of Brass, but I don't think we're going this far. Anyway I agree with you on the fact that fateful hour is not particularly exciting, but cards like Thraben Doomsayer and Gather the Townsfolk are a thing so I figured I could try to make Death's Shadow good; I hope this suffices!

Btw, I guess I'll make some place for the fetch/shock/pain configuration, it seems reasonable :)
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Turillazzo said:
Ok, time for answers:

@Grillo: many thanks ^^ I guess tutors are cool, but do you think Lim-Dul's Vault should come in Psychatog's place? Take into account that I value card simplicity too...but it's not impossible to have other TOL tutors, such as Mystical. Which do you think are feasible? I would ban Enlightened personally, as it really helps too much if you're trying to get an Enduring Renewal/Cathodion/Goblin Bombardment engine going. [edit: Vault lets you pay as much life as you want and that's actually a pretty good plus in this env, probably giving it a spin; but sell me on it more, if you can!]
Click to expand...

Vault is just amazing in these types of formats. The ability to rig the TOL for self-mill triggers results in some of the most exciting plays and decks, while its interaction with the opponents mill or shuffle effects provides some of the most skill challenging plays. Some decks very bad want to combine a key one-of with self-mill, and selection focused cards like vault, vamp. tutor, or dig through time, allow them to execute that game plan. That selection makes entire catagories of combo and control decks possible, and I would absolutely break singleton on it.

The deck I drafted, for instance, really wants a way to quickly find living death, rather than going through the exercise of hoping you don't mill it, or the noxious revial, away with hedron crab triggers.

I have no idea about psychatog, but I would try it. This is a format where it might finally live up to its reputation, and you have the proc. effects to help him get through, as well as shu yun, the silent tempest. That would be another great vault deck btw :)
 
Q

quanta

I highly approve of any cube where I can draft too many colors Aluren decks.

quanta413's draft of 4 color Aluren Innistrad! (it's all about Tempo and Graves) on 06/06/2015 from CubeTutor.com










I left a Geralf's Messenger, a Psychatog, and a Cloudfin Raptor in the sideboard. I feel they are arguably maindeck inclusions depending on how hard you want to push the mana.

I have no idea if the synergy of the deck makes up for the lack of raw power but to note some of the synergies: 11 humans including Champion of the Parish and double Hamlet captain, +1/+1 counter stuff, the infinite life three card combo of Aluren + Soul Warden + Kor Skyfisher, and importantly the trio of collected company and aluren and birthing pod means your mana is a lot better than it looks.

I like how you put in Aven Mimeomancer, Aleisha, and a few other not super obvious cards that play really well with all the +1/+1 counter stuff but without interacting directly with counters.

...I just realized I didn't put in enough Islands for Yasova's ability. Derp.
 
T

Turillazzo

Good one quanta! I actually think you have enough stuff to make Geralf playable!

Btw, you convinced me to increase the cube size to 270 so I can make room for the fixing AND one more card for each guild. Which would be...
UB: Lim-Dul's Vault
UR: Izzet Charm (Spellheart Chimera is probably slow and sucky for this place)
WB: either Zealous Persecution which is potentially very powerful, or Orzhov Charm, that lets you bring back some key 1-drops such as Soul Warden and Death's Shaodw
WG: Dromoka's Command, which is incidental enchantment hate, can blow up your own Ordeal in times of need (!) and is just bollocks in that WG deck with double Favored Hoplite and double Prey Upon


Any suggestions for the others? Exhava is tempting, but there aren't many +1+1 creatures in black, and the red ones usually get the counter after you attacked, which makes the haste useless.

Also, it looks like Pod is not so hard to build around, so maybe I'll have to throw away the "squadron" thing for the whole cycle and hope drafts don't become a mess.
 
James Stevenson

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
Speaking of izzet, can you tell us about your choices? I run these:

I adore UR spells-matters decks. In the old days, this was a control archetype, but now I've found that my cube is faster and this isn't coming together any more. Instead, it's become a dankalank tempo archetype with these:

Spellheart chimera does actually pull its weight, though it is on the weak side. But I think this is a really easy kind of theme to support, and it is an interesting deck to draft and play. Whether you want to take it in a control or tempo route is up to you, but I recommend trying it out.
(I do love Izzet Charm, maybe I should run it over Izzet Chronarch. I think what I really need is a custom card that returns an instant or sorcery to hand, but with decent stats.)
 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

Depending on the kind of cube your running UR spells melds really really well with either black delve cards or white token cards making for some pretty varied decks using the same core cards.
 
T

Turillazzo

I understand the fascination with UR spells and I guess I'll probably try to pull the cube in that direction a lil' bit, also because there is no clear theme for that combo, except maybe for the Burning Vengeance + skaabs deck. But it's fine to have more than one theme for a guild (WG has both "humans aggro" and "enduring renewal/aluren stuff) so I'll try. Isn't doubling on Pyromancer a little too much, tough? Looks like a strong one to me :/
I guess I can replace the Reckless Waives with Swiftspears anyway, even though that might reduce the Innistrad-ishness of the environ by a little bit.
 
James Stevenson

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
Yeah, double Pyromancer is very powerful. Double Swiftspear is not really important either. There's probably a way to support this without breaking singleton, but this is where I've come to in trying to make UR good. To be honest I don't play much magic or work on my cube much any more, so I probably won't experiment further.

I miss having a wild, untamed cube with lots of random stuff. Breaking singleton this much does feel a little lame. The format is probably better this way, though - more replay value, lots of archetypes.
 
T

Turillazzo

turillazzo's BWr Suicide draft of Innistrad! (it's all about Tempo and Graves) on 07/06/2015 from CubeTutor.com


turillazzo's BWr Suicide draft of Innistrad! (it's all about Tempo and Graves) on 07/06/2015 from CubeTutor.com



Ok, so I just tried to make this deck come together. I think it works nicely, with a bunch of token-makers, the Feeder+Crawler full package, and a lot of way to kill yourself for a lethal Death's Shadow+Fling or a Doomsayer swing (Hex Parasite being the most notable one, since you can just activate it and lose 2 life at will).


On another note, Kirblinx drafted quite a scary deck...

Bant Enduring Aluren from CubeTutor.com


Bant Enduring Aluren from CubeTutor.com



plenty of ways to find your stuff faster, and just a lot of stuff to find, since you have many ways to approach a combo kill. The fact that it's splashing for a 4th color is a drag, though.


(btw no idea how to show decks here)
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Turillazzo said:
(btw no idea how to show decks here)
Click to expand...

Try editing your own post, deleting all of the markup that has the decklists, then re-exporting those decklists from CubeTutor, and pasting them back in? Make sure that when you paste into your browser, there's no formatting - either paste in Notepad first, as an intermediate step, or select "Paste and Match Style" when you right-click the textbox as you're pasting.
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Turillazzo said:
On another note, Kirblinx drafted quite a scary deck...

Bant Enduring Aluren from CubeTutor.com









plenty of ways to find your stuff faster, and just a lot of stuff to find, since you have many ways to approach a combo kill. The fact that it's splashing for a 4th color is a drag, though.

(btw no idea how to show decks here)
Click to expand...

I like to draft cubes before I comment, gives me something to say. Your cube is pretty sweet.

I think I got the enduring ideal 4th pick and went into it. Saw the aluren in pack 2 and thought why not? Then ended up with the pile you see there.
I probably didn't need to splash the black, the deck would have functioned alright, but how can you not want to go infinite? Plus Aluren helps colour-fix? Amirite?

I am also trying to edit the quote to show the deck, but am having some problems. Weird.
EDIT: Oh, hey look, it worked. There seems to be nothing different from what I quoted of yours and what I copied from the notepad cubetutor spat out. Just keep on fiddlin' until what you want to happen happens.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top