Everything in UG interacts with Brainstorm!
Card/Deck Ug... What should I do with my Blue-Green section?
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
Everything in UG interacts with Brainstorm!
(Sorry it took me so long to post a decklist, I usually just post from my iPad and drafting on my iPad is annoying.)
Here is a sample UG deck from my cube. The focus is on slapping down sticky, hard-to-stop threats and keeping them safe while you ramp into something obscene. The fetches, Harrow, and the Sylvan Safekeeper help feed Titania if you want to go wide, while the first two bolster a Lotus Cobra strategy and the latter provides some extra security at a cost. Being able to crack fetches on your opponent's turn to feed Counterspells with the Cobra is no joke, either! It can be quite a nasty surprise for someone expecting them to be strictly ramp to be used on your own turn.
I also enjoy turning UG into Planeswalker control, and have fond memories of buffing a ton of Eldrazi spawn off an Awakening Zone with Garruk Wildspeaker's ultimate to dump them into an Altar of Dementia for the win. Good times.
(Sorry it took me so long to post a decklist, I usually just post from my iPad and drafting on my iPad is annoying.)
Here is a sample UG deck from my cube. The focus is on slapping down sticky, hard-to-stop threats and keeping them safe while you ramp into something obscene. The fetches, Harrow, and the Sylvan Safekeeper help feed Titania if you want to go wide, while the first two bolster a Lotus Cobra strategy and the latter provides some extra security at a cost. Being able to crack fetches on your opponent's turn to feed Counterspells with the Cobra is no joke, either! It can be quite a nasty surprise for someone expecting them to be strictly ramp to be used on your own turn.
I also enjoy turning UG into Planeswalker control, and have fond memories of buffing a ton of Eldrazi spawn off an Awakening Zone with Garruk Wildspeaker's ultimate to dump them into an Altar of Dementia for the win. Good times.
This looks pretty cool. I think I see the idea here.
Thanks CML, that's a card I like a lot, but probably never actually played in my life. Time to cube it!
i don't have a good deck list that doesn't include custom cards but i love a good old ug value/ramp list with like dorks, counterspells, man'o'wars, primal command, cryptic command, acidic slime, and a couple of other fatties.
if you want to see the most broken versino in action, go back and watch some older mtgo cube vids with LSV playing, he used to force it like every draft and 3-0 because it was fucked up
as a side note: i love decks like bant flash/blink, bug reanimator, bug control, rug tempo
if you want to see the most broken versino in action, go back and watch some older mtgo cube vids with LSV playing, he used to force it like every draft and 3-0 because it was fucked up
as a side note: i love decks like bant flash/blink, bug reanimator, bug control, rug tempo
I'll be honest: I don't see the appeal to Coiling Oracle. It's a super conditional Explore that takes up a multicolour slot for a 1/1 body. Are there really enough blink decks wanting that effect? At least Explore lets you draw a card and then play any land in your hand - all without revealing a thing. If you really want to flicker something for value, I can't imagine ever wanting Coiling Oracle over Sea Gate Oracle; it doesn't maybe-ramp, but it walls better, and by the time you can flicker something for value, you probably don't need the land-playing effect (and Sea Gate can filter out lands when you don't want them, too). I can't imagine ever picking Oracle unless it was the last card that could fit in my deck in a pack. Why not just run 2 Explores? Goes in way more decks, at the very least.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I love Coiling Oracle, but as a multicolor card it's pretty suspect I think unless you run a very large section like in my cube. If I know I'm it will make my deck most of the time, because it's such good value, but it's not nearly powerful enough to draw me into the color combination, and that's what you want your multicolor cards to do, isn't it?
it will make my deck most of the time, because it's such good value, but it's not nearly powerful enough to draw me into the color combination, and that's what you want your multicolor cards to do, isn't it?The problem with comparing Coiling Oracle to Explore is the fact that it disregards the value of the attached body. Oracle it not really a blink target, it's more a speed bump in slower decks (like Sakura-Tribe - get a card and chump something... maybe even take an X/1 with you) or in faster decks it's a sword bearer (well, bonesplitter or whatever equips you are running I guess). Oracle is also a great Natural Order sac target for those running that card. Explore doesn't do any of that.
It's similar I think to the Eternal Witness vs Regrowth comparison. Everyone runs the witness (I think). But regrowth? I cut that. It's OK, but I don't want to waste a card on it generally (especially true now without a lot of the bomb cards in my list).
As far as guild cards pulling guys into the color... I'm less focused on that. Some cards do that (Falkenrath Aristocrat), others are just role-players that add tons of value to decks that can cast them (charms, etc.). I think I'm cool with guys finding cards in mono colors that they want to build around and then just grabbing guild cards that support the deck. It's great if a guild card does that too, but I'm OK if it doesn't as long as the guild card is something that the color combination will typically play. Oracle fits that bill. If I am in Simic, I will almost always run that card. It's good in everything.
It's similar I think to the Eternal Witness vs Regrowth comparison. Everyone runs the witness (I think). But regrowth? I cut that. It's OK, but I don't want to waste a card on it generally (especially true now without a lot of the bomb cards in my list).
As far as guild cards pulling guys into the color... I'm less focused on that. Some cards do that (Falkenrath Aristocrat), others are just role-players that add tons of value to decks that can cast them (charms, etc.). I think I'm cool with guys finding cards in mono colors that they want to build around and then just grabbing guild cards that support the deck. It's great if a guild card does that too, but I'm OK if it doesn't as long as the guild card is something that the color combination will typically play. Oracle fits that bill. If I am in Simic, I will almost always run that card. It's good in everything.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Stuff I like to do with UG:
-- Aggro
It's worth distinguishing between aggro (base-green for undercosted beaters, with blue offering interaction that green doesn't have access to) and tempo (base-blue for cheap evasive creatures, with green for pump and good rates on gold cards). Edric is great in tempo but average in aggro; one reason I like tripling up on Noble Hierarchs over stuff like Elvish Mystic is that it's good in both of these decks (as well as everything else). Green also has lots of flash creatures that fit well with blue's instants.
If you really want to push the flash angle, consider: Wolfir Avenger; Yeva, Nature's Herald; Prophet of Kruphix; Briarhorn; Rewind; Plaxmanta; Shambleshark; Caller of the Claw; Silumgar Sorcerer; Horizon Chimera
-- +1/+1 Counters
You have the cheap evolve guys, ways to grant(/graft) counters, and cute synergies with persist and the like. Fun cards here include Mirrorweave, which is Plague Wind if used on a graft creature and solid Wrath protection with persist/undying/Chasm Skulker; and Rapid Hybridization, an unusually solid trick in blue and a 1-mana 3/3 with upside on a leftover body.
-- Ramp
I've seen a few types of ramp deck:
- Generic ramp: usual ramp effects into planeswalkers, large creatures, and spells like Primal Command. The de facto best deck in the MTGO Cube(s) for a long time
- Turboland: focuses on Explore effects, Courser/Oracle of Mul Daya with library manipulation, and the like to accrue a lot of mana without dipping low on raw card count. I like this one because the cards moving back and forth between zones tickles me for some reason
- Primeval Titan: often a subset of Turboland and works best with the ULD, the idea is to use Titan and other cards to get maximum value from specific lands rather than just amassing a lot of them. Shelldock Isle is excellent here
- hyper-ramp: most ramp decks want to go 2-4-6 (like the old Wolf Run Ramp decks in Standard) or just play a 5-drop a turn early or something. With hyper ramp you use cards like Prime Time or Gilded Lotus (or Thran Dynamo in power-max Cubes but I try to steer clear of that) as your payoff cards to move up another tier: X-spells, Eldrazi, Ugin, whatever
- creature ramp: uses mana creatures to ramp into something that relies on having lots of creatures e.g. in BG you can ramp into a massive Mycoloth or Tar Fiend. Chord of Calling fits into this category, not sure what else does.
- combo ramp: here you're just trying to build up and stay alive until you can cast something that wins the game by itself. Scapeshift is the obvious example in Constructed but it's hard to make it work in Cube; something like Ugin qualifies, as does Upheaval, Avenger of Zendikar, Time Spiral. This deck wants cards like Moment's Peace, Cryptic Command, or Cyclonic Rift a lot more. A subset of this is the 'Heartbeat deck': anything that untaps lands (mainly the Urza's block free cards) with Heartbeat of Spring, Karoos, etc.
-- Creature Shenanigans
This covers all the Green Sun's Zenith/Birthing Pod/Chord of Calling/Survival of the Fittest/whatever decks. Green has the cards that find creatures, blue has some of the better ones to find (since Counterspell/Boomerang and the like are all stapled to creatures nowadays) as well as Brainstorm/Ponder/Tracker's Instincts and ways to loop creatures with Crystal Shard alongside Erratic Portal/Temur Sabertooth.
also:
- Protect the Queen: UG has lots of ways to protect a creature (Sylvan Safekeeper, Spellskite, GEArchmage, Vendilion Clique, countermagic) and good creatures to protect (Master of the Wild Hunt, Consecrated Sphinx, Polukranos, Master of Waves, Primeval Titan, Oracle of Mul Daya, Wolfir Silverheart, Whisperwood Elemental, Meloku)
- Tokens: Green isn't one of the main token colours, and blue certainly isn't, but that's changed recently between Chasm Skulker, Master of Waves, and Reef Worm. Green gives anthems/Overruns and you have Blasting Station/Eldrazi Monument as colourless incentives.
- Morphs: Probably only suitable if you dial down the power, but the morph enablers and most of the good morphs are in UG: Aphetto Alchemist, Broodhatch Nantuko, Den Protector, Icefeather Aven, Rattleclaw Mystic, Stratus Dancer, Temur Charger, Tribal Forcemage, Voidmage Prodigy, Deathmist Raptor, Ainok Survivalist, Shaper Parasite, Shorecrasher Elemental, Thelonite Hermit, Vesuvan Shapeshifter, Brine Elemental, Sagu Mauler, Quicksilver Dragon, Thousand Winds, Chromeshell Crab
- Tap/Untap: With Pestermite/Exarch, Quirion/Scryb Ranger, and Kiora's Follower, there are lots of ways to get multiple activations of a looter/Waterfront Bouncer/Fauna Shaman/Imperious Perfect/Ulvenwald Tracker/Master of the Wild Hunt/Dreamscape Artist/Stampede Driver
-- Aggro
It's worth distinguishing between aggro (base-green for undercosted beaters, with blue offering interaction that green doesn't have access to) and tempo (base-blue for cheap evasive creatures, with green for pump and good rates on gold cards). Edric is great in tempo but average in aggro; one reason I like tripling up on Noble Hierarchs over stuff like Elvish Mystic is that it's good in both of these decks (as well as everything else). Green also has lots of flash creatures that fit well with blue's instants.
If you really want to push the flash angle, consider: Wolfir Avenger; Yeva, Nature's Herald; Prophet of Kruphix; Briarhorn; Rewind; Plaxmanta; Shambleshark; Caller of the Claw; Silumgar Sorcerer; Horizon Chimera
-- +1/+1 Counters
You have the cheap evolve guys, ways to grant(/graft) counters, and cute synergies with persist and the like. Fun cards here include Mirrorweave, which is Plague Wind if used on a graft creature and solid Wrath protection with persist/undying/Chasm Skulker; and Rapid Hybridization, an unusually solid trick in blue and a 1-mana 3/3 with upside on a leftover body.
-- Ramp
I've seen a few types of ramp deck:
- Generic ramp: usual ramp effects into planeswalkers, large creatures, and spells like Primal Command. The de facto best deck in the MTGO Cube(s) for a long time
- Turboland: focuses on Explore effects, Courser/Oracle of Mul Daya with library manipulation, and the like to accrue a lot of mana without dipping low on raw card count. I like this one because the cards moving back and forth between zones tickles me for some reason
- Primeval Titan: often a subset of Turboland and works best with the ULD, the idea is to use Titan and other cards to get maximum value from specific lands rather than just amassing a lot of them. Shelldock Isle is excellent here
- hyper-ramp: most ramp decks want to go 2-4-6 (like the old Wolf Run Ramp decks in Standard) or just play a 5-drop a turn early or something. With hyper ramp you use cards like Prime Time or Gilded Lotus (or Thran Dynamo in power-max Cubes but I try to steer clear of that) as your payoff cards to move up another tier: X-spells, Eldrazi, Ugin, whatever
- creature ramp: uses mana creatures to ramp into something that relies on having lots of creatures e.g. in BG you can ramp into a massive Mycoloth or Tar Fiend. Chord of Calling fits into this category, not sure what else does.
- combo ramp: here you're just trying to build up and stay alive until you can cast something that wins the game by itself. Scapeshift is the obvious example in Constructed but it's hard to make it work in Cube; something like Ugin qualifies, as does Upheaval, Avenger of Zendikar, Time Spiral. This deck wants cards like Moment's Peace, Cryptic Command, or Cyclonic Rift a lot more. A subset of this is the 'Heartbeat deck': anything that untaps lands (mainly the Urza's block free cards) with Heartbeat of Spring, Karoos, etc.
-- Creature Shenanigans
This covers all the Green Sun's Zenith/Birthing Pod/Chord of Calling/Survival of the Fittest/whatever decks. Green has the cards that find creatures, blue has some of the better ones to find (since Counterspell/Boomerang and the like are all stapled to creatures nowadays) as well as Brainstorm/Ponder/Tracker's Instincts and ways to loop creatures with Crystal Shard alongside Erratic Portal/Temur Sabertooth.
also:
- Protect the Queen: UG has lots of ways to protect a creature (Sylvan Safekeeper, Spellskite, GEArchmage, Vendilion Clique, countermagic) and good creatures to protect (Master of the Wild Hunt, Consecrated Sphinx, Polukranos, Master of Waves, Primeval Titan, Oracle of Mul Daya, Wolfir Silverheart, Whisperwood Elemental, Meloku)
- Tokens: Green isn't one of the main token colours, and blue certainly isn't, but that's changed recently between Chasm Skulker, Master of Waves, and Reef Worm. Green gives anthems/Overruns and you have Blasting Station/Eldrazi Monument as colourless incentives.
- Morphs: Probably only suitable if you dial down the power, but the morph enablers and most of the good morphs are in UG: Aphetto Alchemist, Broodhatch Nantuko, Den Protector, Icefeather Aven, Rattleclaw Mystic, Stratus Dancer, Temur Charger, Tribal Forcemage, Voidmage Prodigy, Deathmist Raptor, Ainok Survivalist, Shaper Parasite, Shorecrasher Elemental, Thelonite Hermit, Vesuvan Shapeshifter, Brine Elemental, Sagu Mauler, Quicksilver Dragon, Thousand Winds, Chromeshell Crab
- Tap/Untap: With Pestermite/Exarch, Quirion/Scryb Ranger, and Kiora's Follower, there are lots of ways to get multiple activations of a looter/Waterfront Bouncer/Fauna Shaman/Imperious Perfect/Ulvenwald Tracker/Master of the Wild Hunt/Dreamscape Artist/Stampede Driver
Aoret
Developer
/thread
This isn't a strictly UG deck, but I find that the blink archetype works best in Bant: green has a ton of solid bodies with spells stapled on them, while blue has lots of cheap value guys, all of whom are great candidates to flicker. This overlaps with the "Creatures" archetype that Dom describes, as it's a midrange deck that wants to play lots of animals.
Are there any worthwhile UG split cards?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
You mean other than
Though Fable is only good if you run a large Simic section, so you can trigger both abilities off multiple cards. Snakeform is just a versatile card though, the cantrip really helps.
Though Fable is only good if you run a large Simic section, so you can trigger both abilities off multiple cards. Snakeform is just a versatile card though, the cantrip really helps.
I always thought this was really annoying so someone probably loves it:
Laz
Developer
Doesn't Cackling Counterpart just offer so much more? Especially in UG, where you normally want to copy your own huge creatures. I guess 4GG is a little easier?
Instant and initially cheaper, while more strict requirements and far less inevitable. I could never get my players to take counterpart because half the strength of clone is being your opponents' best creatures, which I hate.
I actually dislike the card because it has mirror entity syndrome where you typically stop doing anything else and the game becomes super boring.
Other UG cards that I enjoy that haven't been mentioned in detail:
Nothing fancy, just a harder to cast mana dork that can enable some other interations, like giving vigilance or icy manipulator twice or something... I just like my bears.
I play it alongside my Horizon Chimera in my peasant cube. It is a removal spell or a instant speed threat that can get out of hand quickly. Have never been disappointed when I have cast this guy. Probably not good enough for higher power lists but decent at penny pincher level I would think.
This guy has always been a pet card of mine in casual play. He offers some build-around potential and is a decently powerful card. Played him in some tribal cube that someone had built and was a complete and utter bomb (and was even an elf!). Could be cool in a cube with +1/+1 counter support (like the deck in Dom's post above) or just a medium powered cube as a fun build-around.
Edit:
Did someone mention mirror entity syndrome?
Nothing fancy, just a harder to cast mana dork that can enable some other interations, like giving vigilance or icy manipulator twice or something... I just like my bears.
I play it alongside my Horizon Chimera in my peasant cube. It is a removal spell or a instant speed threat that can get out of hand quickly. Have never been disappointed when I have cast this guy. Probably not good enough for higher power lists but decent at penny pincher level I would think.
This guy has always been a pet card of mine in casual play. He offers some build-around potential and is a decently powerful card. Played him in some tribal cube that someone had built and was a complete and utter bomb (and was even an elf!). Could be cool in a cube with +1/+1 counter support (like the deck in Dom's post above) or just a medium powered cube as a fun build-around.
Edit:
Did someone mention mirror entity syndrome?
An old classic UG deck from core set's I've always enjoyed is taking a fatty and giving them wings. (Blue-Green Bull?)
This seems like the only application of those cards. Maybe these are good UED choices?An old classic UG deck from core set's I've always enjoyed is taking a fatty and giving them wings. (Blue-Green Bull?)
I think it might be tricky to translate into regular cubes. What blue ways to give evasion do we run at riptide level cubes?
Dom Harvey
Contributor
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I tried toying with Shimmering Wings, but its no Flickering Ward. I tried Nimbus Naiad and it is as low powered as it looks. You can Rogue's Passage in the ULD if you want, but that's not limited to blue.
Nimbus Naiad looks really good (and possibly too good) as I have it, 1 to cast and 3 to bestow. I keep expecting it to be too good, but it hasn't overperformed yet in my list.
to cast and 3 to bestow. I keep expecting it to be too good, but it hasn't overperformed yet in my list.