They go into just as many wedges as a 3-colored cards would and they will probably see 90% of their play in their wedges. They just give the drafters a little more options by being easier to splash for and indicating little sub themes. Also, you can create cards for the wedges, that would make sense in neither monocolored or 3-colored, or at least not as much. I just don't see what we would lose compared to a lot of gain imho
General Vakeztan - A Riptide Lap-Set
- Thread starter ravnic
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
They're a confusing signal to drafters. They go into only one faction, so they are less flexible than enemy color cards in this particular set. They are much worse than actual three color cards at signaling the fact that this set is about three color factions. They eat up card slots that we then can't use for either the more flexible enemy color cards, or the more identity-shaping three color cards. Allied color cards in this set would bother me a great deal aesthetically. It's not that we can't do allied color cards, it's that I don't see why we need them. I do see actual downsides to adding them to our set, however. If we don't need allied color cards to get across our theme of wedge factions, why do so?
And then there's the fact that in your pitch for this set, you literally said: "Game play wise, I'm imagining a wedge set, where every one of the 5 factions actually is focused on the enemy color, so unlinke Khans did it." How is adding allied color cards focusing on the enemy color? Even in Khans, where it would thematically have made sense for, say, the Abzan faction to have a
uncommon and a one because Abzan was "centered" in white, Wizards declined to do that and instead used two enemy color cards per faction because that makes for a more flexible draft environment.
And then there's the fact that in your pitch for this set, you literally said: "Game play wise, I'm imagining a wedge set, where every one of the 5 factions actually is focused on the enemy color, so unlinke Khans did it." How is adding allied color cards focusing on the enemy color? Even in Khans, where it would thematically have made sense for, say, the Abzan faction to have a
uncommon and a one because Abzan was "centered" in white, Wizards declined to do that and instead used two enemy color cards per faction because that makes for a more flexible draft environment.We will have approximatly:
5 wedge gold commons
5 wedge hybrid activation commons
5 wedge tribrid commons
10 wedge gold uncommons
10 enemy guild gold uncommons
10 wedge gold rares
10 enemy guild gold rares
I think having 5 allied gold cards will not confuse anyone or make the factions identity less clear.
But yeah, we definitely need another opinion on this.
On an unrelated note: Do you think a gold set can even offer as much flexibility as for example Innistrad did? I don't wanna make all this effort to create a format, that's quickly solved. And sets with super heavy focus on (gold) factions always seen to have the danger to be on rails I fear.
5 wedge gold commons
5 wedge hybrid activation commons
5 wedge tribrid commons
10 wedge gold uncommons
10 enemy guild gold uncommons
10 wedge gold rares
10 enemy guild gold rares
I think having 5 allied gold cards will not confuse anyone or make the factions identity less clear.
But yeah, we definitely need another opinion on this.
On an unrelated note: Do you think a gold set can even offer as much flexibility as for example Innistrad did? I don't wanna make all this effort to create a format, that's quickly solved. And sets with super heavy focus on (gold) factions always seen to have the danger to be on rails I fear.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Well, was Khans of Alara quickly solved? It's probably really hard to replicate Innistrad levels of deep, WotC can't even do it, and they're paid to do it.
I don't know about these. But Ravnica usually has an offbeat deck (enchantments, defenders) and some 3+ color madness, but most of the decks are just versions of guild XY and you know at some point in the draft what to look for. I know that Innistrad is hard to reach, but that doesn't mean we can't aim for it.
I like our groups and mechanics, but maybe we should put their 3-colored nature a little more brhind and focus more on the rough and wild world of Vakeztan? Instead of making Khans 2.0. we could aim for a more open ended draft format. Still have some gold cards, but maybe only 10 wedge gold rares and 5 uncommons, and 5 tribrid (activations) at common? And then only enemy guild cards, but also only one cycle at each rarity?
I'm just brainstorming a bit since we're still early on. You know, I don't wanna make just another set, but something really special, that'll be worth all the effort
I like our groups and mechanics, but maybe we should put their 3-colored nature a little more brhind and focus more on the rough and wild world of Vakeztan? Instead of making Khans 2.0. we could aim for a more open ended draft format. Still have some gold cards, but maybe only 10 wedge gold rares and 5 uncommons, and 5 tribrid (activations) at common? And then only enemy guild cards, but also only one cycle at each rarity?
I'm just brainstorming a bit since we're still early on. You know, I don't wanna make just another set, but something really special, that'll be worth all the effort
I"m just putting out a few numbers for the core of a design skeleton. This here would still have our groups, but leaves more space to show that there is stuff beyond these going on in Vakeztan and it's format is not just "pick a faction and draft accordingly". The factions can also be hold together more through mechanical identities then through colors, which would be less limiting
101 commons
15 each color
5 Tribrid
10 fixing
11 colorless
80 uncommons
11 each color
10 guild gold cards (enemy/allied)?
5 wedge gold cards
10 colorless/fixing
50 rares
7 each color
5 enemy guild gold cards
5 wedge gold cards
5 colorless
10 mythics(?)
1 each color
5 wedge gold cards
101 commons
15 each color
5 Tribrid
10 fixing
11 colorless
80 uncommons
11 each color
10 guild gold cards (enemy/allied)?
5 wedge gold cards
10 colorless/fixing
50 rares
7 each color
5 enemy guild gold cards
5 wedge gold cards
5 colorless
10 mythics(?)
1 each color
5 wedge gold cards