General Vakeztan - A Riptide Lap-Set

[Onderzeeboot]

Ghumata Loamstalker
Creature - Elf Scout (U)
~ can't be blocked.
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, return up to one target land from your graveyard to your hand.
2/2

Reprint: Savage Conception

Vilefern Toxin
Sorcery (C)
Retrace
Target creature gets +2/+0 and gains deathtouch until end of turn.

Hallucinatory Powder
Sorcery (U)
Retrace
Draw a card. Each opponent discards a card.

Ironwing Tincture
Instant (C)
Target creature gains flying and hexproof until end of turn.

Viva la Valuetrain
Sorcery (C)
Cycling
Return up to one target instant card, up to one target creature card, and up to one target land card from your graveyard to your hand. Exile ~.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I want discard matters cards like in Amonkhet with both retrace and cycling in the set.

Brood of the Ghumata
Enchantment (U)
Whenever you cycle or discard a card, create a green 1/1 Insect creature token.

Trespasser's Punishment
Enchantment (U)
Whenever you cycle or discard a card, target player puts the top two cards of their library into their graveyard.

Reprint: Faith of the Devoted

 

[ravnic]

Nice. I like the idea of alchemy-flavored spells with retrace, feels like mixing the potion (or poison) again by using the natural ingredients.

An attempt for the last one:

The Sun Cult of Omayisk /

The Omayisk people adapted to life in the desert area of Vakeztan, where they evolved a cultist relegion over the last centuries. They offer sacrifices to the Sun God, whose heat can burn away your skin - or revive your dying and dead with life energy. Their priest fulfil rituals of life and death and are feared for their magical might in all of Akeztan. The Khunda Tribes and the people of Nipur trade with them, but no one likes having them around for long. In the eyes of the Omayisk cultist, people who don't praise the sun god are not more than lifestock, who can be sacrificed if the heat requires to be calmed.

While writing this, my autocorrect turned heat into beat all the time, which was pretty funny. The god of the Beat!

Any ideas on how to capture those cultist sacrifices into a mechanic? Maybe something that makes spells more powerful/costing less if you sacrifice(d) a creature (this turn)?

 

[ravnic]

I want discard matters cards like in Amonkhet with both retrace and cycling in the set.

Brood of the Ghumata
Enchantment (U)
Whenever you cycle or discard a card, create a green 1/1 Insect creature token.

Trespasser's Punishment
Enchantment (U)
Whenever you cycle or discard a card, target player puts the top two cards of their library into their graveyard.

Reprint: Faith of the Devoted

Cool idea. Only but: let's not write that "cycle or" part, it might confuse alongside retrace and it was already stupid imo in amonkhet.

 

[ravnic]

Oh, I think I have a good one. It only works on spells but requires (sacrificing of) creatures to work.


Blessing of Shadows
Instant (c)
Oblation (As you cast this spell, you may sacrifice a creature. If you do, copy this spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.)
Draw two cards and lose 2 life.

Reviving Light
Instant (c)
Oblation (As you cast this spell, you may sacrifice a creature. If you do, copy this spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.)
Untap target creature. It gets +2/+2 until end of turn.

Sandstorm Blessing
Sorcery (u)
Oblation (As you cast this spell, you may sacrifice a creature. If you do, copy this spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.)
Sandstorm Blessing deals 2 damage to each creature.

Vindicating Ritual
Sorcerys (r)
Oblation (As you cast this spell, you may sacrifice a creature. If you do, copy this spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.)
Destroy target permanent.

 

[ravnic]

Another idea, this one goes on both, creatures and spells and feels a little more white but also a little less exiting.


Reviving the Souls
Sorcery (r)
Oblation (This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died under your control this turn).
Create a 1/1 white spirit creature token with flying for each creature card in your graveyard.


Kuzolek, Demon of Eclipse
Legendary Creature - Demon (r)
Oblation (This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died under your control this turn).
Flying, Trample
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
6/6

Itnask, High Priest of Eternity
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric (m)
Oblation (This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died under your control this turn).
Lifelink
Pay 3 life, Sacrifice a creature: Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
3/4

Vindicating Ritual
Instant (r)
Oblation (This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died under your control this turn).
Destroy target permanent.

Dissolving Beam
Instant (c)
Oblation (This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died under your control this turn).
~ deals 3 damage to any target.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Oh, I think I have a good one. It only works on spells but requires (sacrificing of) creatures to work.

Cool! I was playing around with the same theme in my head yesterday, thinking the sacrifice would be a stretch in white, but flavorful for a certain type of religious society. The white cards will be the ones with ceremonial sacrifices, red is just the everyday practice of sacrifice as it seeps into society because of the central role it plays in the religion, and black represents what happens when you subvert the ideals of the religion and use the sacrifice for personal power.

The only change I would make is to allow sacrifice of either an artifact or a creature, so that it overlaps mechanically with the equipment matters tribe.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

As for the individual cards, I have some suggestions for changes.

Blessing of Shadows should use the new template ("~ deals 2 damage to you" instead of "you lose 2 life).
Reviving Light is a silly name for a card that doesn't revive and actually gets stronger when you sacrifice a creature.
Sandstorm Blessing deals way too much damage in kicked mode for an uncommon at that mana cost. Could use a casting cost at the very least, and then it's still effectively a wrath effect at uncommon.
Vindicating Ritual is gaaaaaaaaas.

Itnask, High Priest of Eternity
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric (R/M)
Lifelink
Sacrifice a creature, pay 3 life: Exile target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard. Until end of turn you may cast that card. If that card would be put into a graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
3/4

Missionary of <placeholder for their deity>
Creature - Human Cleric (U)
Whenever a nontoken creature you control dies, create two 1/1 white Human creature tokens.
2/2

 

[Chris Taylor]

Vindication ritual is sure to cause some salt

Also, is this a riptide lap set?

 

[ravnic]

Yeah, the revolutionary idea is, that you can play this set with out a table just on your legs!

 

[ravnic]

On a serious note: Don't you like my second version of Oblation? It reads a little less flashy but it would fit a white-based wedge so much better (Unruly Mob, Field of Souls). The biggest upside however is imo, that it works as a really nice link between the go wide nature of and the sacrificing theme that is naturlly in (and sometimes , rarely in ).

Oblation (This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died under your control this turn).

With limited (and 2-colored decks) in mind, I think that this is a better fit actually. When you combine this wedge with the Guards of Nipur, you'll probably get a pretty low to the ground aggressive deck. Having a token subtheme to ensure you always have enough targets for your equipments sounds like a pretty nice synergistic way of bringing these wedge together.

Aggro limited dude
Creature - Dude (c)
Oblation (This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died under your control this turn).
This dude can't block.
3/2

Aggro Vulture
Creature - bird (c)
Oblation (This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died under your control this turn).
Flying
3/1

If the creatures tend to be more aggressive with higher power than toughness and can get on the board cheaper, it also makes taming beasts easier for the -deck. And it works with the flavor, that the God of the Sun/Heat is brutal and sometimes people just die to it's hunger. See the vultures. Fits the thinking of the Omayisk' religious thinking too where the death is a holy thing that satisfies the Sun God.

BUT the first version could still be used on a few cards without a keywod (I think it is narrower due to being riskier too, see sandstorm blessing). I could see there be a 3-5 cards in having that ability, maybe mostly uncommons and rares. We could even go a little further on higehr rarities and print 2 or 3 cards with this ability

Staggering Strike
Sorcery
As you cast this spell, you may sacrifice any number of creatures. Copy it for each creature sacrificed that way. You may choose new targets for the copies.
~ deals 2 damage to any target.

Demon Summoning
Sorcery
As you cast this spell, you may sacrifice any number of creatures. Copy it for each creature sacrificed that way.
Create a 5/5 black demon creature token with flying.


That way, we could still make some flashy rares/uncommons/mythics, but have a more wildly useful ability keyword for the base of that wedge.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

No, I don't like it that much, mainly because it's hard to trigger and/or control when you get the discount, also because it's a cost reduction mechanic, which is always hard to balance, and also also because it's a mechanic that discourages people from blocking in limited, and thus encourages them to not play the game as intended. I think your first mechanic is a great deal better, even if it's more out of color pie for white, and I'm pretty sure it plays much better than your second iteration of the keyword.

 

[ravnic]

I think you see it from the wrong side. A mechanic, that makes blocking a pain is a great fit for an aggressive faction and makes the game more interesting. It is not really different from Bloodrush or basically any combat trick, except that the blowout potential is much lower, which is another upside. Instead of losing your blocker to a trick, you can still trade with or eat an attacker when it is favorable, just considering, that you might give the opponent one more mana.

Second, this wedge is supposed to be the sacrifice cult, so you will have sacrifice outlets at all rarities, making the cost reduction much more controlable than it would be in other decks.

Third, I really like mechanics, that can potentially turn around tides over those which get better when you're winning. This one has the potential, especially on instants, to make for some nice counter plays after an opponent just killed 2 or 3 of your dudes and then you can cast your spell cheaper to maybe crawl back into the game. Again, this ability comes with that Poker mind game thing, in addition to rewarding you for your gowide sacrifice deck.

And since it is only colorless reduction, it should be easier to balance than something like convoke.

 

[Sorrynametaken]

Yes on Retrace and Green graveyard value theme for .

Any ideas on how to capture those cultist sacrifices into a mechanic? Maybe something that makes spells more powerful/costing less if you sacrifice(d) a creature (this turn)?

Morbid and "dies" triggers(on self and "seeing" other things die) alongside some sacrifice effects.

Fervent Dude
Creature - Human Warrior
When ~ dies, if it is your turn, the next spell you cast this turn costs less to cast. Otherwise, ~ does 3 damage to target opponent.
3/1

Devoted Cleric
Creature- Human Cleric
Whenever a creature you control dies, target creature an opponent controls gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
1/3

Untimely Hordemate
Creature- Human
When ~ dies, return target creature card with converted mana cost 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
3/2

 

[ravnic]

Alternatively, for a keyword, how about:

Blessing of the Sun God
Instant (r)
Redemption (You may cast this spell for it's redemption cost if a creature died under your control this turn.)
Creatures you control get +2/+2 and gain lifelink until end of turn.

Demanding Desert Hunter
Creature - Beast (c)
Redemption (You may cast this spell for it's redemption cost if a creature died under your control this turn.)
Sacrifice a creature: ~gains menace until end of turn.
4/4

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think you see it from the wrong side. A mechanic, that makes blocking a pain is a great fit for an aggressive faction and makes the game more interesting. It is not really different from Bloodrush or basically any combat trick, except that the blowout potential is much lower, which is another upside. Instead of losing your blocker to a trick, you can still trade with or eat an attacker when it is favorable, just considering, that you might give the opponent one more mana.

Second, this wedge is supposed to be the sacrifice cult, so you will have sacrifice outlets at all rarities, making the cost reduction much more controlable than it would be in other decks.

Third, I really like mechanics, that can potentially turn around tides over those which get better when you're winning. This one has the potential, especially on instants, to make for some nice counter plays after an opponent just killed 2 or 3 of your dudes and then you can cast your spell cheaper to maybe crawl back into the game. Again, this ability comes with that Poker mind game thing, in addition to rewarding you for your gowide sacrifice deck.

And since it is only colorless reduction, it should be easier to balance than something like convoke.

I don't think it's necessarily the wrong side, more a different side Anyway, having sacrifice outlets in white feels stranger if they're just there, unkeyworded, than it would if it was thematically tied together by a keyword, though you can have some self-sacrificing cards in white. I do agree with your third point, comeback mechanics are often great. We are missing out on interacting with the equipment faction though, which "as you cast this spell, you may sacrifice an artifact or a creature" would have worked out with well. Anyway, copying spells without a mana cost can be problematic as well...

Ok, so say we are going to try out oblation 2.0 (the cost reduction one). Point one, Itnask is insanely overpowered. That's a mana-less Recurring Nightmare on a stick! I do like the rest of the cards, with maybe the exception of Reviving the Souls, which isn't really my cup of tea. Your alternates for the original mechanic (Staggering Strike and Demon Summoning) are insane. Compare Demon Summoning to Hellion Eruption, for example. Not only do you creature far superior creatures, you also create one extra, and you can choose to keep creatures around that are already better. Now, Hellion Eruption isn't the best card around, but it's a serviceable rare against non-Washout decks. Staggering Strike as well can easily deal 10 damage, which is way too much at two mana. Basically, sacrificing any number of creatures to buff a spell for each creatures sacrificed looks to be a problem, which basically means this mechanic scales very badly, which means it might be less balanced than I thought.

Maybe we can do something like Thatcher Revolt that sacs at end of combat instead of at the beginning of the next end step?

 

[ravnic]

Okay, my super quickly designed cards are unbalanced, I accept that. But which keyword are we going for now? Do you like Redemption better than Oblation? Or something completely different?

I feel like my first Iteration with the sac trigger is just a giant design headache

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think I'ld rather try out oblation. Though I do have my reservations, it does seem more interesting, and I think all of your cards with the mechanic are promising and look balanced.

Can we reuse thrulls? They worked well for the "syndicated religion"-theme in Orzhov, and they're well known for their sacrifice shenanigans. I mean, Blood Pet might actually be good with this mechanic! :eek: I love finding reprints like that, where they need to be reevaluated from previous environments.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Sorry, but I had to post this...



Art link Itnask, Apostle of Blood
Art link Blood Pet
Art link Axe Zealot

I love the idea of a bunch of orcs shaping a semblance of a lawful society by following The Doctrine of Blood, having a strong clergy that codified a mishmash of traditional orcish values and human sensibilities into something far more influential and powerful than any of the separate orc tribes used to do. Break the law, and you'll be the next sacrifice at the altar!

 

[ravnic]

I don't feel like we're there yet. I thought a bit about this topic and I think the best version would be again a ability word. I'm usually more of a keyword fan, but I think, that is the best way to capture the flavor of strong magic requiring or getting better with death/sacrifice AND have it have interesting game play AND have it a lot of design potential without causing massive balance headaches.

On first view, it might look like a Morbid ripoff, but I would say it is the better ability from a design point of view. Morbid has the problem that it triggers from you killing your opponent's dudes, making it at least partly a win more (or get more) ability. Why sacrificing your creatures when killing your opponent's works too? It's like what threshold/delirium would be if they'd work with "any graveyard". The cool thing is, because this is harder to trigger, we can make the individual cards more rewarding and interesting!

Scorpion blessing
Instant (c)
Target creature gets deathtouch until end of turn.
Redemption - if a creature died under your control this turn, that creature gains first strike until end of turn.

High-Priest
Creature - Human Cleric (r)
Lifelink
: ~ deals 1 damage to any target.
Redemption -: If a creature died under your control this turn, ~ deals 2 damage to any target.
1/3

Missionaring
Sorcery (c)
Create two 1/1 white human Cleric tokens
Redemption - if a creature died under your control this turn, create four of these tokens instead.

Invoke Sandstorms
Sorcery (u)
~ deals 1 damage to each creature and player.
Redemption - if a creature died under your control this turn, ~ deals 3 damage to each creature and player instead.

Just quick examples. What you guys think?

On an unrelated note, has some one a better name then omayisk for this cult?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I don't feel like we're there yet. I thought a bit about this topic and I think the best version would be again a ability word. I'm usually more of a keyword fan, but I think, that is the best way to capture the flavor of strong magic requiring or getting better with death/sacrifice AND have it have interesting game play AND have it a lot of design potential without causing massive balance headaches.

Just quick examples. What you guys think?

Wait. You finally got me on board with oblation, and now you want me to instead go for a more narrow and swingier morbid? I think the difference between on and off is way too big. I mean, you're right that it feels like it needs to be, but I don't think it creates fun games. "Oh nice, four tokens for four mana. Well, I'll cast my normal spells than that aren't over the top because I blocked your creature then, okay?" On the other hand, going from 2 to 3 tokens feels like a proper morbid payoff, but underwhelming for redemption. I don't think it's an easy job to make these cards to feel both rewarding and properly balanced at the same time. Your original examples for oblation had a more balanced feel to them. I mean, we could rename oblation to redemption and use the same cost reduction mechanic if it's the name you dislike.

Also, no mention of the kick-ass art I found or the flavor blurp at the end? If you like the orc (or mixed orc/goblin/human, if you want some more variety) flavor as well, I think we need a more aggressive sounding name than Omayisk. Something like... Tsurgaal? Or instead of a name something more descriptive like the Blood Fold, the Ardents of Blood, the Red Folk, the Red Souls?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

The only way I see redemption working is if we find a way to keep the spell acceptable when it's turned off and when it's turned on. We need to keep the rewards small but tangible. High-Priest feels reasonably appropriate, the other three feel underwhelming when a creature didn't die, and in the case of Missionaring and especially Invoke Sandstorms overwhelming when turned on. I mean, a 3 damage board wipe for three mana isn't appropriate at uncommon.

Rouse the Souls
Instant (C)
Create two 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying.
Redemption — If a creature died under your control this turn, create three of those tokens instead.

Invoke Sandstorms
Sorcery (U)
~ deals 1 damage to target player and each creature that player controls.
Redemption — If a creature died under your control this turn, ~ deals 2 damage to that player and those creatures instead.

Bone Reading
Sorcery (C)
Draw two cards. ~ deals 2 damage to you.
Redemption — If a creature died under your control this turn, draw two cards and gain 2 life instead.

Bonepicker Bats
Creature - Bat (C)
Flying
Redemption — If a creature died under your control this turn, ~ enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.
2/1

I still like my design of Itnask and reprint of Blood Pet for this mechanic, by the way!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Also, what if we make it a bit broader again, to overlap with the equipment faction?

Offering — If an artifact or creature was put into your graveyard this turn, ~ enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.

 

[Velrun]

Offering is already a keyword.

Just wanted to tell you in case you missed it.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Offering is already a keyword.

Just wanted to tell you in case you missed it.

Yeah, I reckoned it was why ravnic went with oblation. The Kamigawa keyword follows the pattern "<creature type> offering", so the syntax is different, and was used on only five creatures, but we probably still shouldn't reuse the word. I just didn't feel like coming up with something else, and wanted to use something else than oblation to set it apart in the discussion