General Vakeztan - A Riptide Lap-Set

[Onderzeeboot]

Yeah, we can do the "wild" supertype if we find we want to refer to "wild" cards. As in, an enchantment with "wild creatures get +1/+1 and have trample", for example. As worded right now, if we want that effect we need to spell out "creatures with tame (without a tame counter on them) ...", which is slightly to super inelegant, depending on what we want. As this tribe is about the taming of wild creatures though, I think it's far more likely we want a "tamed creatures get +1/+1 and have trample" effect, if we want to play around in that space. So, you're probably right that we don't need the "wild" supertype in that case.

Edit: Also, we can totally do Beast Turtle for that card I designed

Edit 2: oh, we could use the supertype "wild" if we want the reminder text to say "tap any number of non-wild creatures"! That would be reasonably elegant actually.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

The keyword should be Tame X, not Untamed X. Otherwise you can't say "tame only as a sorcery", plus you then get to refer to "taming" on other cards. Other than that I believe you have found the correct reminder text. Can't really think of a way to further improve it at the moment.

Tame X (Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power X or greater: Put a tame counter on this creature. Tame only as a sorcery and if this creature has no tame counter on it.)

Actually, I can think of an improvement!

Tame X (Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power X or greater: Put a tame counter on this creature. Tame only as a sorcery and only if this creature has no tame counter on it.)

That second only should definitely be there.

Taking a page from Obsidian Fireheart, I think we can even completely get away with...

Tame X (Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power X or greater: Put a tame counter on this creature. Tame only as a sorcery and only if this creature is untamed.)

I think that final one should be our reminder text, actually. It doesn't really matter that "untamed" isn't a thing in Magic. It's in the reminder text, you can write anything there, but more importantly, I think it's pretty intuitive. I mean,you're looking at a card that can be tamed, untamed makes perfect sense here... I think.

 

[ravnic]

I prefer the way where we say "Turtle Beast" for example, or just find beast art, that fits the flavor, because a supertype is something that leads to high expectations and such, like a lot of cards with that type and maybe a use over more than one set (I mean, there are technically some wild beasts in every set).

You posted before me like always, this time I agree 100%, that should be our reminder text.


I wanna show you guys something else, I'm not sure if it is actually good. I though about a way how to finally implement the alchemist trope into MtG and found that the green-based sultai faction would be prefect for that. My best solution so far is that: Cards create ingredient-tokens. Ingredients are new card types, that only exist as tokens. There are Alchemists and aligned spells in the set, that let you sac 2 or 3 different ingredients for powerful effects. To make it less combo, I gave all of them a small effect if you sac them alone (as in just eat it).

Stinkbug
Ingredient
, sacrifice this ingredient: You gain 1 life.

Gloom Toad
Ingredient
, sacrifice this ingredient: Scry 1.

Skyleaf
Ingredient
, Sacrifice this ingredient: Target creature gains flying until end of turn.

Bloodberry
Ingredient
, sacrifice this ingredient: Untap target creature.


Something like this, I think 4 would the highest number one set could allow for one mechanic. Obviously, the tokens would come from cards in colors, that allow the effect.

Alchemist's Helper
Creature - Human
When ~ enters the battlefield, create two stinkbug ingredient tokens with ", sacrifice this ingredient: You gain 1 life."

Study the Components
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep create your choice of a Gloom Toad ingredient token with " , sacrifice this ingredient: Scry 1." or a Skyleaf ingredient token with ", Sacrifice this ingredient: Target creature gains flying until end of turn."


Their best use though, would be with other alchemy-related cards.


Grim Poisoner
Creature - Human Alchemist
Sacrifice a Stinkbug and a Bloodberry: Target creature gains deathtouch until end of turn.
2/2

Mindful Mixture
Sorcery
As aditional cost to cast mindful Mixture, sacrifice a Bloodberry and any number of Gloom Toads: Draw a card for each Gloom Toad sacrificed that way.

Mixo, Master Mixer
Legendary Creature - Human Alchemist
Sacrifice a Gloom Toad, a STinkbug, a Bloodberry and a Skyleaf: Draw four cards and gain 4 life.
4/4



What you guys think, potential?

 

[vennythekid]

It sounds like the templating for Tame is close to that of monstrous from Theros. Maybe instead of a tame counter, you could go for a +1/+1 or -1/-1 counter? Could smooth out the clumsiness of the Tame counter. As an added bonus, the cards that care about the counter could apply more broadly to other cards too.

 

[ravnic]

Hmm, I have to say, I like the idea. A -1/-1 counters would capture of domeaticating well and we could create stronger upsides. I like both version, this and the one we settled on before. I'll let the others decide.

Edit: actually, now that I check the cards we created so far as example, the - counter would make it incredibly hard to balance in some cases, I don't know.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think it's easier to balance around the stats not changing. Making your card worse by taming it sounds like an awful play experience, so I wouldn't touch the -1/-1 counter with a 10 foot pole. Making it better could be a suitable reward, but, again, hard to balance. Like, that Fledgling Griffin I posted doesn't make sense with either a -1/-1 or a +1/+1 counter. I think tame counter is the way to go. You make a good point about synergy though, if we go with tame as a mechanic, how are we going to overlap with Mardu and Sultai?

As for the ingredient mechanic, that seems very fiddle and very, very poisonous. Also, if you use weird tokens for that, the scroll and equipment token ideas are probably right out. Swarm is supposed to use tokens as well. I think we have way too many token ideas and should pick one and find some other mechanic for the rest.

 

[ravnic]

Yeah you're right with all that. But to the overlap point, I don't see a problem with that, since 1. tame works with having P>T creatures, with short- and longterm pump, and with tap/untap stuff, pretty easy to overlap with these in some way. And 2. the factions are far more than just their mechanic. For example, we could have a Beast tribal subtheme in Golgari or something.

Okay, anyone who wants to bring up an idea for one of the other 4 wedges, including roughly flavor and a mechanical identity, maybe with some examples for the keyword?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

We've got 3 different token mechanics so far. I think we need to make some choices.

1. Scrolls (instant and sorcery tokens/emblems)
2. Swarm (token copies of creatures)
3. Mobilize (equipment tokens)

NB1: Amonkhet had 26 tokens! We know we can print a set with a lot of different tokens and still make it work.
NB2. Both the scroll and swarm mechanic are going to use up a lot of different tokens. Embalm used 15 tokens in Amonkhet, which means it's unlikely we can support both scrolls and swarm.
NB3. Mobilize uses only one token, so it can coexist with either the scroll or swarm mechanic number-wise.
I designed both scrolls and swarm, so I don't really want to have an opinion here (other than that I like them both, and they both have plenty of design space).

 

[ravnic]

I don't really like mobilize And scrolls feel a little too sweet as well. I do like swarm, but do you have any play experiece with it? Can't it get annoying tobfight against many creatures many times over and over? Also, on an unrelated note, I still like the idea of embalm for the mardu desert folk.

 

[ravnic]

What about giving the / faction an ability word:

Smithing - *static ability given to all equipped creatures you control*

That would be a simple mechanic, to not make the set hyper complex, but still soemthing with a lot of potential. The flavor of blacksmiths giving bonusses to your weapons and armor is on point, and it could lead to very interesting deckbuilding and play patterns.

Abilities that could be granted:

- Versions of +X/+X or basically any kind of stat bonusses

- First strike, double strike, menace, ... (every keyword that could in some way be related to the weapon wielded)

- Simple activatet abilities like ": Tap target creature" or ": 1 damage to any target"

- Combinations of the above

 

[Sorrynametaken]

At least one or two of the factions probably needs to be more straight-forward/aggro, right? The red-centered faction could be that, using tempo plays that push through damage now(combat tricks, burn, bounce/freeze effects).

Here's a mechanic I was toying around with a couple years ago when I was trying to concept "attacking as a team or with a partner." Battalion exists, but maybe this variant has some interesting play to it and is easier to pull off because it only requires two creatures:
Coordinate — Whenever ~ attacks, if exactly one other creature attacks, both creatures [SOMETHING]
If that is too narrow, the formula could be broadened to "Whenever ~ attacks, if exactly one other creature attacks, [SOMETHING GOOD HAPPENS]"
This could be used to represent the faction's superior battlefield tactics/training.

Belligerent Captain
Creature - Human Soldier
Coordinate — Whenever Belligerent Captain attacks, if exactly one other creature attacks, both creatures each get +2/+0 until end of turn.
3/2

 

[dbs]

As an engineer (I'm sure there are many of us here), my word of caution would be:

Try not to do too much design up front because most of it will be wrong. In my experience, it'st most effective to rush to actionable test cases as quickly as possible, and then use that to guide further design.

Concretely my suggestion would be:

1) Choose two color pairs you like (e.g. UW, BR) and build two hypothetical decks in these pairs using themes you want to explore. In building the decks, put in ~50% your custom cards designed to test out the theme. Fill the rest in with simple role-fillers that Wizards has already printed. Don't think too hard about the deck construction. Just try to intuitively and quickly throw a pile together (you'll refine through testing!)
2) Proxy and print the decks
3) Grab a buddy and play 10 games.
4) Then mark down what themes work well and what cards were particularly good or bad. It's important to be willing to aggressively throw out things, sometimes even if you've invested a lot of work into them.
5) Use what you learned to motivate the choice of two new themes in different colors, keeping in mind how they overlap with the themes you've already tested, and keeping in mind how they contrast with themes you've already tested.
6) Continue iteratively

TLDR: Proceed empirically! Doing a lot of design and theory-crafting upfront is almost always wrong.

Of course, I'm not a game designer so I could be totally full of shit.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Use three color decks in this case, I would say

 

[ravnic]

The Guards of Nipur

Nipur is a huge City carved into the Northern Mountains. It is ruled be the Guards of Nipur who control the city and fight for their independency. For generations, they have been excellent weapon- and armorsmith, which is a big part of the reason, their military force is respected in all of Akeztan.

Their mechanic "Smithing" showcases this outstanding talent.

Mechanical identity: aggro/aggressive midrange with evasion/double strike/lifelink etc. + Equipment.

Some examples for potential cards, that showcase what the Guards of Nipur are known for

Bonesplitting Veteran
Creature - Minotaur Soldier (u)
Smithing - Equipped creatures you control get +2/+0
2/3

Whirler Elite
Creature - Viashino Soldier (u)
Double strike
Whenever ~ deals damage to an opponent, you may draw a card
2/2

Nipur Armorsmith
Creature - Human Soldier (c)
Smithing - Equipped creatures you control get +0/+2
2/1

Aerial Guard
Creature - Viashino Soldier (c)
Flying, double strike
1/3

Thunder Axe
Artifact - Equipment (u)
Equipped creature gets +2/+0. Whenever equipped creature attacks, it deals 1 damage to any target.
Equip

Hook Crafter
Creature - Human Soldier (r)
Smithing - Equipped creatures you control have ", : Tap target creature."
2/3

Wulrag, One with the Forge
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier (m)
When ~ enters the battlefield, search library for an equipment and put into play attached to ~.
Equipment you control are indestructable.
3/3

Heated Blade
Artifact - Equipment (c)
: Equipped creature gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
Eqip

Nipur Butcher
Creature - Human (c)
Smithing - Equipped creatures you control have lifelink.
3/2


Thoughts and opinions?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Ok, I'm on board with this theme. Some exciting designs. The legendary is super cool, would it be too OP to change it to "equipped creatures you control are indestructible"?

I think a lot of the numbers are off.
* +0/+2 seems too much for the common.
* Heated Blade costs a whopping 6 mana for the first +2/+0, which is pretty unexciting rate.
* Nipur Butcher has the potential to be annoying in multiples, since teamwide lifelink is such a stupid ability, I think we have alllearned from Whip of Erebos. The payoff is fine, but it should not be a common.
* Both the common and the uncommon CDE design have double strike. Since I love the uncommon design, and think it's exciting, I would find something else for the common.
* Hook Crafter looks white?
* Thunder Axe is not blue at all.

We can squabble over details, the most important thing is, I like the mechanical identity you've built!

Thunder Axe 2.0
Artifact - Equipment (U)
Equip -
Whenever equipped creature attack, target creature can't block this turn.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to an opponent, draw a card.

Now that's an UR equipment

Lightning Squad
Creature - Human Artificer
Flying, vigilance
Cycling
3/2

Much like Khans of Tarkir put morph on the common CDE creatures, I think we should put out smoothing mechanic (i.e. cycling) on our commons as well. Other than that they can be simple designs.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Motion to include white card advantage in the set!

Veteran Steelshaper
Creature - Human Soldier (U)
When Veteran Steelshaper enters the battlefield, you may search your library for an equipment card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
2/2

More smithing designs... I think the simpler designs should grant the ability they have themselves.

Eager McEagerson
Creature - Human Soldier (U)
Haste
Smithing - Equipped creatures you control have haste.
1/1

Swordcloner
Creature - Human Artificer (R/M)
Smithing - Whenever an equipped creature deals combat damage to an opponent, create a copy of each equipment attached to that creature.
3/4

 

[ravnic]

Yeah, the cards are definitely not thought though completely, just wanted to settle for a direction, I'm glad you like it

I love the idea to have the 3-colored common for each wedge have cycling, I'm on board.

Oh, and @sorrynametaken, we could use coordinate for the mardu faction still theoretically

 

[ravnic]

Didn't you have that invaders/swarm idea for the / faction, Ondee?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Didn't you have that invaders/swarm idea for the / faction, Ondee?

Yep, I did! Looks like a good fit mechanically in those colors as well Also, nice UR overlap with the equipment faction, as building multiple creatures is good with equipment!

 

[ravnic]

I'm down for it. We should probably make them really intelligent insect people, so they fit the blue centered scheme. Could you post a few example of cards and maybe rough flavor guidelines for us?

 

[ravnic]

Just came to my mind: With Tame, Smithing and Swarm we'd have 3 creature keywords already. Cycle is neutral, but we should add at least one spell keyword.

One of my all time favorites that never saw much of print is Retrace. We could consider this for / and make them care about lands (in your graveyard) in different ways. In addition to retrace they could not only animate lands (when they die in combat, you'd also fill your yard with lands) but also return them to play. All these tricks.

I'm not quite sure yet how they synergize with The Khunda Tribes and the Insect Invaders, but retrace is such a flexible, fun keyword. Just like jump-start synergized with boros because the effects were useful for them, we could just print retrace cards, that help the other faction's game plans.

Retrace is also a really nice flood insurance mechanic for any limited environment.

EDIT: Oh, animated lands help you tame beasts because they add power with your land drops! And the swarm mechanic likes a lot of mana, with a land based deck would naturally generate! This could also indicate two sub themes for 2-color pairs already with "power matters" for and Ramp for ! I like that!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I'm down for it. We should probably make them really intelligent insect people, so they fit the blue centered scheme. Could you post a few example of cards and maybe rough flavor guidelines for us?

The Chinri are a race of hyper-intelligent, man-size <enter predatory insect type that we can find a lot of anthropomorphic art for, and doesn't always have wings, because flying in green is problematic> that seek to enslave other intelligent races, both for food and for sport. Their society places high value on both mental and physical prowess and their greatest champions excel at both.

Jik-Set, the Pinnacle
Creature - Insect Warrior (R/M)
Whenever you draw a card, ~ gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
Whenever ~ attacks, you may have it fight target creature an opponent controls. If that creature dies this turn, draw a card.
4/4

Chinri Hatcher
Creature - Insect Scout (U)
Flying
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
3/3

Chinri Swarmer
Creature - Insect Warrior (C)
Swarm
~ gets +1/+1 for each other (Insect/Warrior/creature?) you control.
1/1

Chinri Bonecaster
Creature - Insect Wizard (C)
Swarm
When ~ enters the battlefield, draw a card, then discard a card.
2/1

^^ Crossover with retrace.dec!

Chinri Bruiser
Creature - Insect Warrior (C)
Swarm
Trample
5/3

Chinri Transmuter
Creature - Insect Wizard (R)
Swarm
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may discard a card. If you do, search your library for a card with the same card type, reveal it, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
2/2

Chinri Pinger
Creature - Insect Wizard (U)
Swarm
: ~ deals 1 damage to any target.
1/1

 

[ravnic]

I love this. Awesome.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Rampant Loam
Sorcery
Retrace
Return a land card from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.

 

[ravnic]

The nature folk of Ghumata

The Ghumata Elves are the natives of Akeztan, living in the lush jungles centuries before humans or other species discovered the continent and made it their home too. The Ghumata are sceptical of all these intruders, and they fight them whenever they try to harm their forests, which is why most of the other inhabitants are living in the Steppe or the Mountains. The Ghumata have incredible knowledge in terms of flora and fauna. They know which plants heal and which kill. Most noteable, their shamans have mastered powerful magic involving the forces of nature. They praise the untamed beasts of Akeztans wilderness as god like entities, which is why they have hatred for the Khunda tribes, who recklessly enslave the beasts.