General Breaking Singleton

Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Tyrole said:
Seems pretty similar to the rest of the lists, though I have found double DRS to work well so far. A little extra graveyard control can help keep those decks in check, plus it's just an awesome card.

Looks like a lot of you are running triple pod. I have had a really hard time getting a pod deck to come together in my cube (as in, it never has). Is 3 the magic number for that to have a chance to happen?
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Mardu Woe-Reaper will probably work well for the same angle if you like. I'm trying him out because I still had elite vanguard in my list.

Pod is really good, but the main problem I've found is it's hard to draft: You need to pay careful attention to your curve, so if you rock a more casual crowd people might not be up for thinking that much about their picks.
The thing is it doesn't take up much space, and since it synergizes with the kind of creatures most people want to run anyways, the upside is huge.

shamizy said:
I haven't yet had the nut double Blood Artist deck pop up yet. Most of my players play EDH, so they value him pretty highly b/c they realize how powerful the effect is. If I see it happen more frequently and it becomes oppressive, I'll definitely swap one out b/c it definitely seems nutty with a recursion engine ala Feeder/Crawler.

I guess the consensus here is that multiple Champion is awesome, definitely gonna include it in my next update. I've wanted to emulate Jason's Steppe Lynx package for a while to push aggro a bit more, but I just don't have the fetchland density yet to pull it off. It's probably the best way for me to push non-Black aggro forward in general. I was completely ignoring Experiment One all this time, but he'd be pretty awesome a a two-of to get some form of Gx Aggro going, especially with the new Warden of the First Tree. Selesnya Humans with Warden/Ooze/Champion? I might be interested in bumping up my Bloodsoaked Champions to 2 once I get the 2nd Champion of the Parish in there.

I had gone double Pyromancer/double Delver for a while, but the deck only came together once for me. I''m kind of afraid to put it back together b/c of all the new Prowess guys I've added recently. I don't think the 2nd Delver will be back, but I do love Pyromancer and token producers so I'll likely find a slot for him.

@Onderzeebot, I really love Enchantress type decks (in EDH I run Karametra Enchantress), so I could definitely see myself doubling up on Eidolons in the near future as well. GB Constellation is one of my favorite Standard decks to come out in the last year, would love to see a similar effect work in my environment. Gonna look into more non-creature forms of ramp to include. I'm guessing that you've extended it through Abzan since you're building around wedges. What white enchantments are you running?

@Tyrole, I've had 4 at one point, but that seemed to be too much in a 360 shell. Since going to 3, it's been way more awesome. You pretty much only need two to really get it going. Three is usually overkill unless you have a super sick chain lined up. Seeing 1 every 120 cards seems about right to me.

Additionally, to deal with multiples of creatures getting out of hand, I've had good success with a singleton Sever the Bloodline. 4 mana is a fair amount to exile multiple creatures in one shot, comes through pretty much all the time and has Flashback which is super sweet. It's actually been fantastic in dealing with all the recursive shenanigans and cleaning up a mucked up board post Grave Titan.
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Bloodsoaked Champion is a nice altrenate gravecrawler. I like that it's easier to enable and a human (Champion of the parish!), and more color friendly (There's few nonblack zombies), but has a lower ceiling.
Double Blood artist will probably be really fun until someone starts complaining that they can't attack because if a single trade happens they take 4 and get fogged, though it will be hella fun from the drivers seat.

Honestly I don't actually advocate actually putting in full on green aggro support, since while the creatures will be fine you don't really have a reason to be a green aggro (Other than overrun which is horrible when behind) deck like red has with burn, black has with discard/removal, white has with armageddon and a pile of other things, etc. He's a fine creature, but I've got him in for +1/+1 counter support, not because I want 13 forests in my aggro decks.

Double Pyromancer + Prowess is super sweet, not overpowered at all. Heartily recomment, A+, would cast volcanic hammer again.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
You know, as they've printed more cards that have plugged the holes in most Cube lists -- one-drops and cheap red creatures, largely -- I've been moving away from having so many multiples. Obviously having 4 Gravecrawlers is way better than having Carnophage, Sarcomancy, Pulse Tracker, Gravecrawler, but is it better than having two Gravecrawlers? The more multiples there are, the fewer possibilities there are, combinatorically -- and this is a real design detriment that is only sometimes exceeded by how sweet Birthing Pod and Gravecrawler are, and how much richer to draft and play a flat power curve is. In less abstract terms, I see Wadds' list, for example, and wonder how much one can really mix and match Ajani's Pridemates -- how many decks do they fit in? I have no interest in drafting "the Pridemate deck" more than once or twice. I guess my concern relates to the ideas of "themes" and "archetypes," which if too well-defined, too obvious, can throttle replay value.

Anyway, all my multiples are below, I'd be super-interested to see what everyone else is doing these days.











as well as 3 of each ZEN fetch, 2 of each ONS fetch, 2 of each shock. as far as I can tell, good mana has no design drawback.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
2. However we usually play Westchester draft and it takes both of your picks that round to take it, so there is a tradeoff.

The first category are all around good cards that lots of decks want, the second are more poisonous cards that specific decks want two of for better consistency, but have lower overall demand.

I'm probably going to running 2 portent in separate slots next update.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, I mean, I agree about the Pridemates. They're not in my list currently. But I had fun the couple times I played the deck. It was a pretty cheap archetype to install too, price wise.
 
yan

yan

transformed my average cube
six brainstorms is fun

2 champion parish
2 woe reaper
2 steppe lynx
2 rest angel
2 day of judgment

2 delver
6 brainstorm
2 show n tell

3 bloodsoaked champion
3 gravecrawler
2 reanimate

3 stromkirk noble
2 young pyromancer
2 sneak attack

4 experiment one
2 life from the loam

2 mana vault
2 grim monolith

http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/844
 
yan

yan

better outside of the Bx deck
feels less worse when didnt draft or draw those extra zombies
liliana made a damn fine zombie those put on a smothering pace when it comes together


has anyone tried the pridemate package post frf yet way better triggers opened up
something like 2 kitchen finks 2 brutal hordechief 2 soulfire grandmaster 4 woe reapers
 
shamizy

shamizy

I like the Pridemate package, run two of them. It's just such a convenient and simple subtheme to implement. I really love boards with an Ooze and Pridemate ready to just wreck someone's shit at instant speed.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
yan said:
transformed my average cube
six brainstorms is fun
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Yeah, I didn't expect it to be as fun as it was. I started with 3 and was just like "what if there were more?". People take them highly and in diverse deck types, and usually they get spread out among 4 drafters, which isn't something that could ever be said about Crawler or Pod. Also they have lots of synergies, which is nice.
 
shamizy

shamizy

Rasmus Källqvist said:
Seriously though havent the pridemates gotten if not a lot at least some extra support these last two sets?
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Yeah, there is just a ton of incidental lifegain that makes the Pridemates so much better than you'd ever think. I have double Finks and Ooze as well, which just make the GW Lifegain deck even sweeter whenever it comes together. It's good to see it every now and then amidst the Pod and Black-Aggro decks.
 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

I actually think it's a great example of how to design those "whoa, look I've got tribal!" happenstance themes in a cube. It's not something that is particularly revolutionary on this board but its nice to have something to point to more than just "look they're all humans!" (even though I like that one a lot, it just feels less clever)


Jason Waddell said:
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be as fun as it was. I started with 3 and was just like "what if there were more?". People take them highly and in diverse deck types, and usually they get spread out among 4 drafters, which isn't something that could ever be said about Crawler or Pod. Also they have lots of synergies, which is nice.
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for added bonus synergies

edit: and guess what, a lot of those in the first quote happen to be humans! Now we're thinking with bleeding themes together.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Okay, I will admit I haven't really looked at the latest visual spoiler. One of my biggest problems with the archetype was that there wasn't sufficient diversity of lifegain effects outside of the 2CMC slot.

Probably what we needed was to have enough incidental gain to let pridemates be a 2x, as 3x felt a little heavy (unless you are going to squadron things. or... I wouldn't mind there being, say, a third Pridemate in the ULD :p)
 
CML

CML

Contributor
i am not in favor of double finks. nobody passes that card and it's one of your very best first picks
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Finks is insanely good. Even if you have no way to abuse him. Throw him in a blink deck or a +1/+1 counter theme and it's borderline unfair.
 
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