General Breaking Singleton

[ahadabans]

I do also need to know what we all mean by better here

Here's the thing with Finks for me. It's well above the curve as far as what you should get for a hybrid card. And because it's a hybrid, it is a wonderful early pick because you are not locked into a specific color combination like with a gold card, and it's even more flexible than a mono colored card. So I just feel like you have a ton of flexibility with it. Add that to the fact that this card is extremely good all by itself and damn near busted with an engine. So yeah, I would not double up on this card personally.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Here's the thing with Finks for me. It's well above the curve as far as what you should get for a hybrid card. And because it's a hybrid, it is a wonderful early pick because you are not locked into a specific color combination like with a gold card, and it's even more flexible than a mono colored card. So I just feel like you have a ton of flexibility with it. Add that to the fact that this card is extremely good all by itself and damn near busted with an engine. So yeah, I would not double up on this card personally.

I'm just curious: I don't double up on either card. Finks trading with 2 threats while gaining 4 is a harsh pill to swallow, but then again it's so easy to cast the aggro decks will take it too since it's such a good attacker as well. In this respect it kind of balances itself out by being so good.

Courser on the other hand is a harder creature to cast, but 4 toughness is a lot and while it's synergy with ajani's pridemate is sound, so is control decks having extra cards, life, and a large cheap blocker.

 

[ahadabans]

I like courser, so I'd run both it and Finks. I think that's the right way to go if you are pushing the life gain theme. Running two finks feels a bit heavy handed to me. But I don't think it's black and white.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Finks is pretty close to the windmill slammiest first pick in my cube. High power level, flexible mana cost, supports archetypes, fills holes, fucks over aggro, its the total package. I definitely don't want two, mostly because I really wouldn't want to see two appear in the same list.

 

[shamizy]

I've got 2 Finks and I haven't had any issues at all. Then again, I have enough removal tailored to deal with Gravecrawlerthat also applies to Finks that it works out. On curve it's great, but once you hit 4-5 mana, pretty much every color has better things to do that can quickly outclass whatever Finks has done to that point. It's a nice value card, but I don't see it as wholly powerful tbh. That might change if I see a nutty double-Finks Lifegain deck, but that hasn't been the case yet.

 

[ahadabans]

Finks with the green curse is all kinds of wrong. You can definitely break that card if you build around it. Exile effects certainly help though. I should probably run more of them than I do.

Edit: I'm not running either curse anymore because they are un-fun in multiplayer. Whoever gets cursed just gets screwed.

 

[shamizy]

Yeah, I don't run Green Curse for exactly. I play a lot of EDH with my friends and I've seen the gross things that Green Curse can do. Bitterblossom + Green Curse was dsigusting. It's just too easy to gain value off it. My exile suite consists of the following:



And I'm probably going to try out a copy of Reality Shift sometime soon. I feel like Finks is too good of a card to not double up on when it provides support for so many archetypes and slots itself into so many decks. If someone gets two of them somehow then good on them, but I think that since it's so good that there would be a few others interested in drafting it at the table.

 

[ahadabans]

That's a nice suite. I think I'm going to slot all of those red ones into my cube. I'm looking to revamp my red burn cards anyway, and those will be very powerful in my cube due to all the emphasis of recurring threats.

Not a fan of swords to plowshare though. It does too much for too little. Path at least has a very real negative attached to it.

 

[yan]

thats too centralizing
relic of progentius and pillar of flame are weak
sever bloodline and utter end are costly
anger is weak on splash

better off running the decks strategy and own good stuff cards

 

[Eric Chan]

Pacifism effects work perfectly well on this class of creatures, too, as well as any annoying Gravecrawler shenanigans.



edit: ugh what has Gatherer done why are some of the images bigger than others suddenly

 

[shamizy]

thats too centralizing
relic of progentius and pillar of flame are weak
sever bloodline and utter end are costly
anger is weak on splash

better off running the decks strategy and own good stuff cards

Going good stuff on everything blows, there's like no decision making. I'd prefer having environments that lead to cool decks than just mash up everything good and call it a day. Gameplay >>> Power every single time. You need sideboard cards in a draft, not everything has to be a first pick or maindeckable. I'd rather have people think about whether a card is useful or not in certain situations that just jam everything good they drafted into their deck.

Relic is a damn good sideboard card. I don't expect it maindeck at all (unless UB Tezz or something), but in matches where it's relevant, it puts in a ton of work. Pillar is perfectly playable in the right environment, especially ones with multiple Gravecrawler. It carries its weight in certain matchups, exile is surprisingly relevant. Sever is costly, but it can fix up a really shitty situation, especially when a board is flooded with tokens. I also love flashback. I don't have a cube where people should just play good stuff all day everyday b/c that's boring. I'd much rather try out niche cards that can be good in certain situations and certain decks. More decision, more interesting games.

They've all worked for me thus far, every single card that I listed.

 

[Diakonov]

I'm not running either curse anymore because they are un-fun in multiplayer. Whoever gets cursed just gets screwed.

That's pretty ironic given what they were designed for.

Kitchen Finks is exactly the right kind of first pick to have in cube. It's a strong but fair card that keeps your options wide open.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Relic is a damn good sideboard card. I don't expect it maindeck at all (unless UB Tezz or something), but in matches where it's relevant, it puts in a ton of work.

What do we think about running sb cards in cube? I don't really like Relic because its either narrow or a bit of a blowout.

 

[shamizy]

What do we think about running sb cards in cube? I don't really like Relic because its either narrow or a bit of a blowout.

I don't explicitly support Reanimator, so it's been fine here. I really like SB cards in general though, they're nice to have around. It's really good pulling out that Nature's Claim to deal with a troublesome Pod or Bitterblossom that could just overrun you otherwise. It makes for more interesting G3s if it gets to that point. I don't think you should go too deep on it though, only when it makes sense. Looking over my list, I think these are the only clear sideboard cards:



They're just really solid and fair in matchups you would bring them in. I like that most of them are capable of keeping a really good UB Tezz, Birthing Pod or Constellation deck in check b/c otherwise those decks could just run away with games once they're set up.

 

[Laz]

I don't like Relic at all. It either goes 13th-15th and randomly hoses people, or the drafter who is heavily invested in the graveyard hates it out as a mid-pick. Deathrite, Scavenging Ooze and 2/1 Human Woe-rrior are much more palatable graveyard hate.

 

[CML]

I don't like Relic at all. It either goes 13th-15th and randomly hoses people, or the drafter who is heavily invested in the graveyard hates it out as a mid-pick. Deathrite, Scavenging Ooze and 2/1 Human Woe-rrior are much more palatable graveyard hate.

Yeah Relic was a classic example of me "trying too hard" with design -- I think at its worst this theme sported Trinket Mage, Seat of the Synod in the Funsies Land Draft, and a bunch of unplayable artifacts.

Chris: too good to be good, if that helps

 

[Chris Taylor]

I like the idea of sideboard cards, but not ones that are so all or nothing.

I like more the idea of boarding in something like river boa against someone with a pile of removal, rather than boarding in red elemental blast, you know?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

River Boa is perfectly serviceable in the maindeck, I wouldn't really call that a sideboard card. I would, in general, only include sideboard cards that are answers you need or cards that are good and interesting to sideboard versus a wide swath of archetypes. Seal of Cleansing is a good example (and good with constellation to boot), or something like Plummet. Color-specific hate never strikes my fancy, and while I cubed Relic of Progenitus for a long while, I think there's finally enough incidental graveyard hate that I don't need to do that anymore.

 

[Chris Taylor]

River Boa is perfectly serviceable in the maindeck, I wouldn't really call that a sideboard card. I would, in general, only include sideboard cards that are answers you need or cards that are good and interesting to sideboard versus a wide swath of archetypes. Seal of Cleansing is a good example (and good with constellation to boot), or something like Plummet. Color-specific hate never strikes my fancy, and while I cubed Relic of Progenitus for a long while, I think there's finally enough incidental graveyard hate that I don't need to do that anymore.

Exactly! I love sideboard cards that improve the matchup, but aren't useless outside of it. Nobody is ever maindecking plummet G1, and while you can have a cube where seal of cleansing gets thrown in the main G1, My cube is intentionally designed that there's no need.

Maybe I'm using the wrong terms or something; I don't want cards that are purely sideboard cards in my cube.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Yeah, my cube is probably designed so that Seal of Cleansing is maindeckable. Not because there's must-kill enchantments or artifacts, but because almost every deck will pick up playable ones, so there will often be targets in your opponent's deck. Plummet isn't in my cube, but it is a card I wouldn't mind drafting if I was in green. It is after all an efficient and solid removal spell versus the right decks. I also like that it isn't crippling hate, like CoP: Red (or Swords of X and Y).

 

[ahadabans]

I agree with everyone here. Purely side board only hate type cards (red elemental blast) feel like a bandaid to me. If your meta needs that, I feel like there are bigger balance issues.

I also try not to run narrow cards which are only good in a few match ups. I've even started to cut the ETB dudes which kill artifacts/enchantments if they only get one or the other. Because sometimes they are grey ogres and that's just not cool for a cube card. Manic Vandal doesn't do enough while Reclamation Sage does. My 2 cents on that anyway.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Then again, if you do run artifacts that might be troublesome (you know, equipment and stuff), Manic Vandal might just be the tool red needs. It's still in my cube, and honestly it's never a dead card. People routinely underestimate its impact.

 

[Eric Chan]

I love bodies that double as incidental hate cards, like Qasali Pridemage, Wickerbough Elder, and Acidic Slime. What's missing is some sorta Reclamation Sage in mono-white. There's Leonin Relic-Warder and Kor Sanctifiers, but I kinda hate both of them.

 

[ahadabans]

I've had a few games where the only target for my Manic Vandal was my own Bonesplitter. So it was worse than a gray ogre. It was a card that read "this card is effectively exiled from the game but still sitting in your hand".

Reclamation Sage is a billion times better than that card for the word MAY alone, not to mention it has twice as many targets.

In a powered environment or one with a heavy presence of equipment, then yeah he's probably never going to be bad. But I'm really not a fan of that guy. Interestingly enough though, I sort of like the echo vandal. Because he's a 4/1 and that can do damage if ignored. I don't run that one anymore either though. But I'd run him before manic.

 

[ahadabans]

All of those guys listed by Eric are way better than Manic vandal because they all hit both enchantments and artifacts and most of them are flexible in when you use that ability.