[Design/Construction] Lets build the Scuttlemutt Cube!

Laz

Developer
Yes...finally, these are great.

How is draining whelk in your environment? I'm a little surprised to see it there because I remember you saying earlier that the cube could be very fast

Oh, it isn't great. It got played one time, but it was very much a win-more play. An awkward feature (bug?) of this cube is that despite a reasonable low average CMC, there are quite a lot of pretty low-impact expensive spells. A lot of them are circumvented by having suspend, but there is a lot of fat at the top there. Draining Whelk is a kind of interesting +1/+1 counter card, but falls into that fatty expensive top layer. I have been meaning to give the +1/+1 counter more love with some of the Abzan cards from Khans, but I haven't actually spent the time to look at the cuts and adds, despite it being on my to-do for months now.
 

Laz

Developer
Ok, Christmas holidays. Now, rather than do the difficult things on my to-do list (I told my girlfriend I would build a corner-cabinet...), I think it is time to knock the 'update my cubes' off.

I don't really have a strict process for updating cubes, normally there are a bunch of cards that I haven't been happy with, and a bunch I want to try out, and then children's cartoon style they all go into a whirling brawl and some number are left standing at the end, retaining or obtaining a place in the list.

There has been an issue with a class of cards which cost too much for their impact. Mana cost is an interesting factor in this cube, as there are a number of effects that either provide options which keep cards relevant at different stages of the game, or alter the stage at which certain effects are accessible.
The primary cause of the latter effect is how colour intensive many of the cards are. The Thoctars, Genjus and Reckoners of this cube require some quite significant drafting and/or deck building contortions to be cast on curve. I personally think these factors are really interesting, and enjoy how they play out. These types of cards cannot be too prevalent, but expensive colour intense cards do need to provide a pretty big impact. In this regard, the Invasion block dragons have been a mixed bag. Rith has been insane, Oros has been fine, and Darigaaz has been mediocre. While a 6/6 flyer is fine, the effect is very marginal, since hands tend to be smaller by that time, and if the hands aren't small, then Darigaaz doesn't do a lot to break open the game. Maelstrom Archangel likewise hasn't done a lot to impress.
Another class of cards which aim to be relevant at multiple stages of the game are those cards with Suspend and Bestow (also Kicker, but there is very little of that). I like these two mechanics a lot, although while Bestow is costed pretty much on the curve, Suspend seems to be a little over-costed for the flexibility. Suspending most of the spells is fantastic, but casting them is... underwhelming. Ivory Giant may as well not have a casting cost, since paying 7 for a 3/4 pseudo-Falter is not an appealing proposition, while getting it on turn 5 with Haste and mana still up is fantastic. I just wish that there were more cards which interacted with Suspended cards, while not interacting with only Suspended cards. Maybe Venser's Diffusion might be worth testing, but 3 mana Boomerang without a body is uninspiring.
The set of cards which do too little for their cost are mostly expensive cards which I saw linked to one theme or another, but really don't have the impact, even with much of the synergy. Cards which ought to be on the chopping block for this reason are cards like Regal Force, Draining Whelk and Plaguemaw Beast.

There are a whole swathe of cards that I want to try out, as Khans added the Outlast mechanic to the Abzan clan which ought to play quite well with the +1/+1 counter theme.
Cards I want to test in this vain:

Disowned Ancestor is actually an interesting one in this list, as the others look to be about creating counter-based beatdown decks, but at present, counter-based decks often end up more controller-y than aggro, so having something that can block well is a big positive.

This is a card that I am pretty sure will be really bad, but is an interesting +1/+1 counter engine. Maybe he needs to be adjusted to be more like High Sentinels of Arashin? Maybe be a bear with 'Fungal Behemoth's gets +1/+1 for each other creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it.'?
Another card I am excited to try is Chasm Skulker. It likely takes the spot of Draining Whelk, and makes the triple Brainstorm a little terrifying as a combat trick.
 

Laz

Developer
Adds and cuts ended up looking like this:
Adds:



Cuts:


There were a couple of cuts and adds that were not explained in detail in the previous post. Unified Will wasn't working out, that kind of tempo-y archetype wasn't really manifesting itself effectively. Traumatic Visions is a stand in for that at the moment, just to see how desirable having access to Basic Landcycling is. I find myself constantly having to resist the Lucre-like urge to simply add as many cards which either cycle or say 'draw a card' on them as possible. I was umming and erring about Snakeform for ages...

Goblin Razerunners is an almost straight swap for Lightning Reaver. Lightning Reaver wasn't being drafted heavily, so I thought this option might be slightly more palatable.

Something to watch: Introduced a quite a bit of evasion in this update, need to watch it.

Other cards that haven't been working out, but survived this round:
Blue-heroic
Faithless Looting (no graveyard support)
Two Deathrites has been a little much
Leech Bonder
Blessing of the Nephilim (Equipment solving the Aura problem, how droll)
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I feel your pain about suspend. So many of the non-alternate casting costs of cards are so over budgeted as to be useless (My personal favorite is ancestral visions. I know why it literally CAN'T be cast, but come on. I would totally even pay 6-7 for just the option.)

It's most of the reason my cube has custom cards in it, to be honest :p Slight tweaks on existing cards.

As for suspend, I've sometimes considered Fury Charm. Shatter is nice on a modal spell, +1/+1 and trample does a decent searing blaze impression sometimes (though usually when you're winning) plus bonus surprise suspend cards.
Sadly it's been a little too bad, since 2 modes are quite niche, and +1/+1 is just too small a bonus to rely on as the main mode of a spell, but perhaps it's worth considering.

I'd love to hear about these counter based control decks. the only good way I've found to tie proliferate and counter based synergy to control decks leans waaaaay to heavily on everflowing chalice, and the number of those needs to be tightly controlled. It's hard to balance having enough proliferate cards running around that people feel they can afford some accidental synergy when you have to consider that some ramp deck might have half their spells be really undercosted for having the additional text of "and you basically rampant growth"

I tried Ion Storm but it felt really slow, and (perhaps due to everflowing chalice being so insane) hard to utilize anywhere but aggro: eating the excess counters off the odd stromkirk noble and gore-house chainwalker
 

Laz

Developer
Oooooo.... FRF has permanents that care about colours!

First, the creature cycle:

Bizarrely, of these, I don't actually like very many. Marang River Prowler is obviously the most interesting, but I have actually made a conscious effort to make the graveyard largely irrelevant for this cube (There is enough on-board complexity as it is), so I am going to skip over it. Hungering Yeti and Abzan Kin-guard are pretty unexciting (How much more exciting is Cliffrunner Behemoth at {3}{G}?). This leaves Battle Brawler and Wandering Champion as potential playables. A generic 3/1 in White is probably fine, but the looting doesn't feel in-place given the graveyard ignorance mentioned above. A 3/2 first strike though? That sounds great!

Aside: By the tenuous metric that this cube uses to determine 'playables per colour', here is where we are at:
White - 61
Blue - 59
Red - 61
Black - 58
Green - 60

As such, there is a bit of room to manoeuvre with cuts and adds across colours. Here I think Battle Brawler comes in for Mudbrawler Cohort, who might have been exciting as a 2/2 haste that became a 3/2, but is so unexciting as a 1/1 that becomes an on-curve creature...

The other cycle that cares about colours is this one:


I think these are a far more elegant way of handling the Fists of the Demigod cycle, though not being multi-coloured in their own right does hurt them a little. At present, I am running the Boros, Rakdos, Gruul, Selesnya and Golgari ones, so it is an easy swap to try out this whole cycle.

Awkwardly, the tri-land cycle being complete is kind of complicated, because I don't want 5 more lands (the density of lands is really really high already), and I like all of the lands I do have in there. I am still not sure how I want to tackle it going forward, as the cycle of 5 Alara tri-lands was complimented by the cycle of 5 Vivid lands to make up a full 10. At this stage, my preferred option looks to be cutting the tri-lands completely and finding 5 other lands I do want to run.

Now I just have to figure out what fits in place of the themes and cards that aren't working...
 
What effect would it have on the Scuttlemutt cube if you replaced "color" with "color identity"? (As in, each card that cares about color looks at every mana symbol on the card, not just the casting cost or card border.) Could that be interesting, or would it just break the game in half?
 

Laz

Developer
Hmm. I don't know what happens. A lot of the choices that I have made are based upon certain cards being truly multi-coloured, and other cards being nominally multi-coloured. There are actually not a lot of cards in this cube that become multi-coloured when we equate colour and colour-identity. (Crypt Champion, Viashino Slaughtermaster, Paragon of the Amesha, Swirling Spriggan, Etched Monstrosity and Composite Golem, also possibly the Bringers, but I have no idea how that works).

Since this number is pretty small, I would imagine that very little happens. Transguild Courier gets a lot less special.

However, were I to design this Cube again, changing the definition of multi-coloured to have this effect, the biggest impact would be in the choice of 1-drops. Since Hybrid 1-drops add explicit support to the Alara-blades, being able to use colour-identity 1-drops would add some flexibility. Wide availability of multi-coloured activated abilities probably has some impact on how cards like Civic Saber are valued, but this is not actually any different from the impact of Hybrid mana.
I do wonder a little about how people perceive off-coloured activated abilities. If I recall, most of the cards like that are designed as though the ability will always be on, not as a 'nice bonus'. The Shards Battlemage cycle are 3-mana 2/2s that have to tap to actually do anything. I am hardly about to jump on a Naya Battlemage if it is likely to give me a Grey Ogre a lot of the time. I think the card needs to be more than the ability, to have a fine 'front-side', with a neat, but not too powerful activated ability. The Uncommon creature cycle in Born of the Gods was a reasonable example of this (Akroan Phalanx, Graverobber Spider, Odunos River Trawler were the passable ones).
I keep coming back to Lingering Souls as the best example of off-coloured activations that are 'nice if you can swing it off a splashed dual', which is the short way of saying, they might scrape in as a 22nd ish playable in a deck that couldn't flash it back, but would cement its place in a deck with 1-2 free Black sources. I mean, Souls is ok as just two 1/1 Spirits and adds value in the late-game if you are just dabbling in Black, or is a really good card in true BW. Aside: Missed opportunity in Shards-block, a creature that had an Unearth cost in a different colour to its casting cost.

TLDR: I assume my drafters assess cards on a 'likely outcome given where we are in this draft-case', and I think my design assessment is closer to average-case, which doesn't actually line up with the former.
 

Laz

Developer
Had a sweet draft of this last night.

4c Domain Ramp










P1P1: Tribal Flames
P1P3: Tribal Flames
I might have an issue (or the cube does, I am not sure).
(Aside, is this Pack/Pick or Pick/Pack? I used Pack/Pick here)

The deck played out beautifully, though terrifyingly. Basically every game felt flooded, as all of the ramp spells I had in hand just turned into lands. Felt so far behind, just buying time with blockers and spot removal until one of the Etched creatures or Allied Strategies showed up, then the game just felt unloseable as card draw chained into more card draw.
 
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