Jonas 360 Cube

[Laz]

I actually recently swapped my reanimation to White (Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Breath of Life, Miraculous Recovery) after adding the gravecrawler package to Black. Black was just doing too much from the yard, and none of the other colours were having enough graveyard fun. I have only had a couple of drafts since the change, and have thus far only seen value reanimation in White midrange (It was the third Hero of Bladehold that got me dead), but I am interested to see where my drafters take it.

 

[Jonas]

That seems interesting. Would a card like be playable?

 

[Laz]

I did look at that one. It is really interesting, especially in terms of value reanimation. I dont tend to see enough creatures in the yard that I think it would do much, and is terrible in terms of traditional reanimation, as it not only requires 2 fatties in the yard, but you get the worst one and can't reanimate the other one later.
There might be some sort of creature heavy dredge combo deck in which it would be awesome, but I think it requires too many things to come together (high creature density, playing against wraths or having a good way to dump them all into your yard, draw Death or Glory late in the game) to be good in a draft environment.

 

[Jonas]

The interesting thing with putting reanimator in white is that there isn't the same toolbox for just shoveling all of yourvalue into the graveyard as there is in black, but rather a neat way to come back after wraths and similar stuff.

 

[Jason Waddell]

I would read this: http://www.channelfireball.com/home/the-cube-fallacy/
Then ask yourself what you want to do with your Reanimator archetype. My solution is by no means perfect, and is no longer even in my cube, but it's a pretty difficult thing to calibrate in draft in an interactive way.

 

[Jonas]

Yeah,I read that one, and thought about. I might also just remove all of them except mannequin, and keep it as a combat trick.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

That seems fine rereainimation package, though not sure about rescue. I'm running mannequin, servitude, victimize and recurring nightmare (though prob shouldn't). Would recommend victimize or unburial rites instead of rescue. Rites along with return and servitude gives reanimation a bit more of a value theme and makes them more a bit independently useful. Necromancy would probably be fine too.

 

[CML]

rescue from the underworld is really bad

i'm one of the few advocates for "good reanimation spells" on this forum, and i like them because they're strong enough to go in non-reanimator decks, Animate Dead for example is just good (especially against reanimator). no deck is ever "hardcore combo reanimator" either, but having an "unfair" component has been fun over here and am surprised it would be an issue in Jason's Cube, which is even more aggressive. (wadds, buff the reanimator theme and see what happens?)

for a lower power cube, i think you can have either cheap reanimation spells (in order of quality: reanimate, animate dead, exhume, dance of the dead, necromancy, life // death) or you can have entomb (entomb is spectacularly busted as tutor and enabler). basically you can do whatever you want if you don't have entomb, though.

 

[Jason Waddell]

The problem with Reanimator is less of power level and more of consistency. It's a very high-variance archetype, coming together and giving the opponent no real say in the game or durdling around and failing to find its pieces. I dunno about you but I've had 20 power on board on Turn 3 with Reanimator cube decks, which seems fairly "hardcore combo reanimator" style.

For the interested:
T2 Lotleth Troll, discarding Grave Titan and Woodfall Primus, and bringing them back on T3 with Reanimate and Animate Dead.

 

[CML]

it's true that can happen, and that those games suck, but usually it's only one guy and there are a bunch of ways to interact / a bunch of ways for the reanimator dude to bounce back from that, and so on. it's still pretty variant but it's nothing like the Holiday Cube, where it's all very black-and-white ("does he have the counter?"), and I think I enjoy the level of variance it brings to my Cube, but, I'm not sure.

in support of your idea, Junk Reanimator was one of the most skill-intensive decks in last year's Standard -- really a pleasure to play and play against. it's also true that reanimator is one of the most volatile decks in legacy, and therefore one of the most tilting to play and play against. if they don't mull to 5 at least once in our match, i feel gypped.

 

[Jonas]

The level of junk reanimator would be good. Maybe I'll shove rites in again.

I'm going to put in the following:

Cabal therapy, 2x Bloodghast, 2x Gravecrawler, Vedalken Shackles, 2x Gather the Townsfolk, Champion of the Parish, Skirsdag High Priest,Venser Shaper Savant, Consuming Vapors, 4x pod, Thratusk.

Might add Death Cloud.

Give me suggestions for things to cut. I think I'm going to take out the god of the forge and his hammer, and townsfolk instead of rally, but other then that, hit me!

 

[CML]

ugh Vedalken Shackles, the only good thing about Ninja Bear Delver

Helm of Possession is a less miserable variant

 

[Jonas]

Helm is neat, but I want to try out shackles too. I might alternate them in the cube to shake things up.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Trust me shackles is miserable. Really anything that does repeated control magic is

 

[Jonas]

I'll see what I do about shackles.


Is this a real card, or is it too slow? I played it in my sb in legacy pox, and that worked, but that might have been because of my opposition

 

[Jonas]

Changes while the cards are coming in

In:

Gravecrawler Gravecrawler Birthing Pod Birthing Pod Birthing Pod Birthing Pod Consuming Vapors Thragtusk Bloodghast Venser, Shaper Savant Creeping Tar Pit

Out

Hammer of Purphoros Carnophage Vampire Lacerator Elspeth, Sun's Champion Deranged Hermit Cloudgoat Ranger Woodfall Primus Buried Alive Go for the Throat Purphoros, God of the Forge Gifts Ungiven

A little less support for combo reanimator and tokens, a little more for testing out pod.

 

[CML]

Deranged Hermit and Cloudgoat Ranger are pretty good with da pod tho

 

[Jonas]

That they are, I'm taking them out on probation, testing how the games turn out without them.

 

[anotak]

i don't think i've ever played or watched a cloudgoat-less game of magic and wished either player had a cloudgoat ranger in their deck. it is a strong card, but not so offensively strong to be cut for power reasons (except in peasant cubes probably), but it just puts the game in a bad spot. it is much more insidious than game ruining bullshit (balance or something) in that it just inoffensively makes your gameplay worse. cloudgoat ranger just comes over to your house w/ some other friends and eats your food while you arent looking so you aren't really sure who to blame, as opposed to just shitting on your couch.

someone shat on my roommate's couch once

 

[Jason Waddell]

i don't think i've ever played or watched a cloudgoat-less game of magic and wished either player had a cloudgoat ranger in their deck. it is a strong card, but not so offensively strong to be cut for power reasons (except in peasant cubes probably), but it just puts the game in a bad spot. it is much more insidious than game ruining bullshit (balance or something) in that it just inoffensively makes your gameplay worse. cloudgoat ranger just comes over to your house w/ some other friends and eats your food while you arent looking so you aren't really sure who to blame, as opposed to just shitting on your couch.

someone shat on my roommate's couch once

Post of the year.

 

[Changling Bob]

That sums up a lot of my feelings about a lot of popular cube cards that aren't of the GRBS variety

 

[Eric Chan]

Yeah, along with Cloudgoat, Siege-Gang Commander also falls into the Looks Innocent But Really Just Promotes Durdly Midrange Gameplay category of cards. I cut 'em and never looked back.

 

[CML]

"A soul-sucking marriage that obliterates all before it, and, when you've dealt with it, leaves three little bitches behind"

 

[Jonas]

Small update

In

Skirsdag High Priest, Gather the Townsfolk, Gather the Townsfolk, Champion of the Parish, Death Cloud, Shrine of Burning Rage

Out

Animate Dead, Raise the Alarm, Raise the Alarm, Tormod's Crypt, Whip of Erebos, Burning of Xinye

There are now definitely enough humans to play the tribe, and only one of the humans is a bit poison-y. Doomed traveler is crap, but I can't decide if I should double up on Elite Vanguard or Soldier of the Pantheon, or if I should get some other one drop entirely?

Shrine of burning rage to go for more aggro in red. Probably going to cut Wildfire too, see if red control can get by on hellions and ld stapled to creatures.
Deathcloud and Skirsdag High Priest is a bit of experiment, and could definitely go into the same deck.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Skirsdag and Deathcloud both massively disappointed in my cube whenever I tried them. I'm always pretty skeptical of people who claim Deathcloud is an effective cube card.